A Thread About Abigail's Surviveability, And What Needs To Happen With The Skill-Tree

[thesooz9000]

I know, I know, I said last time it would be my last topic, but with the entirety of the beta branch being topics of people begging for more and more Abigail buffs, I feel like I had to make a topic discussing why that would be an AWFUL idea.

 

No, Abigail's HP Shouldn't be buffed to 1200, Even if blessed sisturn III were to be removed.

What should happen instead with abigail, and wendy's skill tree as a whole is.

 

1. Blessed Sisturn III is made to work ONLY on gestalt abigail, not shadow or normal abigail.

2. You can rest Abigail at a sisturn for her to have 900 max HP, when she dies she loses that extra 300 Hp and must be rested again at a sisturn.

Also, when abigail is resting at a sisturn, you should be able to recall her, after you already put her to rest at your sisturn, so you don't have to travel back.

3. The 300 max HP perk does NOT work with Shadow Abigail or Gestalt Abigail, only for Normal Abigail.

 

What these 3 changes would do, is

 

1. Fix Blessed Sisturn making Abigail game play too easy / brain dead, requiring little to no effort to manage her.

2. Give players who haven't beaten FW or CC an option to buff Abigail without making her too over-tuned.

3. Ensure that shadow Abigail remains as the weakest version of Abigail HP wise.

 

I believe these changes will ensure that Abigail hopefully doesn't become too over-tuned. Whilst still providing more error room for less experienced players.

 

Edit: the 900 max HP perk isn't really neccesary, the only neccesary thing is that Blessed Sisturn III not work with Normal or Shadow Abigail, Only Gestalt.

 

 

[Steorra]

36 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

begging for more and more Abigail buffs,

No, I begging to nerf Vex enhancement to the DPS especially for Cursed Vex part (sigh I don't like my lovely character become another tomato brain.)

36 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

1. Blessed Sisturn III is made to work ONLY on gestalt abigail, not shadow or normal abigail.

This is wrong. There's already many discussions about this topic. Simply paste here.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162570-another-compromise-change-for-abis-survival-adjust-default-hp-for-abi-to-3006001200-for-lv123/?do=findComment&comment=1779237

36 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

2. You can rest Abigail at a sisturn for her to have 900 max HP, when she dies she loses that extra 300 Hp and must be rested again at a sisturn.

Also, when abigail is resting at a sisturn, you should be able to recall her, after you already put her to rest at your sisturn, so you don't have to travel back

It was already been proved that this is an unpopular idea. That's why Klei just simply remove it.

Game should become more and more convenient for QoL sake, but this design is completely go reversed.

36 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

1. Fix Blessed Sisturn making Abigail game play too easy / brain dead, requiring little to no effort to manage her

Not true. She still need basic management. Wendy still need basic dodge. Current Abi is not same as Shadow Duelist which could kill a boss individual without Wendy's damage output. 

If current Abi is brain-dead, then Wilson and Wes is brain-dead as well.

36 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

. Ensure that shadow Abigail remains as the weakest version of Abigail HP wise

Shadow abi has imbalance amounts. If you do no change to her beyond removing the player tag, she would stay OP. She need nerf. Cursed Vex need diminished effect, and Shadow Abi should be more fragile than before of when she has no player tag.

If there's any reason to nerf a thing which is useless to veteran but does great help to casual, then there's a needed to nerf a thing which is useless to casual but does great benefits to veteran. And it is Cursed Vex and Shadow Abi.

[thesooz9000]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

No, I begging to nerf Vex enhancement to the DPS especially for Cursed Vex part (sigh I don't like my lovely character become another tomato brain.)

This is wrong. There's already many discussions about this topic. Simply paste here.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162570-another-compromise-change-for-abis-survival-adjust-default-hp-for-abi-to-3006001200-for-lv123/?do=findComment&comment=1779237

I would be fine with dps nerfs, However, I feel that the survive-ability nerfs are more important.

 

Abigail's new survive-ability gives her a ridiculous amount of EFFECTIVE HP, on top of having options to instantly bring her back to level 3.

Giving her 1200 max HP ontop of having blessed sisturn III around gives her an effective hp of 2400 against bosses, whilst buffing wendy's damage, any other players damage, and dealing her own damage, having an aoe effect ontop of that

Here's 2 tests of blessed sisturn III and cure-all spam next to each other vs Armored Bearger, to show you just how strong abigail's blessed sisturn III is right now.

Without Blessed Sisturn III

 

With Blessed Sisturn III:

 

 

 

[Steorra]

10 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

I would be fine with dps nerfs, However, I feel that the survive-ability nerfs are more important.

Not exactly.

Survival nerf do impact to casual, but do almost nothing to veteran. Which may hint that there's a possibility that you think to nerf casual is important.

If you are concerned that tankier abi would be OP with cursed vex and shadow abi, just to make her survival enhancement become invalid when you activated Cursed Vex pr Shadow Abi, then problem solved.

[thesooz9000]

Just now, Steorra said:

Not exactly.

Survival nerf do impact to casual, but do almost nothing to veteran.

If you are concerned that tankier abi would be OP with cursed vex and shadow abi, just to make her survival enhancement become invalid when you activated Cursed Vex pr Shadow Abi, then problem solved.

Literally all of my fights against bosses have been without using shadow abigail, Only using the vex potion, and even without it, the problem is still there, abigail is an unkillable machine where having her die is extremely rare, and even if she does die? you have a potion to bring her RIGHT back to level 3, there are already options for less experienced players, without making abigail an invincible follower that just gives you a damage buff.

They've already added potions to improve the room for error for newer players, (Spectral cure-all, Ghastly Experience, Pipspook Quests), The Blessed Sisturn III should seriously be fixed.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

Literally all of my fights against bosses have been without using shadow abigail, Only using the vex potion

Tbh the cursed vex is the most broken thing in this beta.

 

8 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

abigail is an unkillable machine where having her die is extremely rare

She should be. Like spiders to Webber. Since if Abi died then all core feature of Wendy become invalid. Wendy is not meant to be a challenge character. This punishment is unreasonable.

Also, unkillable Abi is not true. I was tested it in this beta and it shows that Abi could still easily die in 5 second if you do something wrong in Armoured Bearger combat. The video above is skilled, though it may be not high skilled. But it still need you to do basic management. It is no brain-dead.

11 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

you have a potion to bring her RIGHT back to level 3,

I completely agree to remove this stupid elixir. And I've seen that many casual prefer to remove this stupid elixir than remove player tag. I think it's fair enough.

[thesooz9000]

Just now, Steorra said:

Tbh the cursed vex is the most broken thing in this beta.

 

She should be. Like spiders to Webber. Since if Abi died then all core feature of Wendy become invalid. Wendy is not meant to be a challenge character. This punishment is unreasonable.

Also, unkillable Abi is not true. I was tested it in this beta and it shows that Abi could still easily die in 5 second if you do something wrong in Armoured Bearger combat. The video above is skilled, though it may be not high skilled. But it still need you to do basic management. It is no brain-dead.

I feel like reiterating this again. BLESSED SISTURN III SHOULD NOT WORK ON NORMAL AND SHADOW ABIGAIL.

 

Wendy is a summon you begin with at the start of the game, have little to no resource cost on (Pipspook quest), and by using blessed sisturn III, during the armored bearger fight, I don't even have to use team spirit commands, just chuck spectral-cure all every 30 seconds.

Now If I wasn't using Blessed Sisturn III, I would have to actually care about what abigail is doing, use team spirit commands to have her get out of the way and avoid taking too much damage, But thanks to blessed Sisturn III, I never have to manage abigail's hp.

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

feel like reiterating this again. BLESSED SISTURN III SHOULD NOT WORK ON NORMAL AND SHADOW ABIGAIL

Okay, again.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162570-another-compromise-change-for-abis-survival-adjust-default-hp-for-abi-to-3006001200-for-lv123/?do=findComment&comment=1779237

10 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

Wendy is a summon you begin with at the start of the game, have little to no resource cost on (Pipspook quest)

Okay, "day 0 free use" again.

You may simply go for a survey to ask hiw many people here do care about this advantage. Then you may go ask to nerf Wendy's day 0 free use feature as how you like, I guess nobody would against your suggestions like this.

[thesooz9000]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Okay, again.

https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/162570-another-compromise-change-for-abis-survival-adjust-default-hp-for-abi-to-3006001200-for-lv123/?do=findComment&comment=1779237

Abigail Already has easy options for survive-ability, Klei shouldn't make a compromise here IMO, the ability (Blessed Sisturn III) should only work on gestalt Abigail.

Hell I'm considering that the 900 max HP for only normal abigail is already too much, and shouldn't be needed.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

Abigail Already has easy options for survive-ability

1. Where?

2. How many casual do care of them?

3. If to remove them for keeping player tag stay, will you agree? 

[thesooz9000]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

1. Where?

2. How many casual do care of them?

3. If to remove them for keeping player tag stay, will you agree? 

You mean to remove spectral-cure all? thus gimping every wendy main who doesn't use blessed sisturn III? this is an awful idea

 

Also, unrelated. But I found this awesome thread detailing some other solutions for wendy's current skill tree.

 

[thesooz9000]

Just now, Fitzee said:

Careful though, it may be on the verge of getting locked. 

Really? why tho?

[Steorra]

6 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

You mean to remove spectral-cure all? thus gimping every wendy main who doesn't use blessed sisturn III? this is an awful idea

 

Also, unrelated. But I found this awesome thread detailing some other solutions for wendy's current skill tree.

 

I have no interest to be serious with Lardee's word. I'm sorry.

But I respect your words. Just sorry for that I would not to be serious with what you linked here.

[Pig Princess]

15 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

What these 3 changes would do, is

 

1. Fix Blessed Sisturn making Abigail game play too easy / brain dead, requiring little to no effort to manage her.

2. Give players who haven't beaten FW or CC an option to buff Abigail without making her too over-tuned.

3. Ensure that shadow Abigail remains as the weakest version of Abigail HP wise.

 

I believe these changes will ensure that Abigail hopefully doesn't become too over-tuned. Whilst still providing more error room for less experienced players.

What about making Abigail easier to control and control options be more flexible? Or do you think changes you propose would be the only changes needed? 

Wouldn't it be better to give Abigail more survivability through active managment instead of extra hp? In case it won't, why? 

Nevermind, I saw you already contributed to the poll. This happened while I was in the process of writing message. 

[thesooz9000]

1 minute ago, Pig Princess said:

What about making Abigail easier to control and control options be more flexible? Or do you think changes you propose would be the only changes needed? 

Wouldn't it be better to give Abigail more survivability through active managment instead of extra hp? In case it won't, why? 

Yeah, more options for active management would be great.