Please listen to my thoughts on Wendy's Skill Tree, which may give you a new understanding of Wendy's Skill Tree.

[YuRinshue]

Firstly, I believe there is an issue with Wendy's skill tree. However, please do not rush to resist or oppose it. You can try to patiently read through my ideas and suggestions, which may help alleviate some of the resistance.

Let me give a core summary of the problem with the entire skill tree: Wendy's skill tree doesn't do everything thoroughly, and every attempt to make the skill tree interesting always leaves behind some uncomfortable parts, resulting in a large part of the content in the skill tree feeling "perfunctory" and only a very small part feeling interesting, to the extent that for Wendy before the skill tree, the skill tree didn't completely solve any problems.

Teamwork spirit is definitely considered the best branch by everyone, but the synchronized 4.5s CD and fixed twisting movements always make it a bit uncomfortable to use. Many of the command effects in this branch are related to combat, but it is precisely due to issues with cooldowns, fixed actions, and various practical uses that players may need to invest a lot of effort in this skill branch to provide assistance for combat (mainly with bosses), which can only barely reach the level of ordinary characters. It is far inferior to having Abigail stick closely to Wendy.

This makes many players here feel that the designer is too obsessed with retaining the less fun parts, but unwilling to optimize this branch more smoothly, and must make players "dance with shackles", which makes this good design a pity.
I tend to cancel the rigidity brought by commanding actions and make the command smoother, so that it can better integrate into the battle.
 

Then there is the flower wreath branch, which should have been a very creative branch, but the designer made the effect of drinking medicine too boring in order to "limit power"
Firstly, all potions need to wear flower garlands to take effect. Removing the flower garland will render them ineffective. Potions are incompatible with each other and can only take effect on one type at a time. I think this design is very rudimentary and seems like it was created by someone who did not personally experience the game.
Because with minor modifications, this skill can be made slightly more aesthetically pleasing.For example, wearing a flower wreath for Abigail and giving her medicine can partially benefit a small group of teammates. This not only prevents people from feeling twisted, but also allows for smoother assistance to others.

Then there is the part about the effectiveness of the medication, which I feel feels very 'overcorrected'.

Like Vigor Mortis, I don't understand why acceleration requires deceleration to take effect, and can only increase by 25% while not exceeding a movement speed of 1.0. What is the purpose of this feature. However, with only minor modifications: when near Abigail, the movement speed is increased by 10%. This can create an effect that is not exaggerated, but is as exquisite as a dessert.

Next are two types of shield potions, a one-time 50 HP upper limit shield/providing 40 counterattacks on top of the previous one, both of which are full of inexplicable feelings. But their modifications are also easy: add a slot to the wreath, and when the former disappears, it can be automatically filled with medicine. That's enough.

Recovery medicine, Spectral Cure All requires blood loss to make. It's better to use the same collection time to make a therapeutic ointment for Revenant Restoration. It's not that they can't be used, it's just that they have almost no unique meaning of their own. There are too many ways to restore health in this game. A healing medicine that requires wearing a hat to use has no more interesting effect than other medicines. Overall, I find it difficult to feel the designer's consideration from the branch of potion garlands. Too many creative parts have been turned into uncomfortable content.

Next are the pharmaceutical branch and the help ghost branch that are paired with the flower wreath.
Why is this branch unsatisfactory for helping ghosts gain more mourning glory? Because the designer used the most insincere way to enhance a very boring content - increasing production. This is like a designer knowing that something is boring, but the designer doesn't want it to be interesting, but rather to make you receive rewards faster.
The same goes for pharmaceuticals. The effects of many potions are mediocre, and there may be 2-3 potions that do not have any necessity of their own. At this point, the designer did not decide to make the old potion more useful, nor did they decide to add interesting new potions, nor did they want the potion to run two at the same time (only two Lunar Rift/Shadow Rift potions with only numerical values appeared, and after being questioned, they reluctantly added them to run simultaneously, while the others remained the same). Instead, they made the potion run longer and yield higher.
These two factors result in the potion system being a bloated and deformed system, with its only meaning being affordability.
Many, very cheap, not fun, not interesting, and uncomfortable to use, just filling the void in the design of functional content with huge output. So much so that every piece of content built on this deformed foundation appears very unhappy.
You can refer to Willow and Wortox's skill trees here, which enrich and interest Ethereal Ember/Soul's abilities by enabling them to do more. Instead of simply improving their efficiency in obtaining Ethereal Ember/Soul. I hope you can understand the meaning of this paragraph, it's very important.

Because these two types of foundations are not good, my suggestion here will be relatively complex, but I will also try to be concise.
Firstly, to assist the Ghost branch, Pipspook's issue:
1. Its content is very limited, not only boring, but also just a pure task of obtaining special resources
2. It is a very independent task, unlike exclusive items such as Ethereal Ember/Soul, which can be integrated into everyday content, and you need to allocate time specifically to complete it.
So I think this content should be made more interesting and integrated into other daily activities, such as:
Pipspook will have more tasks and can perform up to 5 at the same time (such as battling Shadow Monsters, Giant Monsters/reaching certain key buildings/watching specific natural creatures)

Next is making the potion, which has a good foundation, but the resulting product is not very interesting, so it also requires relatively complex advice.
1. Can make medicine boxes
2. More potions can be made (Abigail provides a small amount of warmth/insulation/reduces enemy attack power/boosts morale for workers)
3. The effects of the medicine can exist in two different ways simultaneously
4. The medicine has a combination effect
For example:
Revenant Restorative+Unyielding Draught=When damaged during shield protection, Abigail will recover an additional 1 health point
Distilled Vengeance+Vigor Mortis=When Abigail is attacked, reduce the attack power of a small group of attackers
Such combination effects

Next is Abigail's Moon and Shadow Branch.
The moon branch was the most special branch before, as it solved Abigail's problem of being too fragile and changed her positioning.
But the latest update not only makes Abigail from the Moon branch extremely fragile, but may also be even more fragile than before (not mentioned in the update log, they added 1 second of "daze time" to Abigail from the Moon branch, which will be activated after each attack). At the same time, they almost do not consider rationality, reducing Abigail's attack power by half. Only leaving a feature of 25% health that will not be directly defeated, what happens after that? We can only use the "bad foundation" mentioned earlier - filling Abigail with a bunch of cheap potions. To be honest, this is actually uncomfortable. No one wants to protect Abigail by filling her with tons of potion, and everyone hopes to avoid harm.

So I tend to revert Abigail's survival ability back to the previous version, while removing the Moon Potion that only provides damage, so that Abigail's maximum damage becomes 150 normal damage+150 physical damage. This can reduce Abigail's excessive overflow damage without causing 400 damage (too much) to become 131 damage (too little) in the Planar Entity, which is not harmonious like before.
 

Why is the Shadow Branch a very offensive branch? Because this branch is just like what was mentioned before when discussing the potion system, except that the damage value has been doubled. This approach does not make people feel that the designer is thinking about how to make the game more interesting for players. Because Abigail never needs more harm, what she needs is always to survive. Turning Wendy into a troublesome version of Wolfgang won't make anyone happy.

I recommend removing the Shadow Potion here and allowing Abigail to attach to Wendy (in the same position as Wendy and no longer providing illumination). After using the command to sprint, Abigail can directly reappear from the shadow under Wendy's feet, without the need to add any exaggerated attack power that is not needed.

At the same time, neither of these branches helped with the issue of 'Abigail cannot attack most Shadow Creatures', and there are many Shadow Creatures in this game that actively appear and Abigail does not attack.
So I suggest here that the new form of the moon and shadow branches of Abigail can attack shadow creatures.
Moreover, the two new forms of Abigail can only be used after the Lunar Rift/Shadow Rift is activated in the world, through the transformation of the Abigail Flower. This ensures that it will not become too dominant too quickly, but can better adapt to the world after opening the Lunar Rift/Shadow Rift.

As for the remaining branches of the Spirit of Revenge, Tombstone, Asher Jar, Resurrection Butterfly, and Altar (Meat Block Statue). These are very confusing, you know, many of them can become interesting just by thinking a little more, but they just haven't been made.
For example:
Spirit of Revenge: The movement speed of ghosts that turn into ghosts after death increases, allowing deceased players to return to their teammates faster.
Urn of ashes: Waxing with beeswax to prevent the contents from rotting/turning decaying items into mourning glory. Various petals can be placed to provide different gains.
For example:
Moon Tree Flower - Abigail's Light Increases
Dark Petals - Abigail makes herself and Wendy less likely to be discovered by enemies
Succulent plant - Abigail's attack range slightly expands
Kelp - Abigail attracts bottles and driftwood
Fern Leaves - Abigail Can Cover Part of Wendy's Rainwater
Forget Me Lots - Sleeping near Abigail is more effective
Tillwaters - When not in battle, Abigail can slowly restore the health of those around her (12 o'clock a day)
and so on.
Resurrection Butterfly: This is built on the foundation of mourning for the glory that cannot be used up, which is mentioned earlier and makes people unhappy, and then used to activate the Shadow Branch, which is repulsive. So the emergence of this branch is unsatisfactory.
Altar Branch: Players who have been resurrected can choose an item from their deceased form, which will be brought back by a Pipspook. Instead of just making a replica of a meat statue, it is repulsive.
 

In summary, the reason why many people here dislike the current Wendy Skill Tree is because the designers did not pay much attention to the design of the foundation (mourning glory), only increasing the amount of acquisition rather than useful use. At the same time, a large number of restrictions are set for each creative skill tree content, but it does not provide fun and leaves players lacking interest in playing.

 

I translated it using a translation software, and this text may be a bit long and some of the words may not be well polished, which may cause comprehension issues. I am very sorry for this. If you have any questions about any part, you can let me know first, and then we can try to communicate properly. By the way, in the bilibili where I am located, the Klei official account has an official statement stating that "Klei Forum supports Chinese communication". Therefore, I think if you are willing, you can also use Chinese to communicate with each other. After all, I still need to use translation software, so if there are any unclear areas, I still need to ask you. It is also more convenient for me to find the problem in Chinese.

 

 

 

请来倾听一下我对温蒂技能树的想法吧，这也许能让你对温蒂技能树有新的理解。

首先，我认为温蒂技能树是有问题的，当然，请先别着急抵触与反对，可以先试着耐心的看完我的想法与建议，这或许能消除一部分抵触的心理。
我先给全篇技能树的问题作一个核心总结:温蒂技能树把每件事情都做得不彻底，每一个试图让技能树变有趣的方向，都总能留下一部分让人难受的部分，导致技能树里有很大一部分的内容让人觉得“敷衍”，只有极少一部分让人觉得有趣，以至于对于没有技能树前的温蒂，技能树没有彻底解决过任何一个问题。

团队精神绝对是大家都觉得最好的分支，但同步4.5s cd 与 变扭的固定动作 让它用起来总是有些不舒服。这个分支里面的很多指挥效果都是与战斗相关，但就是因为cd和固定动作以及各种实际使用上的问题，导致玩家通过这一串技能分支，能为战斗（主要是与boss）提供的帮助，可能付出大量的操作量，也只能勉强达到普通角色的水平，远不如让阿比盖尔可以贴紧温蒂。
这使得我这里很多玩家觉得：设计者太过分执着保留那些不好玩的部分，但又不愿意把这个分支优化的更顺滑，必须得让玩家“带着镣铐跳舞”，这让这个好的设计很可惜。
对此我倾向取消指挥动作带来的硬直，让指挥变得更顺滑，以至于可以更好的融入到战斗中。

然后就是花环分支，这个分支本来应该是一个很有创造力的分支，但设计者却为了“限制力量”，反而让喝药的效果太过于“无聊”
首先，全部药剂都需要佩戴花环才能生效，摘下花环就失效了，药剂之间互不兼容，只能同时生效一种，我觉得这种设计非常简陋，很像是不亲自体验游戏的人制作的。
因为只要轻微的修改，就能让这个技能稍微有些美感。比如说，花环给阿比盖尔佩戴，给阿比盖尔喝药可以让小范围的队友享受到部分效果。这样既不让人觉得变扭，也可以更流畅的帮助他人。
然后就是药剂效果的部分，我觉得这部分非常有“矫枉过正”的感觉。
像Vigor Mortis，我不理解必须减速才能生效的加速，并且只能+25%，同时不能超过1.0的移速，这种功能的出现是为了什么。然而对此，只要轻微的修改：当处于阿比盖尔附近时，移速+10%。这样就可以创造一个不浮夸，但又像一块甜品一样精巧的效果。

接着是两种护盾药剂，一次性的50血上限护盾/在前面基础上提供40反伤，这两个内容充满着不知所谓的感觉。但它们的修改也很容易：把花环增加一个槽位，当前者消失时，可以自动填充药剂。这样就足够了。
恢复药，Spectral Cure-All需要掉血才能制作，Revenant Restorative不如用同样的收集时间去制作一个治疗药膏。并不是说它们不能用，只是他们几乎没有自己独有的意义。恢复血量的办法在这款游戏太丰富了，一个需要戴着帽子才能用的回血药，效果没有比其他的药更有趣，总而言之，我很难从药水花环这个分支里感受到设计者付出的考量。太多可以有创意的部分被变成了让人难受的内容。


接下来就是和花环配套的制药分支和帮助幽灵分支。
帮助幽灵获得更多哀悼荣耀，这个分支为什么让人感到不满意呢？因为设计者采用了最没有诚意的方式去提升一个很无聊的内容——加大产量。这就好比设计者知道一件事情是枯燥的，而设计者并没有想让它变得有意思，而是让你更快的拿到奖励。
制药也是如此，药水的效果很多都是平平无奇的，有2-3种药水可能没有自己的任何必要性。这时候，设计者没有决定让老药水更有用，也没有决定增加够有趣的新药水，也不愿意让药水可以同时运行两种（只有两个只加数值的Lunar Rift/Shadow Rift出现后的药水，在被提出问题后，勉为其难的加上了同时运行，其他的还是照旧），而是让药水的时间变长、产量变高。
这两者就导致了药水系统是一个臃肿且畸形的系统，它的意义就只有廉价。
很多、很廉价、不好玩、不有趣、用起来也不舒服，只是用巨额的产量来填补功能内容上设计的空虚。以至于在这项畸形的地基上，所建立的每一个内容都显得很让人不开心。
这里你可以参考Willow和Wortox的技能树，他们的技能树是通过让Ethereal Ember/Soul能做更多的事情来让他们的能力变得丰富有趣的。而不是让他们能一味地提高获取Ethereal Ember/Soul的效率。希望你能理解我这段的意思，这很重要。

因为这两类的地基不好，所以我这里的建议就会相对复杂，但也会尽量简洁。
首先是帮助幽灵分支，Pipspook 的问题：
1.它的内容很少，不仅很无聊，而且只是一个纯粹的获取特殊资源的任务
2.它是一个非常独立的任务，它不像Ethereal Ember/Soul等专属物品，可以融入到日常本就包含的内容，你需要专门去分出时间去完成它。
所以我认为，应该让这个内容更有趣，并且可以融入其他日常活动中，比如：
“Pipspook会有更多任务且可同时进行最多5个（如与暗影怪物、巨兽战斗/到达某些关键性建筑/观看特定自然生物）”

然后是制作药水，它的地基很好，但做出的东西不太有趣，所以也需要相对复杂的建议。
1.可制作药水盒
2.可制作更多药水（阿比盖尔提供范围少量保暖/提供范围少量隔热/降低敌人一定攻击力/为工作的人加油鼓劲）
3.药水效果可同时存在2种
4.药水有组合效果
例如：
Revenant Restorative+Unyielding Draught=护盾期间受到伤害时，阿比盖尔会额外回复1点血量
Distilled Vengeance + Vigor Mortis=阿比盖尔受到攻击时，降低小部分攻击者的攻击力
诸如此类组合效果


接着就是阿比盖尔的月亮和暗影分支。
月亮分支在之前是最特别的分支，因为它解决了阿比盖尔太脆弱的问题，同时改变了她的定位。
但最新的更新让月亮分支的阿比盖尔不但脆弱无比，而且可能比未处于这个分支时更脆弱（更新日志里没有提及，他们给月亮分支的阿比盖尔增添了1s的“发呆时间”，会在每次攻击后启用。）同时也只是几乎不考虑合理性的，把阿比盖尔的攻击力对半减少了。只留下了一个25%血量不会被直接击溃的特性，在这之后呢？就只能用前面说的“坏地基”——用一大堆廉价的药水给阿比盖尔灌满。说真的，这其实是让人难受的。没有人希望保护阿比盖尔的办法是用成吨的药水灌满她，大家更希望可以避开伤害。
所以我倾向于把阿比盖尔的生存能力回调到上一个版本，同时删除只是提供伤害的月亮药水，让阿比盖尔的最大伤害变成150点正常伤害+150点Physical Damage这样既可以削减阿比盖尔过于溢出的伤害，又不会像之前一样，让400点伤害（太多）在Planar Entity下变成131点（太少）这么不和谐。

暗影分支为什么是一个很让人反感的分支?因为这项分支就和之前在说药水系统时说的一样，只是伤害的数值被翻倍了，这种做法无法让人感到设计者有在想怎么让玩家玩得更有意思。因为阿比盖尔从来都不需要更多的伤害，她需要的是一直都是让自己生存下来。让温蒂变成一个麻烦版的沃尔夫冈，这不会让任何人开心。
这里我推荐删除暗影药水，同时让阿比盖尔可以附着在温蒂身上（和温蒂处于一个位置，并且不再提供照明）。像使用指令冲刺后，阿比盖尔可以直接从温蒂脚下的影子中重新出现，就这样，不需要加任何不被需求的夸张攻击力了。

同时，这两个分支都没有为“阿比盖尔不能攻击大多数暗影生物”这个问题作出帮助，而这个游戏里有非常多会主动出现的，且阿比盖尔不会攻击的暗影生物。
所以我在这里建议，让月亮和暗影分支的阿比盖尔新形态，可以攻击暗影生物。
并且，阿比盖尔的两种新形态必须在世界开启Lunar Rift/Shadow Rift后才能使用，通过阿比盖尔之花进行变换。以此来保证不会过快的强势，但又可以更好的适应开启Lunar Rift/Shadow Rift后的世界。

至于剩下的复仇之灵分支、墓碑分支、骨灰罐分支、复活蝴蝶分支、祭坛（肉块雕像）分支。这些就很让人不知所云，要知道很多都是稍微多想一点，就能变得有意思的，但就是没做出来。
就比如：
复仇之灵：死后变成的幽灵的移动速度变快，让死掉的玩家更快的回到队友身边。
骨灰罐：用蜂蜡打蜡，让里面的物品不腐烂/腐烂的物品变成哀悼荣耀。可以放各种不同的花瓣来提供不同的增益。
如：
月树花——阿比盖尔光照变大
深色花瓣——阿比盖尔让自己和温蒂更不容易被敌人发现
多肉植物——阿比盖尔的攻击范围略微变大
海带——阿比盖尔会吸引瓶子和浮木
蕨叶——阿比盖尔可以为温蒂遮一部分雨水
Forget-Me-Lots——阿比盖尔附近睡觉的效果更好
Tillweeds——在不战斗的时候，阿比盖尔可以缓慢回复周围的人的血量（一天12点）
诸如此类。

复活蝴蝶：这个是建立在哀悼荣耀多的用不完这个前面提到的，让人不开心的地基上，然后用来激活暗影分支这个让人反感的内容。所以这个分支的出现就是让人无法满意的。

祭坛分支：可以让复活的玩家选择一个死前身上的物品，会有一个Pipspook帮你带回来。而不是只做了一个肉块雕像的复制品，这让人反感。




总而言之，之所以这么我们这里有很多人反感现在的温蒂技能树，就是因为设计者对地基（哀悼荣耀）的设计很不用心，只是一味地增加了获取量而不是有用的用途。同时给每个有创造性的技能树内容都设大量限制，但又不提供乐趣，让玩家缺少兴趣玩下去。

我是使用翻译软件翻译的，这段文字可能有些长且部分用词不太润色，导致可能会产生理解上的问题，这点非常抱歉。如果你有什么部分有疑问，你可以先告诉我，然后我们再试着好好交流。顺带，在我所处的bilibili中，里面的Klei官方账号里是官方声明提到“Klei论坛支持中文交流”的，所以我认为你如果愿意也可以采用中文来互相交流，毕竟我一样得用到翻译软件，有不清楚的地方还是得问你，你也用中文更方便我找到出现问题的地方。
 

When writing this post, there was an issue with my storage page, which resulted in the article missing about 20% of the content that I couldn't remember and having to fill in about 50% of the content. This may make some parts of the article incomplete and painful; (

 

在书写这篇帖子时，我的存储页面出现了问题，这让这篇文章少了大概20%我想不起来了的内容，以及重新补齐了大概50%的内容。这让这篇文章的部分内容可能有所不齐全，让人痛苦 ;(

[WANZUN]

不妥协的温蒂和创意工坊的温蒂都解决了需要寻找小惊吓的痛点，搞个月后材料升级骨灰盒自动产出哀悼荣耀不得了，也不用寻找，也不用制造双倍。资深温蒂都会养牛训牛，应该在骑牛上做出大量技能树改动，我前面提议过温蒂下次和女武神一起重做，把训牛还给温蒂，再弄个材料稍微昂贵些，但是不借助骨灰盒的恢复上限的灵药。至于阿比盖尔容易被boss杀，目前没看到什么好的解决方案。

那些临时抱佛脚➕的机制，复活和戴帽子灵药基本用不到，建议回炉。

The uncompromising Wendy and Wendy of the creative workshop both solved the need to find the pain point of a little shock, and after a month of material upgrading, the urn automatically produced mourning glory, no need to look for, no need to double. Senior Wendy can raise cattle and train cattle, so she should make a lot of skill tree changes on bull riding. I suggested that Wendy should redo it next time with the female warrior, give the training cow back to Wendy, and make a slightly more expensive material. but without the help of the urn to restore the upper limit of the elixir. As for the fact that Abigail is vulnerable to boss, there is no good solution so far.

 

Those temporary cramming mechanisms, resurrection and hat elixir are basically not used, it is recommended to return to the furnace.

[YuRinshue]

5 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

不妥协的温蒂和创意工坊的温蒂都解决了需要寻找小惊吓的痛点，搞个月后材料升级骨灰盒自动产出哀悼荣耀不得了，也不用寻找，也不用制造双倍。资深温蒂都会养牛训牛，应该在骑牛上做出大量技能树改动，我前面提议过温蒂下次和女武神一起重做，把训牛还给温蒂，再弄个材料稍微昂贵些，但是不借助骨灰盒的恢复上限的灵药。至于阿比盖尔容易被boss杀，目前没看到什么好的解决方案。

那些临时抱佛脚➕的机制，复活和戴帽子灵药基本用不到，建议回炉。

The uncompromising Wendy and Wendy of the creative workshop both solved the need to find the pain point of a little shock, and after a month of material upgrading, the urn automatically produced mourning glory, no need to look for, no need to double. Senior Wendy can raise cattle and train cattle, so she should make a lot of skill tree changes on bull riding. I suggested that Wendy should redo it next time with the female warrior, give the training cow back to Wendy, and make a slightly more expensive material. but without the help of the urn to restore the upper limit of the elixir. As for the fact that Abigail is vulnerable to boss, there is no good solution so far.

 

Those temporary cramming mechanisms, resurrection and hat elixir are basically not used, it is recommended to return to the furnace.

虽然温蒂和牛的组合很好，但我个人是更倾向于把自己的特色做好。
就好像大家都喜欢用怪物肉换蛋，用猪皮头盔和火腿棒。你不能说大家得有换蛋和猪皮方面的技能树吧x
运营玩法和人物特色还是不需要联系的那么近的，太直接反而有些突兀了x

[WANZUN]

2 minutes ago, YuRinshue said:

虽然温蒂和牛的组合很好，但我个人是更倾向于把自己的特色做好。
就好像大家都喜欢用怪物肉换蛋，用猪皮头盔和火腿棒。你不能说大家得有换蛋和猪皮方面的技能树吧x
运营玩法和人物特色还是不需要联系的那么近的，太直接反而有些突兀了x

有道理，主要我看女武神也是歌唱家扮演者，和骑牛也没啥联系，温蒂小女孩，小男孩更适合训牛吧，确实突兀些

[Xplan]

13 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

不妥协的温蒂和创意工坊的温蒂都解决了需要寻找小惊吓的痛点，搞个月后材料升级骨灰盒自动产出哀悼荣耀不得了，也不用寻找，也不用制造双倍。资深温蒂都会养牛训牛，应该在骑牛上做出大量技能树改动，我前面提议过温蒂下次和女武神一起重做，把训牛还给温蒂，再弄个材料稍微昂贵些，但是不借助骨灰盒的恢复上限的灵药。至于阿比盖尔容易被boss杀，目前没看到什么好的解决方案。

那些临时抱佛脚➕的机制，复活和戴帽子灵药基本用不到，建议回炉。

The uncompromising Wendy and Wendy of the creative workshop both solved the need to find the pain point of a little shock, and after a month of material upgrading, the urn automatically produced mourning glory, no need to look for, no need to double. Senior Wendy can raise cattle and train cattle, so she should make a lot of skill tree changes on bull riding. I suggested that Wendy should redo it next time with the female warrior, give the training cow back to Wendy, and make a slightly more expensive material. but without the help of the urn to restore the upper limit of the elixir. As for the fact that Abigail is vulnerable to boss, there is no good solution so far.

 

Those temporary cramming mechanisms, resurrection and hat elixir are basically not used, it is recommended to return to the furnace.

Allow me to promote my idea about improving beefalo Wendy.

 

[WANZUN]

9分钟前，Xplan说:

请允许我向温蒂提出我的改进意见。

 

A very good idea.

[RiceMilk]

I completely agree with your thoughts on ghost production.

It is a fact that the experience of using the potion is very poor, and the biggest reason is that Abigail only has a maximum health limit of 600, so no matter what you do, the fault tolerance rate is very low.

If the choice between Lunar and Shadow is survival and damage, then Moon Abigail should have strong survival abilities, and the nerf version is obviously not good.

The problem with Shadow is that it inherits all the shortcomings of its original form, and killing small creatures is very troublesome, even requiring Wendy to perform an action.

我完全同意你对鬼魂产出方面的想法。

使用药水的体验很差是事实，最大的原因就是Abigail只有600血上限，无论你做什么容错率都很低。

如果说Lunar与Shadow的抉择是生存与伤害，那Moon Abigail就应当有强大的生存能力，削弱后的版本很明显不行。

暗影的问题是继承了原本形态的全部缺点，击杀小生物又很麻烦，甚至还需要温蒂执行一个动作。

13 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

不妥协的温蒂和创意工坊的温蒂都解决了需要寻找小惊吓的痛点，搞个月后材料升级骨灰盒自动产出哀悼荣耀不得了，也不用寻找，也不用制造双倍。资深温蒂都会养牛训牛，应该在骑牛上做出大量技能树改动，我前面提议过温蒂下次和女武神一起重做，把训牛还给温蒂，再弄个材料稍微昂贵些，但是不借助骨灰盒的恢复上限的灵药。至于阿比盖尔容易被boss杀，目前没看到什么好的解决方案。

那些临时抱佛脚➕的机制，复活和戴帽子灵药基本用不到，建议回炉。

The uncompromising Wendy and Wendy of the creative workshop both solved the need to find the pain point of a little shock, and after a month of material upgrading, the urn automatically produced mourning glory, no need to look for, no need to double. Senior Wendy can raise cattle and train cattle, so she should make a lot of skill tree changes on bull riding. I suggested that Wendy should redo it next time with the female warrior, give the training cow back to Wendy, and make a slightly more expensive material. but without the help of the urn to restore the upper limit of the elixir. As for the fact that Abigail is vulnerable to boss, there is no good solution so far.

 

Those temporary cramming mechanisms, resurrection and hat elixir are basically not used, it is recommended to return to the furnace.

Beefalo is an important support for Wendy, but I can understand if there is no relevant content in the skill tree. But it would be even better if the effect of the skill tree could also give Beefalo cows gains, such as the range of potion gains that also work for Beefalo.

The biggest problem with Beefalo now is being targeted by new monster mechanisms. I really don't know what the cow did wrong, of course, that's another topic.

beefalo是温蒂很重要的助力，但如果技能树中没有出现相关内容我也能理解。但是如果技能树的效果能顺便使beefalo牛获得增益就更好了，比如范围的药水增益对beefalo也生效。

beefalo现在最大的问题是被新怪的机制针对，我真不知道牛做错了什么，当然这是另一个话题了。

 

P.S. Anyway, I think using two languages to communicate at the same time is a fun and respectful attitude.

[Xplan]

1 minute ago, WANZUN said:

A very good idea.

good idea了那哥们我赞呢我赞呢我赞呢给我帖子点赞给我帖子点赞

[YuRinshue]

14 minutes ago, RiceMilk said:

I completely agree with your thoughts on ghost production.

It is a fact that the experience of using the potion is very poor, and the biggest reason is that Abigail only has a maximum health limit of 600, so no matter what you do, the fault tolerance rate is very low.

If the choice between Lunar and Shadow is survival and damage, then Moon Abigail should have strong survival abilities, and the nerf version is obviously not good.

The problem with Shadow is that it inherits all the shortcomings of its original form, and killing small creatures is very troublesome, even requiring Wendy to perform an action.

我完全同意你对鬼魂产出方面的想法。

使用药水的体验很差是事实，最大的原因就是Abigail只有600血上限，无论你做什么容错率都很低。

如果说Lunar与Shadow的抉择是生存与伤害，那Moon Abigail就应当有强大的生存能力，削弱后的版本很明显不行。

暗影的问题是继承了原本形态的全部缺点，击杀小生物又很麻烦，甚至还需要温蒂执行一个动作。

Beefalo is an important support for Wendy, but I can understand if there is no relevant content in the skill tree. But it would be even better if the effect of the skill tree could also give Beefalo cows gains, such as the range of potion gains that also work for Beefalo.

The biggest problem with Beefalo now is being targeted by new monster mechanisms. I really don't know what the cow did wrong, of course, that's another topic.

beefalo是温蒂很重要的助力，但如果技能树中没有出现相关内容我也能理解。但是如果技能树的效果能顺便使beefalo牛获得增益就更好了，比如范围的药水增益对beefalo也生效。

beefalo现在最大的问题是被新怪的机制针对，我真不知道牛做错了什么，当然这是另一个话题了。

 

P.S. Anyway, I think using two languages to communicate at the same time is a fun and respectful attitude.

我很早之前也发过一次帖子，那时候还只是自己的技能树设想，而不是对现在技能树的评价（

在我当时的设想里，月亮和暗影对应的形态都是先优化生存，然后在这个基础上提供方向上的不同。
月亮阵营的方向就是大家最喜闻乐见的幽灵铠甲（优先扣除阿比血量），并且可以让温蒂享受到药水增益，适合单人
暗影阵营的方向则是让阿比变成类似于暗影伞的领域模式（领域状态阿比会自己扣血，并受到领域内玩家受伤的影响加速扣血），并且可以用药水为领域内的敌人施加减益，适合多人

 

I also posted once a long time ago, when it was just my own imagination of the skill tree, not an evaluation of the current skill tree（
In my imagination at that time, the shapes corresponding to the moon and shadow were optimized for survival first, and then different directions were provided based on this foundation.
The direction of the Moon faction is the most popular ghost armor among everyone (priority deduction of Abi's health), and it can allow Wendy to enjoy potion gains, suitable for solo use
The direction of the Shadow faction is to transform Abi into a realm mode similar to the Shadow Umbrella (Abi will heal himself in the realm state and accelerate healing under the influence of player injuries in the realm), and can use potions to add or subtract benefits to enemies in the realm, suitable for multiple people

27 minutes ago, Xplan said:

Allow me to promote my idea about improving beefalo Wendy.

 

我之前有看见过，也是很有趣的内容✔
当然，不介意的话也可以把我的帖子带过去宣传，码字了个把小时来着，不想太快沉底

I have seen it before, and it is also very interesting content ✔
Of course, if you don't mind, you can also bring my post over for promotion. I've been writing for hours and don't want it to sink too quickly

[WANZUN]

24 minutes ago, RiceMilk said:

I completely agree with your thoughts on ghost production.

It is a fact that the experience of using the potion is very poor, and the biggest reason is that Abigail only has a maximum health limit of 600, so no matter what you do, the fault tolerance rate is very low.

If the choice between Lunar and Shadow is survival and damage, then Moon Abigail should have strong survival abilities, and the nerf version is obviously not good.

The problem with Shadow is that it inherits all the shortcomings of its original form, and killing small creatures is very troublesome, even requiring Wendy to perform an action.

我完全同意你对鬼魂产出方面的想法。

使用药水的体验很差是事实，最大的原因就是Abigail只有600血上限，无论你做什么容错率都很低。

如果说Lunar与Shadow的抉择是生存与伤害，那Moon Abigail就应当有强大的生存能力，削弱后的版本很明显不行。

暗影的问题是继承了原本形态的全部缺点，击杀小生物又很麻烦，甚至还需要温蒂执行一个动作。

Beefalo是Wendy的重要支撑，但是如果技能树里没有相关内容我也能理解。但是如果技能树的效果也能给比弗洛牛带来增益，比如同样对比弗洛有效的药剂增益范围，那就更好了。

Beefalo现在最大的问题是被新的怪物机制盯上了。真不知道牛做错了什么，当然那是另一个话题了。

beefalo是温蒂很重要的助力，但如果技能树中没有出现相关内容我也能理解。但是如果技能树的效果能顺便使beefalo牛获得增益就更好了，比如范围的药水增益对beefalo也生效。

beefalo现在最大的问题是被新怪的机制针对，我真不知道牛做错了什么，当然这是另一个话题了。

 

P.S .反正我觉得同时用两种语言交流是一种有趣又尊重的态度。

The skill tree should be built around usefulness and practicality, and singers can connect with each other, and so can Wendy.

技能树是应该围绕着使用性，实用性来创建，歌唱家都能有联系，温武神也未尝不可。

[YuRinshue]

[Lee lol]

我记得刚刚发布的投票显示，不用药水的最大原因是小惊吓任务太无聊了…你提出的关于增加小惊吓任务的趣味性这一点我几乎没看到有人提过。新药水，也有很多人提，但是他就是不加，不一定非要是战斗有关的药水啊，把老药水稍微改进一下，或者做一些提升生活质量的药水很难吗…

I remember that the vote just released showed that the biggest reason for not using potions is that the small scare task is too boring... I have hardly seen anyone mention your suggestion about increasing the fun of the little scare task. Many people mention the new potion, but he just doesn't add it. It doesn't have to be a battle-related potion. Is it difficult to slightly improve the old potion or make some potions to improve the quality of life...

[Catapult 2.0]

非常认同你的观点，哀悼荣耀的产出变得容易了，但哀悼荣耀依然不是很有用处，这是非亲和技能里的核心问题。

I agree with you that it is easier to produce Mourning Glory, but Mourning Glory is still not very useful, which is a central problem with non-affinity skills

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

重做重做重做重做 必须重做技能树 这些都不要了 全部重做做

看看隔壁小恶魔 这就是机制的胜利 主要他们想好好做肯定是能做出来的  我们要求重做 

[1007954611]

34 minutes ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

非常认同你的观点，哀悼荣耀的产出变得容易了，但哀悼荣耀依然不是很有用处，这是非亲和技能里的核心问题。

I agree with you that it is easier to produce Mourning Glory, but Mourning Glory is still not very useful, which is a central problem with non-affinity skills

You're right. Klei once drew a pancake and said he wanted to improve the effectiveness of Mourning Glory, but the new version uses it to revive butterflies, which makes me angry

[YuRinshue]

50 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

Please Make your posts concise and to the point, it is very hard to read through a translated paragraph

Well, what you said makes some sense. However, the reason why I wrote a lot is because there are too many commenters on other posts who not only ask us for advice, but also require us to express our opinions sufficiently. In that case, I can only present the entire content as fully as possible to make people understand why our dissatisfaction with the skill tree is so serious. So, if you don't mind, I recommend you to translate and read in sections, just like I usually do when reading other English users on this forum.

[YuRinshue]

[Soul7k]

The difficulty with the shield potions is: while I want them to be stronger I understand that they don't need to be replacements for thulecite crown or bone armor. Also giving them too much shield value could eliminate the need for armor. That being said I am interested to see what they come up with today or in the next iterations.

The butterflies is hard to explain. For one it can be useful for making flowers for honey farms or butterfly farms, but I think the real value is currently the 9 point loop. 3 points in shadow, 3 in pipspook, and 3 in butterfly. This creates a cycle to turn on shadow Abigail. get mourning glory, catch butterfly, get buff, revive butterfly for buff later. It is a hefty investment, but it has good synergy. Could the price for butterfly be better? Probably. Assuming you get 20 mourning glory per pipspook you can only revive 5 at a time, which I believe is 40 seconds of shadow Abigail. The unfortunate thing is none of that is needed with lunar Abigail.

[YuRinshue]

38 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

The difficulty with the shield potions is: while I want them to be stronger I understand that they don't need to be replacements for thulecite crown or bone armor. Also giving them too much shield value could eliminate the need for armor. That being said I am interested to see what they come up with today or in the next iterations.

The butterflies is hard to explain. For one it can be useful for making flowers for honey farms or butterfly farms, but I think the real value is currently the 9 point loop. 3 points in shadow, 3 in pipspook, and 3 in butterfly. This creates a cycle to turn on shadow Abigail. get mourning glory, catch butterfly, get buff, revive butterfly for buff later. It is a hefty investment, but it has good synergy. Could the price for butterfly be better? Probably. Assuming you get 20 mourning glory per pipspook you can only revive 5 at a time, which I believe is 40 seconds of shadow Abigail. The unfortunate thing is none of that is needed with lunar Abigail.

As I mentioned in my article, the core issue is that under the influence of the skill tree, Mourning Glory and making drugs have become too cheap, to the point where items derived from Mourning Glory and potions will be forced to limit their effects. This is a distorted circulatory system that leads designers to be trapped in the wrong balance direction.

[Xplan]

8 hours ago, Soul7k said:

The difficulty with the shield potions is: while I want them to be stronger I understand that they don't need to be replacements for thulecite crown or bone armor. Also giving them too much shield value could eliminate the need for armor. That being said I am interested to see what they come up with today or in the next iterations.

The butterflies is hard to explain. For one it can be useful for making flowers for honey farms or butterfly farms, but I think the real value is currently the 9 point loop. 3 points in shadow, 3 in pipspook, and 3 in butterfly. This creates a cycle to turn on shadow Abigail. get mourning glory, catch butterfly, get buff, revive butterfly for buff later. It is a hefty investment, but it has good synergy. Could the price for butterfly be better? Probably. Assuming you get 20 mourning glory per pipspook you can only revive 5 at a time, which I believe is 40 seconds of shadow Abigail. The unfortunate thing is none of that is needed with lunar Abigail.

Here i am, promoting my ideas again.

 

[YuRinshue]

漫途仅是启程，同志们仍需努力 ;D

[YuRinshue]

感觉是得换一个新的分析帖的时候了，应对新的更新日志（

[WANZUN]

10 minutes ago, YuRinshue said:

感觉是得换一个新的分析帖的时候了，应对新的更新日志（

旅途结束了，温蒂不会再做大的改动了

天体阿比再回调点伤害，或者能打影怪，哀悼荣耀多点作用技能树也差不多了

[congrongfuguo]

你简直就是个天才 准确的找到问题 准确的描述 解决方式也非常有趣 我对你充满尊敬 

[Steorra]

I was missed this thread for some reason and thankfully this was bumped.