Is the current blessed sisturn 3 too strong?

[YuRinshue]

1 hour ago, djturner said:

For my own clarification, in what way does Shadow Abigail outsurvive Lunar? In my experience the attack pattern of Lunar results in less damage taken overall and thus less healing potions needed. In addition to that, though, I think the main advantage of Lunar is that it plays itself. You get a nice single target damage upgrade, you can still swap back to regular under New Moon, and you don't need to worry about sacrificing things from your inventory for the damage upgrade (or doing the prep-work to obtain them). Wendy is already so strong that I find Shadow Abigail to be kind of overkill; Lunar's ease of use is very appealing.

On the subject of the thread more broadly, I'm kind of torn. I have generally found certain Wendy fanatics to be arguing in bad faith and to be clearly biased toward wanting their favorite character to be broken, but the Sisturn III solution is not entirely out of line with some other characters that we've seen. For three insight points and the (relatively minor) trouble of making it to the Lunar Island and getting your Lunar Blossom farm going back home, you earn the right to "cheese" a lot of bosses by mass producing Spectral Cure-Alls. In practice, I don't know how much different that is than grinding an absolute load of Nightmare Fuel on Max or Embers on Willow or Gunpowder on Wilson or Marble on Wolfgang or Catapults/Generators on Winona, etc etc. As a general rule I don't mind characters given the option to mass produce something to trivialize boss content, that's a very established part of the game.

You won't win any boss rush contests or points for style but it rewards players who are less skilled at the combat side of things for knowledge and skill on the survival side instead. As a result I'm probably more in the camp of number tweaking (either effectiveness of Cure-Alls, ease of producing them, or something else in that area) rather than blowing it all up again in search of a different survivability answer. If you fail to prepare, Abigail can still die, and we leave her inability to interact with Shadows intact as well, so I think Wendy comes through this with her identifiable weakness still there.

I have tested the survival ability of Moon Abigail, to be honest, it's not ideal because her AI is very clumsy.
For example, when 25% of her health enters a timid state, ideally she should be able to do a good job of dodging, but in fact, her survival depends on her attacking actions. In a timid state, she just becomes a sandbag.
If you try to escape the battle, her AI will make her overlap with the boss, making it easier for her to die, because in this state she will still be hated by the boss, and if you want to hide her, you will receive a very long hard straight. And being hit during this period will interrupt the movement, which is not allowed in boss battles.

[djturner]

1 minute ago, YuRinshue said:

I have tested the survival ability of Moon Abigail, to be honest, it's not ideal because her AI is very clumsy.
For example, when 25% of her health enters a timid state, ideally she should be able to do a good job of dodging, but in fact, her survival depends on her attacking actions. In a timid state, she just becomes a sandbag.
If you try to escape the battle, her AI will make her overlap with the boss, making it easier for her to die, because in this state she will still be hated by the boss, and if you want to hide her, you will receive a very long hard straight. And being hit during this period will interrupt the movement, which is not allowed in boss battles.

That's all fair. I would still say the sum total of all of this is that she's more survivable than Shadow Abigail, because even clumsily executed the evasive patterns and attempts to survive are better than just hanging tough in melee (if we're discounting dismissal or manual commands open to both of them), but I definitely agree that some of these spots could be improved.

[YuRinshue]

9 minutes ago, djturner said:

That's all fair. I would still say the sum total of all of this is that she's more survivable than Shadow Abigail, because even clumsily executed the evasive patterns and attempts to survive are better than just hanging tough in melee (if we're discounting dismissal or manual commands open to both of them), but I definitely agree that some of these spots could be improved.

I hold a positive opinion towards change. But for the current moon, Abigail has an advantage, and I hold a pessimistic opinion because my test results are not optimistic, and often it's better to use Shadow.

[layangan putus]

On 12/14/2024 at 10:29 PM, Pig Princess said:

By the way, I managed to kill Armored Bearger without player tag while keeping Abigail alive and outside of flower all the time (shadow affinity). Time to search for software and record. Shadow affinity is not necessary, but it makes things faster.

Basically so long as one keeps Abigail at the opposite side of boss and attacks until the very last moment, Armored Bearger targets Wendy. The first attack boss does is ground pound; to dodge that Abigail needs to be further than Wendy and Wendy needs to bait it. Then one can murder butterflies or something equivalent (I used 10 and it was overkill, 5 is just a bit too little), and before going into bear range one needs to send Abigail through bearger behind bearger, and as soon as possible follow and attack while also going behind bearger. Then one has to reposition oneself so Abigail is at the opposite direction and attack until the very last moment before dodge, otherwise bearger switches aggro on Abigail. Butt attack can be dodged by "escape command", however, make sure you are not in range as well, as you need to be on foot to stun the boss. Alternatively, once can let Abi tank this attack, but be sure to not be in range yourself for the same reason and to avoid bug that make Abi receive double damage if you both are hit. Then it's free punching phase, and right before it ends one has to send Abigail through boss and behind it and immediately attack before dodging ground pound. Rinse and repaet until boss is dead. It usually takes 2 stun cycle, and Abi has enough HP to withstand them. Even if she dies, you can resummon her during stun phase and proceed.

Fight either goes very quick and well, or it's a disaster when you are hit 3 times and Abi dies from collateral damage since she tries to follow you right into swipe. Still, I think with more practice I could make it more reliable, and such thing - 1 mistake being very punishing, but recovery being very doable even without elixirs - already exists in Fuelweaver and Twins fight.

Edit: forgot to mention equipment. Shadow reaper, void cowl, magi, nightshade nostrum, butterflies.

Nice! I've tested it, you can pull this off easily thanks to Team Spirit if you've known its pattern & just practice for consistency.

Also adding range strategy for C-Deerclops (I think everyone has already figured this out), just rile up Abi and use gloomerang to take threat from C-Deerclops. It will throw two icicles to Wendy and you just dodge it each time. Keep taking threat so it won't use melee attack to Abi - Keep repeating until it dies. Not sure about melee Abi for this fight but pretty sure someone has already figured the solution.

As for player tag, it just helps to smoothen the learning curve by allowing players to do more mistakes before Abi gone. It could be useful in normal run since players could do mistakes against bosses from time to time but back again beta Wendy already has strong tools. Player tag can really help players (new players somewhere out there without meta knowledge and practice) who hasn't learnt the post-rift bosses kiting patterns especially A-Bearger which has engaging attack patterns. I personally could use this player tag only for CC and AFW but it is what it is - Dev team will decide.