POLL: Is Wortox's "Covetous Collector" too skippable?

[asdsaax]

Covetous Collector is a simple perk that maxes out your damage
depending on how many souls you have (up to 100)

and I have seen a lot of people claim that the perk is underwhelming
because maxed out soul damage of soul-pierce and decoys doesn't make any difference

and knabsack is considered to be underwhelming, despite of being handy
hambat upgrade that can quickly turn into 200 use darksword, without sanity drain and for 2 silk

which is understandable to find that perk mundane, because eventually
it's main purpose will fall off hard (rip knabsack post fuelweaver)
and we are left with marginal damage up for our abilities

+ some people would literally just stick to the hambat which is just a little bit worse but gets the job done

I propose to allow the jars to be upgraded with pure horror/brilliance
so Wortox has to earn his power and the perk doesn't feel like a waste in comparison to other options

I would be okay even if he had to lose his base power for some scaling potential imo

LMK what you guys think

[erick was right]

i wish souls could infuse every weapon

[Y0sH]

I agree, and this was brought up in a couple posts and it shines a light on how at the very least soul damage should be maxed out at spear damage (34 I think). 

[asdsaax]

Small bump for proper hour

I hope you won't mind second bump for another day to get more voices heard 

[Bumber64]

It's okay pre-rift, then can be traded for capricious movement later.

[Echsrick]

honestly....i dont think its worth takin it

[BalkanCockroach]

I just want to get all the jar stuff without spending points on the  knabsack. I just don't find it useful at all.

[Master_NiX]

I'd say it's only value is in early game, and even then the moment you reach hambat/dark sword it's value is lost even more.
I take this talent during early game because my inventory is filled to the brim and early weapon for 2 silk is quite nice.

[IAmAFurrz]

19 hours ago, Master_NiX said:

I'd say it's only value is in early game, and even then the moment you reach hambat/dark sword it's value is lost even more.
I take this talent during early game because my inventory is filled to the brim and early weapon for 2 silk is quite nice.

it is a good weapon to progress with, 5 slots for weapon, silk, 2 jars and another soul slot, which does require good inventory management on other items but imo its real nice if you can do that

[Dingle]

12 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

it is a good weapon to progress with, 5 slots for weapon, silk, 2 jars and another soul slot, which does require good inventory management on other items but imo its real nice if you can do that

You really want a 3rd jar for it, or your damage will constantly dip down as you Wortox around. Unless you plan on not using his abilities, which is a bold strategy.

I mostly just end up using a ham bat.

It is nice for some boss fights once I get a third jar.

[ColdHeaven]

44 minutes ago, Dingle said:

You really want a 3rd jar for it, or your damage will constantly dip down as you Wortox around. Unless you plan on not using his abilities, which is a bold strategy.

I mostly just end up using a ham bat.

It is nice for some boss fights once I get a third jar.

With 2 jars, isn't the damage still higher than hambat even if it fluctuate?

[Dingle]

6 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

With 2 jars, isn't the damage still higher than hambat even if it fluctuate?

I think so, if you never use souls from the 2 jars.

In practice, I prefer having the extra souls for teleporting.

[ColdHeaven]

44 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I think so, if you never use souls from the 2 jars.

In practice, I prefer having the extra souls for teleporting.

Even if you use souls to teleporting, shouldn't the damage still be higher than hambat?

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, ColdHeaven said:

Even if you use souls to teleporting, shouldn't the damage still be higher than hambat?

No, it starts to get lower than a hambat at around 75 souls or so, off top of head.

At 50 souls total, it gets to tentacle spike damage.

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, Dingle said:

You really want a 3rd jar for it, or your damage will constantly dip down as you Wortox around. Unless you plan on not using his abilities, which is a bold strategy.

The damage maxes out at 100 souls, IIRC? So you should be at max as long as you take greed and keep souls above 20. (I forget how many soul jars you need to reach greed cap, though.)

[Dingle]

2 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

The damage maxes out at 100 souls, IIRC? So you should be at max as long as you take greed and keep souls above 20. (I forget how many soul jars you need to reach greed cap, though.)

Soul jar is 40. If you have 2 jars and Greed, you can reach 110 souls total.

This makes your margin 10 souls, if you want that max damage.

You could do this, sure. I just dont recommend it, in practice. Once you start dipping past the margin enough, it's better to just use a ham bat. Then you don't have a "margin", you just have 110 souls you can spend however you want.

If you just want tentacle spike damage, the margin is way higher. 60 souls. But at that point I'm probably just making a ham bat, which stays at the 51 damage or higher point for almost 3 days.

Maybe just a personal preference thing. I dont like having important damage breakpoints fluctuate downwards after teleports.

Unless you just meant how high overwhelming greed can go. That's just limited by your main inventory size.

[IAmAFurrz]

7 hours ago, Dingle said:

You really want a 3rd jar for it, or your damage will constantly dip down as you Wortox around. Unless you plan on not using his abilities, which is a bold strategy.

I mostly just end up using a ham bat.

It is nice for some boss fights once I get a third jar.

i mean, even if you dont have 100, as long as you have 2 jars you still do really good damage (mind you this damage doesnt deteriorate like hambat over time, rather it does for the number of souls so good management would keep your damage up (and yea, extra jar for bosses is good)

[Bumber64]

9 hours ago, Dingle said:

Soul jar is 40. If you have 2 jars and Greed, you can reach 110 souls total.

This makes your margin 10 souls, if you want that max damage.

You could do this, sure. I just dont recommend it, in practice. Once you start dipping past the margin enough, it's better to just use a ham bat. Then you don't have a "margin", you just have 110 souls you can spend however you want.

If you just want tentacle spike damage, the margin is way higher. 60 souls. But at that point I'm probably just making a ham bat, which stays at the 51 damage or higher point for almost 3 days.

Maybe just a personal preference thing. I dont like having important damage breakpoints fluctuate downwards after teleports.

Unless you just meant how high overwhelming greed can go. That's just limited by your main inventory size.

Sounds like it's 5 extra inventory souls per filled jar, then? That would track with comments about 45 (i.e., two stacks) being awkward back when the skills scaled to 5 soul jars.

The damage is still better than hambat at two jars (80 souls), so you should just be able to use your other 30 souls for teleporting (better than pre-skill Wortox). You've only got 10 souls to maintain dark sword damage, but if you're fighting normal mobs (or BQ) you should be able to regain some mid-fight.

If you're planning on doing a bunch of teleporting, you'd probably bring 3+ jars anyway. By the time your damage suffers, you use your remaining souls to teleport back to bees (possibly stashing loot there). Maybe not a practical weapon for most bosses, but good enough for exploring and general purposes.

[Dingle]

4 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

Sounds like it's 5 extra inventory souls per filled jar, then? That would track with comments about 45 (i.e., two stacks) being awkward back when the skills scaled to 5 soul jars.

Yes, it's 5 per jar. 4 jars = 40. I like 3 or 4 jars as the stopping point for that reason. 35 is close enough to 40, and that way you're only losing 4 inventory slots.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

7 hours ago, Bumber64 said:

If you're planning on doing a bunch of teleporting, you'd probably bring 3+ jars anyway. By the time your damage suffers, you use your remaining souls to teleport back to bees (possibly stashing loot there). Maybe not a practical weapon for most bosses, but good enough for exploring and general purposes.

Ugh, I wish it were that easy. I did a bunch of test runs for day 1 Shadow Pieces + Nabsack and the Soul Jars were just a total run killer. I had to gen new worlds over and over and over again. Not enough Red Gems from mosaic graves? Reset. Couldn't find the knight or rook? Reset. No luck finding any bottles AT ALL? More often than not, this was the cause for reset.

I ended up having to find a near-perfect world seed with a huge graveyard, and 2 different groups of 2 bottles floating near the shores, and just did a rollback over and over until I got lucky with the knight/rook. Felt like garbage, but more importantly, I did supergodmode to check bottle locations during these worldgens and... Wow. I never realized how awful this item is before. Like, it's actually toxic. Many of them spawn too far from shore to even see, oftentimes they're in deep ocean setpieces or near Lunar instead of mainland, and the Terrarium chest doesn't have them too often. I ended up with multiple worlds where there were only 1 or 2 viable bottles, and these were found with console commands, not the work involved with playing the game. Come to think of it, I literally only found a single one on my Walter world by time I had Ickers spawning, and he requires a lot of sailing that Wortox gets to skip. What the hell, man.

If all I'm doing is a normal ruins rush, this could be a HUGE delay. I skipped the Nabsack on the long-term world I did my rush and just used Hambats + Dark Swords (thanks, Treeguard setpiece) instead, so I was fine with 2 jars and could easily get my gems from the caves themselves (got them from normal graves, though.)

Anyway long story short, I HATE bottles now. I'm gonna find that lost thread that asks for them to get a crafting recipe and bump it, because you totally reminded me of how lucky it is to actually get 3+ bottles early on.

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Ugh, I wish it were that easy. I did a bunch of test runs for day 1 Shadow Pieces + Nabsack and the Soul Jars were just a total run killer. I had to gen new worlds over and over and over again. Not enough Red Gems from mosaic graves? Reset. Couldn't find the knight or rook? Reset. No luck finding any bottles AT ALL? More often than not, this was the cause for reset.

I ended up having to find a near-perfect world seed with a huge graveyard, and 2 different groups of 2 bottles floating near the shores, and just did a rollback over and over until I got lucky with the knight/rook. Felt like garbage, but more importantly, I did supergodmode to check bottle locations during these worldgens and... Wow. I never realized how awful this item is before. Like, it's actually toxic. Many of them spawn too far from shore to even see, oftentimes they're in deep ocean setpieces or near Lunar instead of mainland, and the Terrarium chest doesn't have them too often. I ended up with multiple worlds where there were only 1 or 2 viable bottles, and these were found with console commands, not the work involved with playing the game. Come to think of it, I literally only found a single one on my Walter world by time I had Ickers spawning, and he requires a lot of sailing that Wortox gets to skip. What the hell, man.

If all I'm doing is a normal ruins rush, this could be a HUGE delay. I skipped the Nabsack on the long-term world I did my rush and just used Hambats + Dark Swords (thanks, Treeguard setpiece) instead, so I was fine with 2 jars and could easily get my gems from the caves themselves (got them from normal graves, though.)

Anyway long story short, I HATE bottles now. I'm gonna find that lost thread that asks for them to get a crafting recipe and bump it, because you totally reminded me of how lucky it is to actually get 3+ bottles early on.

Yeah, this is a big reason to just use a ham bat lol.

I made topics on this way early on in the beta. If you have bad luck, you can just be deprived of jars.

No one really seemed to care though, so I dropped it. I think a lot of the problem is that a lot of the beta board is composed of theorycrafters. By that I mean people that are intelligent, but not actually playing the beta 4 real.

To really get a sense of how rare jars can be when you play, you have to actually play.

[Y0sH]

2 hours ago, Dingle said:

No one really seemed to care though, so I dropped it. I think a lot of the problem is that a lot of the beta board is composed of theorycrafters. By that I mean people that are intelligent, but not actually playing the beta 4 real.

To really get a sense of how rare jars can be when you play, you have to actually play.

THIS! I have over a hundred hours on this beta with Wortox alone and I can tell you with confidence that bottle rate and nerfed self-healing for naughty Inclination is a huge annoyance for the player.

[Echsrick]

3 hours ago, Dingle said:

To really get a sense of how rare jars can be when you play, you have to actually play.

wend to a circle trip on the ocean once, and only found 1 bottle, and it was not even a treasure map, so i dont see myself the bottle rate up a bit being a problem

[Bumber64]

4 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Ugh, I wish it were that easy. I did a bunch of test runs for day 1 Shadow Pieces + Nabsack and the Soul Jars were just a total run killer.

That's more a problem with the soul jars themselves than the knabsack, isn't it? You need jars to bypass the old soul limit, but if you don't have the bottles, you can't. Marotters drop them, but only at 5%.

IIRC, bottles actually spawn around the player at a semi-decent rate, but you'd need a cheat mod (with HUD indicators) to notice most of them. IDK if you could manage day 1, though. Edit: Nope, it's 1 bottle per 1-2 days, but counts time on land and waits for you.

Another thing: How's naughty Wortox at gathering NMF for dark sword, etc.? Do you end up having to fight splumonkeys or eat spoiled food? (I guess you could hold a dark sword, lol.) I decided to avoid that inclination like the plague since learning that it takes away sanity control, and then they went and nerfed healing.

[salty_cookie]

57 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Another thing: How's naughty Wortox at gathering NMF for dark sword, etc.?

Wormholes are a great option to loose sanity.