Why all people agree that is it easy to keep Abigail survival?

[yuntunhemudu]

For me, Abigail is really easy to die because multitasking is really difficult. When facing a powerful bosses, we need to: 1. Hold down F while controlling Wendy's movement, 2. Protect Abigail, 3. Healing Wendy, 4. Healing Abigail. It's not easy to do it all at once, usually I give up 2. protecting Abigail and 4. treating Abigail.

 

I hope Wendy's skill tree could reduce the difficulty in multitasking, but the current skill tree has not been able to achieve this:

Team Spirit is useless. Completing 1. and 3. is already difficult enough for me, and I don't have the extra energy to complete 5. Control Abigail's movement.

The skills related to Elixir and Pipspook are useless. I cannot accomplish 4. Healing Abigail when I focus on 1. and 3. (the shaking time before using the Pan Fluent is too long).

Gestalt Abigail is useless. It was originally intended to reduce the difficulty of 2. Protecting Abigail, but now its effectiveness is too poor.

Shadow Abigail is useless, given Wendy's unsuitability for Dreadstone Helm, I would hardly attempt to kill Werepig. Although shadow Abigail can be strong due to the Murder buff, Abigail cannot survive in my hands.

Blessed Sisturn may be a bit useful, as player tags enhance Abigail's survival abilities. But considering that I don't have enough ability to complete both 2. Protect Abigail and 4. Healing Abigail When I focus on 1. and 3., Abi will still die halfway through the battle.

 

The rest:

The Flower Crown has been set too low for daily use. The role of Gravestone II is not clear.

Overall, I will not spend any skill points on the current skill tree. The difference in proficiency between players is simply too great. When the skill tree is launched, I will delete all of my Wendy's saves. Calm down for a while, then try playing a different role.

[SilverSpoon]

I think you've missed something about Abigail's control...

When same time Wendy and Abigail in danger, I recommend you UnSummon Abigail. You can still use Cure-All or Revenant Restorative and it heal Abigail while she's UnSummonen, so you can focus on controlling Wendy while Abigail heals.

Abigail Flower has Unsammon command on command wheel at this beta, so it should be easier to use Unsammon on controllers or consoles.

[Dingle]

10 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

I think you've missed something about Abigail's control...

When same time Wendy and Abigail in danger, I recommend you UnSummon Abigail. You can still use Cure-All or Revenant Restorative and it heal Abigail while she's UnSummonen, so you can focus on controlling Wendy while Abigail heals.

Abigail Flower has Unsammon command on command wheel at this beta, so it should be easier to use Unsammon on controllers or consoles.

Escape makes unsummoning easier and safer, too.

Escape does not share a cooldown with soothe or unsummon. So you can use Escape, which gives abby invulnerability, and unsummon during that.

55 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

For me, Abigail is really easy to die because multitasking is really difficult. When facing a powerful bosses, we need to: 1. Hold down F while controlling Wendy's movement, 2. Protect Abigail, 3. Healing Wendy, 4. Healing Abigail. It's not easy to do it all at once, usually I give up 2. protecting Abigail and 4. treating Abigail.

 

I hope Wendy's skill tree could reduce the difficulty in multitasking, but the current skill tree has not been able to achieve this:

Team Spirit is useless. Completing 1. and 3. is already difficult enough for me, and I don't have the extra energy to complete 5. Control Abigail's movement.

The skills related to Elixir and Pipspook are useless. I cannot accomplish 4. Healing Abigail when I focus on 1. and 3. (the shaking time before using the Pan Fluent is too long).

Gestalt Abigail is useless. It was originally intended to reduce the difficulty of 2. Protecting Abigail, but now its effectiveness is too poor.

Shadow Abigail is useless, given Wendy's unsuitability for Dreadstone Helm, I would hardly attempt to kill Werepig. Although shadow Abigail can be strong due to the Murder buff, Abigail cannot survive in my hands.

Blessed Sisturn may be a bit useful, as player tags enhance Abigail's survival abilities. But considering that I don't have enough ability to complete both 2. Protect Abigail and 4. Healing Abigail When I focus on 1. and 3., Abi will still die halfway through the battle.

 

The rest:

The Flower Crown has been set too low for daily use. The role of Gravestone II is not clear.

Overall, I will not spend any skill points on the current skill tree. The difference in proficiency between players is simply too great. When the skill tree is launched, I will delete all of my Wendy's saves. Calm down for a while, then try playing a different role.

I just started playing Wendy again, and never played her much. I wouldn't say it's easy to keep Abby alive, it can be pretty stressful.

But in my big playthroughs so far, I think she's only died twice. And one of those was super early game in my first playthrough haha. The other was also early game to something goofy.

She got to 60 or so health a couple times though, but I just did the Escape then Unsummon combo. This even worked on Deadly Brightshades.

The new team spirit commands and easier unsummon alone really help out a lot! They are worth practicing.

[Bumber64]

1 sounds like you're trying to face-tank instead of dodging attacks. Before skill tree, players would move around to position Abi so she wouldn't get hit. I'm not sure how much effort holding down F is for you, but if you're not running around you should be replacing that effort with 2 and 3.

4 is once every 30+ seconds. You can unsummon and it still functions (if you mess up and Abi's health gets too low). If you let Abi die, you can just cure-all then ghastly experience.

[Grove]

1 hour ago, yuntunhemudu said:

1. Hold down F while controlling Wendy's movement, 2. Protect Abigail, 3. Healing Wendy, 4. Healing Abigail. It's not easy to do it all at once, usually I give up 2. protecting Abigail and 4. treating Abigail.

 

I hope Wendy's skill tree could reduce the difficulty in multitasking, but the current skill tree has not been able to achieve this:

Team Spirit is useless. Completing 1. and 3. is already difficult enough for me, and I don't have the extra energy to complete 5. Control Abigail's movement

1- This one is obviously, but don't  always hold the F key. Also, while I don't use it, changing the F key to the space bar might help

2- I have no idea what this means?

3&4- i recommend hotkeys. Both for healing yourself, healing Abby, and switching gear. But I think the limit is 4.

Any extra stuff could be moved to the slots next to your equipment and handled with the mouse

Teamspirit: Never let Abby's flower leave slot 1 in my opinion. W, A, S, D, F, number keys and space bar can be handled with one hand, the other should be on the mouse for teamspirit.

I recommend trying more basic characters as well as doing easier mobs that require handling Abby well. Practice using scare on spiders for example.

Tame beefalo, they'll remove most of the stuff you need to do as Wendy, try fights as them. They'll allow you to learn to handle Abby.

Deerclops is a fairly easy boss. Just cure-all on Abby, tons of armor that will replace itself, hambat. And tank at a campfire. All you will have to do is hold f, heal yourself, and heal Abby. 

This isn't a problem exclusive with Wendy, by the way. Learning to multitask and handle inventory wll help with a lot.Take your time to learn. 

[Mike23Ua]

Abigail staying alive or even summoned 24/7 isn’t how Wendy was intended to be played, And it shouldn’t be how DSTs Wendy is intended to be played either..

Even in Solo DS Before Wendy herself got decent changes & buffs with DSTs updates (such as ability to drink Elixers for effects on herself) Wendy’s Design in Solo DS where she didn’t have ANY OF THAT to Help Her…

Was to know when to summon Abigail for Assistance, and to also know when to Go it Alone by leaving her stored inside her flower.

For DS this allowed the flower to bloom out so that it can summon Abby again, or if the flower was fully bloomed already, it prevented it from going back to not bloomed outward and cooldown.

For DST, you can Summon Abigail as much as you want even if she gets killed every 2 seconds, and she’ll always be available to you without any sort of needing to wait for the flower to bloom back out before you can even summon her for help.

This effectively killed the Poker like playstyle of knowing when to hold ‘em & when to fold ‘em (Aka when to use or not use Abigail)

The only thing you lose in DST by getting Abigail killed every 2 seconds is any potion buffs you applied to her.

The last thing Abigail needs is extreme survivability when Wendy’s entire Design prior to DST- Demanded you learn to not rely on Abigail for EVERY section of the game.

[Steorra]

11 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Abigail staying alive or even summoned 24/7 isn’t how Wendy was intended to be played, And it shouldn’t be how DSTs Wendy is intended to be played either..

I was thought this argument should ended before.

 

If you prefer to play a character without their core feature, or you think "to lose my core feature is another core feature of my character", maybe Wes is more suitable for you. Since Wendy was never a character designed for a challenge called "don't lose my core feature".

[Yaorin yon]

14 hours ago, Mike23Ua said:

Abigail staying alive or even summoned 24/7 isn’t how Wendy was intended to be played, And it shouldn’t be how DSTs Wendy is intended to be played either..

Even in Solo DS Before Wendy herself got decent changes & buffs with DSTs updates (such as ability to drink Elixers for effects on herself) Wendy’s Design in Solo DS where she didn’t have ANY OF THAT to Help Her…

Was to know when to summon Abigail for Assistance, and to also know when to Go it Alone by leaving her stored inside her flower.

For DS this allowed the flower to bloom out so that it can summon Abby again, or if the flower was fully bloomed already, it prevented it from going back to not bloomed outward and cooldown.

For DST, you can Summon Abigail as much as you want even if she gets killed every 2 seconds, and she’ll always be available to you without any sort of needing to wait for the flower to bloom back out before you can even summon her for help.

This effectively killed the Poker like playstyle of knowing when to hold ‘em & when to fold ‘em (Aka when to use or not use Abigail)

The only thing you lose in DST by getting Abigail killed every 2 seconds is any potion buffs you applied to her.

The last thing Abigail needs is extreme survivability when Wendy’s entire Design prior to DST- Demanded you learn to not rely on Abigail for EVERY section of the game.

It seems like you don't remember in the early days of DST, Wendy could summon 600 full health Abigail 24/7, as long as she had enough ready Abigail flowers and killed a creature. In addition, as another person said, Wendy's character has never been "a fragile ghost", but "a sisters who transcends death ties". No one has ever asked Bernie and Shadow Gladiator to be fragile, making Abigail fragile is a bizarre fallacy

[Mike23Ua]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

I was thought this argument should ended before.

 

If you prefer to play a character without their core feature, or you think "to lose my core feature is another core feature of my character", maybe Wes is more suitable for you. Since Wendy was never a character designed for a challenge called "don't lose my core feature".

Are we really doing this again? prior to the current beta yes I would agree with you that Abigail was Wendy’s one and ONLY core feature.

But that is no longer the case: When her beta gave her abilities and skills she can use without needing Abigail by her side.

While it’s debatable how useful those new skills are, I’m going to compare her side by side with Wilson’s skill Tree.

And compared to Wilson’s Skill Tree, even if you completely removed Abigail entirely out of the game… Being able to use the potions on yourself and having a cheaper method of resurrection aren’t things to easily over-look & she STILL Outclasses Wilson. 

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

But that is no longer the case: When her beta gave her abilities and skills she can use without needing Abigail by her side.

I won't argue with you what meaning of the "core"

An interesting simple fact is the poll which showed its result in the screenshot, is happened during this beta (after the wreath patched out).

 

It seems not everyone agree with your opinions.

 

[Echsrick]

6 hours ago, Steorra said:

I won't argue with you what meaning of the "core"

An interesting simple fact is the poll which showed its result in the screenshot, is happened during this beta (after the wreath patched out).

 

It seems not everyone agree with your opinions.

 

i dont agree with your opinions or your polls, what does that make out of me? that i am lying? thats a fools way of thinkin

[Bumber64]

6 hours ago, Steorra said:

An interesting simple fact is the poll which showed its result in the screenshot, is happened during this beta (after the wreath patched out).

It seems not everyone agree with your opinions.

Polls only show where people's opinions are at. They don't amount to proof of any fact. (Without even getting into the fact that the poll doesn't even ask about losing the core feature. For example, Maxwell loses his codex and it burns.)

Only Klei can answer how she was intended to be played. How she "should" be played doesn't have an answer. The definition of "core" is similarly subjective.

In other words, the argument is unlikely to ever be ended.

[Koomin]

I don't really understand the argument that is being made here.  Even if Abigail is Wendy's core feature, why would that mean it should be hard for her to die?  Having core features that need management and skill development to use is very prevalent in this game and makes a lot of sense. 

Are souls Wortox's core feature?  Obviously yes.  If you mismanage your souls can you run out and be weaker than a normal character for the rest of the fight?  Yes.  This is a good thing, because it gives goals and room for improvement and makes it feel actually rewarding when you succeed.  No one is out here devastated about this, and asking for Wortox to get infinite souls because "they might lose their core feature and should go play Wes".

Wendy's core feature is probably Abigail, yes.  Working on keeping her alive and putting in effort and developing skill until you can defeat the enemies with both of you emerging alive and victorious is literally the point and allure of the character.  This fun and sense of achievement is entirely lost if Abigail becomes really hard to die because otherwise "she would lose her core feature and you might as well go play Wes".

A poll showing that Wendy's core feature is Abigail is not at all somehow conclusive to whether Abigail should be hard to kill.

On top of this all, even if Abigail dies you are not "playing as Wes".  If you for some reason didn't bring anything to restore her, which is now super plentiful, and you can't bear continuing the fight without Abigail, you can just leave the fight.  Admitting you lost a battle to a boss is completely fine, and you can come back stronger and wiser for round 2.  Wendy's "core feature" is in fact infinitely resummonable, so just walk away and summon her back and go play a different part of the game for a bit.  Congrats you are no longer "playing as Wes."

[Mike23Ua]

8 hours ago, Steorra said:

I won't argue with you what meaning of the "core"

An interesting simple fact is the poll which showed its result in the screenshot, is happened during this beta (after the wreath patched out).

 

It seems not everyone agree with your opinions.

 

Okay sure we can have this conversation too.. you saying that Wendy’s brand new Skill Tree perks of being able to drink Elixirs for various effects, and easier resurrection with relocatable and hand crafted graves are not “Core Features” for Wendy- Is about like saying that Willows Fire Mage perks and Bernie’s Skill Tree Point investment (mainly the super useful ones like self health regeneration) are also not “Core Features” of Willow.

My point is that your trying to justify wanting (in my opinion quite ridiculous) buffs and survivability to Abigail because it’s Wendy’s only “Core Feature” which now thanks to the Beta.. is False.

Come to think of it… without ANY skill tree point investment, what even IS Wilson’s “Core Feature”? Randomly growing a beard he can’t even store food inside or use for Warmth that only becomes *somewhat useful after you invest skill points into it?

(which again according to your logic.. we can’t count skill point investment as “Core Feature”)

 

[Steorra]

25 minutes ago, Mike23Ua said:

Okay sure we can have this conversation too.. you saying that Wendy’s brand new Skill Tree perks of being able to drink Elixirs for various effects, and easier resurrection with relocatable and hand crafted graves are not “Core Features” for Wendy- Is about like saying that Willows Fire Mage perks and Bernie’s Skill Tree Point investment (mainly the super useful ones like self health regeneration) are also not “Core Features” of Willow.

My point is that your trying to justify wanting (in my opinion quite ridiculous) buffs and survivability to Abigail because it’s Wendy’s only “Core Feature” which now thanks to the Beta.. is False.

Come to think of it… without ANY skill tree point investment, what even IS Wilson’s “Core Feature”? Randomly growing a beard he can’t even store food inside or use for Warmth that only becomes *somewhat useful after you invest skill points into it?

(which again according to your logic.. we can’t count skill point investment as “Core Feature”)

 

Ridiculous to take Wilson tree into a topic of tree balance.

You have other 92 people to talk, argue, discuss. Don't bother me.

56 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Are souls Wortox's core feature?  Obviously yes.

I'm confused that some of you have opinions like this but I never saw you go ask nerf Soul Jar since it give 600% buff to souls upper limit. It's obviously OP and completely removed a core downside of Wortox.

59 minutes ago, Koomin said:

No one is out here devastated about this, and asking for Wortox to get infinite souls because "they might lose their core feature and should go play Wes".

Because they already get enough souls for preventing Wortox become Wes by Soul Jar.

Nerf Soul Jar, or Buff Abi to make them at a same level. Or it is unfair.

 

 

Here's a post for soul jar OP argument. Feel free to join and say Soul Jar is OP and I would go support you.

[Dingle]

17 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Ridiculous to take Wilson tree into a topic of tree balance.

You have other 92 people to talk, argue, discuss. Don't bother me.

Are those people even still on the forum? Wouldn't we have to leave this forum to argue with them? You keep bringing up this poll, but it was taken at the height of the one outside forum brigading this beta forum, for the purpose of gaslighting the developers into over-buffing Wendy.

My favorite was when they tried to rig a poll to make it seem like there were the same number of Wendy players as Walter players. Even the person making the polls laughed, it was far too obvious.

17 minutes ago, Steorra said:

 

I'm confused that some of you have opinions like this but I never saw you go ask nerf Soul Jar since...

Wendy did get major buffs to survival though. Even to Abigail survivability and uptime. Even ignoring Sisturn 3.

That and bringing up other characters is a really tiresome derailment tactic.

At least you're bringing up another character in this skilltree beta, I guess. You haven't mentioned Willow or Wolfgang yet. An improvement.

[Echsrick]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

 

......wow....i dont even know what.....like what i sould....think about you right now....like.......i feel like its gettin you abit over too much about this whole thing realy

[Koomin]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

Ridiculous to take Wilson tree into a topic of tree balance.

You have other 92 people to talk, argue, discuss. Don't bother me.

I'm confused that some of you have opinions like this but I never saw you go ask nerf Soul Jar since it give 600% buff to souls upper limit. It's obviously OP and completely removed a core downside of Wortox.

Because they already get enough souls for preventing Wortox become Wes by Soul Jar.

Nerf Soul Jar, or Buff Abi to make them at a same level. Or it is unfair.

 

 

Here's a post for soul jar OP argument. Feel free to join and say Soul Jar is OP and I would go support you.

If you want to spend time stockpiling resources as Wendy too to avoid having to worry about losing your "core feature", then congrats you also have this ability with revive and heal potions and infinitely resummonable Abigail, no changes at all or differences like you described.  Go crazy.

Beyond that, you ignored like 90% of the comment, including everything discussing why this would be a bad idea for Wendy, and instead focused on one bit about Wortox and linked a Wortox post.  Quoting that whole part for you here below since you seem to have missed it.

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

I don't really understand the argument that is being made here.  Even if Abigail is Wendy's core feature, why would that mean it should be hard for her to die?  Having core features that need management and skill development to use is very prevalent in this game and makes a lot of sense. 

Wendy's core feature is probably Abigail, yes.  Working on keeping her alive and putting in effort and developing skill until you can defeat the enemies with both of you emerging alive and victorious is literally the point and allure of the character.  This fun and sense of achievement is entirely lost if Abigail becomes really hard to die because otherwise "she would lose her core feature and you might as well go play Wes".

A poll showing that Wendy's core feature is Abigail is not at all somehow conclusive to whether Abigail should be hard to kill.

On top of this all, even if Abigail dies you are not "playing as Wes".  If you for some reason didn't bring anything to restore her, which is now super plentiful, and you can't bear continuing the fight without Abigail, you can just leave the fight.  Admitting you lost a battle to a boss is completely fine, and you can come back stronger and wiser for round 2.  Wendy's "core feature" is in fact infinitely resummonable, so just walk away and summon her back and go play a different part of the game for a bit.  Congrats you are no longer "playing as Wes."

 

[Dingle]

Bonus thought:

Wendy also got about 600% faster Mourning Glory generation.

Just from Pipspooks 3, not even counting grave moving to your base. Or even better, to Crab Hermit island or a small lunar island.

Triple the mourning glories or so from a full quest + the quest is twice as fast now.

It's one of the facets of her power creep this update. You just have way, way more elixirs on hand than before.

[Steorra]

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

 

I don't like the Ghastly elixir which completely removed the punishment of Abi's death. I already asked to remove it before.

Abi should have a chance to die, but the chance should not be high for average people. That's why Sisturn III is urgently needed. Though after next change I think it could be enough.

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

Bonus thought:

Wendy also got about 600% faster Mourning Glory generation.

Just from Pipspooks 3, not even counting grave moving to your base. Or even better, to Crab Hermit island or a small lunar island.

Triple the mourning glories or so from a full quest + the quest is twice as fast now.

It's one of the facets of her power creep this update. You just have way, way more elixirs on hand than before.

You're right. I hate current boring MG line. It brings broken power and makes people to criticise them, at the same time it is not fun.

4 hours ago, Dingle said:

but it was taken at the height of the one outside forum brigading this beta forum, for the purpose of gaslighting

This is weird. I was saw Joew said ok with these poll. I don't know where's the gaslight accusations comes.

[Dingle]

18 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This is weird. I was saw Joew said ok with these poll. I don't know where's the gaslight accusations comes.

One of the people back then making polls let me know something weird.

For a Wendy poll, 50+ accounts were made, that then posted to his poll within an hour as their first action.

How weird!

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

6 minutes ago, Dingle said:

One of the people back then making polls let me know something weird.

For a Wendy poll, 50+ accounts were made, that then posted to his poll within an hour as their first action.

How weird!

 

You may report it to mods and I guess mods would do something if it was needed.

Though I personally have saw no a poll has happened same thing as you said.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

You may report it to mods and I guess mods would do something if it was needed.

Though I personally have saw no a poll has happened same thing as you said.

Off top of head, I don't think brigading the forum is against forum rules. Or if it was, they weren't enforcing the rule for quite awhile. Not sure which.

They even made a post to explain that they were not moderating much back then.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

They even made a post to explain that they were not moderating much back then.

I don't think this has any relationship with Joew's word to some poll of which some forum member questioned its authenticity.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

I don't think this has any relationship with Joew's word to some poll of which some forum member questioned its authenticity.

Massive brigading makes polls pretty meaningless, was my point.