Another compromise change for Abi's survival - Adjust default HP for Abi to 300/600/1200 for LV1/2/3

[Steorra]

Was just saw some idea like to make Abi have 1200 maximum HP but remove the player tag.

I personally think to make Lv1,2,3 Abi have 300/600/1200 HP would be a great adjustment for the current Player Tag

this would limit the Cure-All spamming gameplay, at the same time, this change gave a basic enhancement to Abi's survival for all players. it is a default setting, it would help those newcomer who know nothing about Lunar island a lot.

Also the rooks is still a huge problem to current Player Tag Abi. Rooks would cause sudden death to Abi, and current Player Tag helps nothing to this issue.

I do agree to remove player tag but adjust Abi HP to 300/600/1200 as default.

[Steorra]

Additionally, the balance issue for Player Tag was happened more focused on pre-rift bosses combat. 

As a compensate for removing Player Tag which decreased the Cure-All effectiveness, I recommend that to buff the planar damage reduction for Abi from 15 to 35 by the level1 affinities skills

This would do no impact to pre-rift things, but helps a lot for endgame bosses combat, i.e. Lunar bearger and Lunar deerclop, both of them are the hardest combat for Abi.

 

4 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

You think Lardee would theoretically be okay with this, or would it be another instance of "eliminating weaknesses" or whatever in his eyes?

You guys probably dislike each other and would rather not engage in another argument, but it'd be informative to get everyone's perspectives on this.

I personally would ignore this people completely. in other word, this people would never be concerned in my opinions. 

[katarinagray03]

Personally, I don't agree with putting her back to her 1200 health. You're going to ignore most of player's request for her to survive, as she takes few hits from giants and then you have to wait for her to regain her health back.

If you want to revert it back because of the player tag argument. I really don't see how overpowered this is.

I think if you wanted her to survive more, preparing many cure-all elixirs is already too much to do. Just to be able to kill one giant.

I think players should be able to spam healing just to be able to survive. The same as how you eat a bunch of healing food.

Also, if your concern is the Rook. Gestalt Abigail can help you out. In most cases, she doesn't die in that form if you helped her survived with commands and elixirs.

[Siren11]

I think changing Blessed Sisturn III to give Abby a new max level with 1200(?) HP would be better than just making it baseline. Ideally this would be true health, so it could be restored with potions, and you would only lose it if Abigail died (and Ghastly Experience should probably only bring you back to level 3).

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, katarinagray03 said:

Personally, I don't agree with putting her back to her 1200 health. You're going to ignore most of player's request for her to survive, as she takes few hits from giants and then you have to wait for her to regain her health back.

If you want to revert it back because of the player tag argument. I really don't see how overpowered this is.

I think if you wanted her to survive more, preparing many cure-all elixirs is already too much to do. Just to be able to kill one giant.

I think players should be able to spam healing just to be able to survive. The same as how you eat a bunch of healing food.

Also, if your concern is the Rook. Gestalt Abigail can help you out. In most cases, she doesn't die in that form if you helped her survived with commands and elixirs.

yeah, the main concern is the rook.

there's a design problem is that if the Gestalt Abi stay as current stage which could easily achieve at day11, then she would never be more powerful. She should become post-rift only for more potential in future update. Klei have low chance to give us a powerful Gestalt Abi which is available in day11.

tbh, the first time I've asked to add "Player Tag" to Abi, is based on the concern of Rook. but I've just found that the current "Player Tag" for abi is a new mechanic but not what applied to players before. That makes Abi still have no survival buff when facing Rooks.

 

1 hour ago, katarinagray03 said:

Personally, I don't agree with putting her back to her 1200 health. You're going to ignore most of player's request for her to survive, as she takes few hits from giants and then you have to wait for her to regain her health back.

If you want to revert it back because of the player tag argument. I really don't see how overpowered this is.

I think if you wanted her to survive more, preparing many cure-all elixirs is already too much to do. Just to be able to kill one giant.

I think players should be able to spam healing just to be able to survive. The same as how you eat a bunch of healing food.

Also, if your concern is the Rook. Gestalt Abigail can help you out. In most cases, she doesn't die in that form if you helped her survived with commands and elixirs.

there's a possible option for both rook and other sceranios - To set Abi at 1200 HP and give her 25% damage reduction or planar entity tag.

[WenericMember]

Could work, but i think a 1200 hp "level 4" would work better, to limit ghastly experience to a point.

[Steorra]

45 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Could work, but i think a 1200 hp "level 4" would work better, to limit ghastly experience to a point.

this make sense for me, good idea for limiting ghastly elixir.

[RussoDaFederal]

1 hour ago, WenericMember said:

Could work, but i think a 1200 hp "level 4" would work better, to limit ghastly experience to a point.

Now THIS is a compromise I can get behind. I agree with this.

7 hours ago, Fitzee said:

You think Lardee would theoretically be okay with this, or would it be another instance of "eliminating weaknesses" or whatever in his eyes?

You guys probably dislike each other and would rather not engage in another argument, but it'd be informative to get everyone's perspectives on this.

Come on, the dude is not even here. Why bring him up.

[Dingle]

8 hours ago, Steorra said:

Was just saw some idea like to make Abi have 1200 maximum HP but remove the player tag.

I personally think to make Lv1,2,3 Abi have 300/600/1200 HP would be a great adjustment for the current Player Tag

this would limit the Cure-All spamming gameplay, at the same time, this change gave a basic enhancement to Abi's survival for all players. it is a default setting, it would help those newcomer who know nothing about Lunar island a lot.

Also the rooks is still a huge problem to current Player Tag Abi. Rooks would cause sudden death to Abi, and current Player Tag helps nothing to this issue.

I do agree to remove player tag but adjust Abi HP to 300/600/1200 as default.

I like it if its still tied to lune blossoms. Or if it actually had some other actual cost or insight cost.

[Steorra]

Just now, Dingle said:

I like it if its still tied to lune blossoms.

it should not. The intention of enhancing Abi's survival is for casual players, some of them have no ability to achieve the lunar blossom. Therefore the enhancement of Abi's survival should be more easier to achieve for those players.

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

or insight cost.

Not sure about this part. Since sisturn III already cost insight...

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

it should not. The intention of enhancing Abi's survival is for casual players, some of them have no ability to achieve the lunar blossom. Therefore the enhancement of Abi's survival should be more easier to achieve for those players.

I got my lune blossoms on like day 8 (will check screenshots), without going to moon island. It's pretty easy now due to message in a bottle.

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

Not sure about this part. Since sisturn III already cost insight...

It doesn't cost much. 3 points, no other prereqs. After messing with her skill tree, it was shocking to me how loose, freeform, and cheap everything is.

I think its a combination of the general lack of locks (affinity only) and all the perk merging.

[Steorra]

Just now, Dingle said:

I got my lune blossoms on like day 8 (will check screenshots), without going to moon island. It's pretty easy now due to message in a bottle.

We should sweep down our level to theirs.

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

It doesn't cost much. 3 points, no other prereqs. After messing with her skill tree, it was shocking to me how loose, freeform, and cheap everything is.

I think its a combination of the general lack of locks (affinity only) and all the perk merging.

No idea about this, 3 insight Abi seems still far weaker than 3 insight BERNIE!, 3 insight treeguards of Woodie, and 0 insight spiders.

[RussoDaFederal]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I got my lune blossoms on like day 8 (will check screenshots), without going to moon island. It's pretty easy now due to message in a bottle.

Well I'll have to agree with Steorra for once, new players will have a hard time traveling to and from the lunar island. I know I've been through hell the first time I went there. Good ol' days when the lunar island update had just released. Now I can do it before winter easily, but only because I already know the whole process. Plus, I think lune blossoms are simply unnecessary. And 3 insight points is kind of a lot given that the other 2 are fillers, kinda.

[Dingle]

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

We should sweep down our level to theirs.

No idea about this, 3 insight Abi seems still far weaker than 3 insight BERNIE!, 3 insight treeguards of Woodie, and 0 insight spiders.

I'm ok with Abby being as strong as them if she has the damage of bernie, the prep time and one use of treeguards, and the slow gathering of spiders, sure.

8 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

Well I'll have to agree with Steorra for once, new players will have a hard time traveling to and from the lunar island. I know I've been through hell the first time I went there. Good ol' days when the lunar island update had just released. Now I can do it before winter easily, but only because I already know the whole process. Plus, I think lune blossoms are simply unnecessary.

I didn't even have to go to moon island, though.

8 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

And 3 insight points is kind of a lot given that the other 2 are fillers, kinda.

Haha, this is where we're at I guess. Maybe they'll condense it down to 2 or 1.

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

the damage of bernie,

seriously? Abi and BERNIE! have different advantage for attacking. Abi could not easily solo ruins like BERNIE! with its focusing build. No need to talk about Shadows.

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

 the slow gathering of spiders

hmm?

50 nurses in 3min or 50 shattered / spitters in one day is slow? 

oh, Abi now only need half day for leveling max if sisturn effect activated, im sorry.

4 minutes ago, Dingle said:

the prep time and one use of treeguards

I don't want to say that how Woodie is stronger than Wendy on resources preparing (collocting)

[RussoDaFederal]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I didn't even have to go to moon island, though.

...how did you get lune tree blossoms then?

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

50 nurses in 3min or 50 shattered / spitters in one day is slow

What? You can't get those by day 1.

2 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

...how did you get lune tree blossoms then?

Crabby Hermit island. Get one message in a bottle and her island gets put on the map for you. She has lune trees.

[Steorra]

3 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said:

...how did you get lune tree blossoms then?

the crap grandma, but it still need knowledge of sailing

[RussoDaFederal]

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Crabby Hermit island.

Ok, I usually count Pearl's island and the lunar island as one thing since the process to get there is roughly the same, but Pearl gives you directions at least. New players will still struggle

[Steorra]

Just now, Dingle said:

What? You can't get those by day 1.

hmm, ofc we cant, since nurses need a farm build but spitters need Bundling Wraps and Spiderhat.

it would take a bit longer if you want massive nurses, but generally 6~10 is enough for a far "immortal" army than current Abi.

Webber now has his tactic to deal with Bee Queen in early game, even during the Winterfeast (which is coming) you need no Bundling Wraps.

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

the crap grandma, but it still need knowledge of sailing

I just rowed.

[Jakepeng99]

10 hours ago, Steorra said:

Was just saw some idea like to make Abi have 1200 maximum HP but remove the player tag.

I personally think to make Lv1,2,3 Abi have 300/600/1200 HP would be a great adjustment for the current Player Tag

this would limit the Cure-All spamming gameplay, at the same time, this change gave a basic enhancement to Abi's survival for all players. it is a default setting, it would help those newcomer who know nothing about Lunar island a lot.

Also the rooks is still a huge problem to current Player Tag Abi. Rooks would cause sudden death to Abi, and current Player Tag helps nothing to this issue.

I do agree to remove player tag but adjust Abi HP to 300/600/1200 as default.

The old sistern skills was better.

[Steorra]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

The old sistern skills was better.

No, Jakepeng99 was better.

[lio516]

This is acceptable

[YuRinshue]

Reasonable thinking. By the way, the direct skill points of the skill tree should play a complementary role, which is interesting. Why do some people always want to break a lens when wearing glasses to limit their ability to see too clearly? Will restoring normal vision make you comparable to a real astronomical telescope?