Poll of Wendy's Skill Tree from Baidu Tieba (Chinese version of Reddit)

[Echsrick]

19 minutes ago, Dingle said:

You guys messed up on that last one. 200 votes for Walter, nearly equal to Wendy when you factor in "don't care" votes, and vastly satisfied? Too greedy. Too fake. Really laughable.

i dont think they realy care, they will spew out anything if it means wendy gets remade again

[Dingle]

18 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

Your opinion is not only rediculous but also amusing. It's so logical to call Wendy's vote fake based on Walter's voting situation, LOL

Can't tell if you're being disingenuous or you're amazingly bad at basic math.

15 minutes ago, Lee Sy said:

There's no so-called xx mains, I hate this expression. I am just a player of DST, and we all are. I have experienced it over 1500 hours on Steam(not include DS), I enjoy playing all the characters instead of focusing on certain one.

So why people can't vote for other characters if they have voted for Wendy? Why it is not valid?

Yeah I'm sure all these people with Wendy avatars, posting about Wendy issues, calling for Wendy buffs and nerfs for other characters, are playing Walter just as much as they play Wendy.

Do you seriously not see the problem of 200 wendy mains voting "extremely unsatisfied" as their character, and then also voting "satisfied" as Walter at the same time? Like it wouldn't make the poll completely meaningless?

[Cassielu]

10 hours ago, arubaro said:

They do care when they have been explaining detailed the design philosophy behind the skill tree in a dedicated post plus the ammount of changes and improvements they did.

That's largely where the sound comes from.

Jason did have the patience and bonafide to explain in design detail. But the content they explain... Well, was deemed to have "exposed his poor understanding to this game," and "not really caring about their opinion."

Explaining like "I gave you a skill to craft butterfly so you can use on shadow skill" is like publicly announcing that this skill doesn't have any hidden design details and really as stupid as people's first impression. If he hadn't acknowledged it, I would have 100% assumed it was a placeholder that would be changed at some point in the future.

[Lee lol]

3 hours ago, A Pufferfish said:

Let's now mince words here and be completely straight up, no matter what Klei does, not everybody will be satisfied. It's not like Wendy is getting worse either, there was never an outcry for Wendy to be buffed before, so if this skilltree is really that "bad", don't use the insight, the same old Wendy is still playable and accessible, it's not like Wendy with her skilltree is stronger than base Wendy, heavens no.

OK, fine. So we now get "If you don't like Wendy's skill tree, don't use insight." Like the logic of the big worm, I guess, "If you don't like the big worm, you can turn it off."

[Xplan]

Just now, Fitzee said:

更深的蠕虫也可以关闭;我甚至一次都没遇到过。

When i started trying to build my ultimate base underground, Klei updated that worm. 

[Peasant]

3 hours ago, Echsrick said:

and here we are again of them insulting the devs and not saying anything of worth....you want change? then work on your manners

Question: Where is the insult?

[WenericMember]

52 minutes ago, Cassielu said:

That's largely where the sound comes from.

Jason did have the patience and bonafide to explain in design detail. But the content they explain... Well, was deemed to have "exposed his poor understanding to this game," and "not really caring about their opinion."

Explaining like "I gave you a skill to craft butterfly so you can use on shadow skill" is like publicly announcing that this skill doesn't have any hidden design details and really as stupid as people's first impression. If he hadn't acknowledged it, I would have 100% assumed it was a placeholder that would be changed at some point in the future.

Yes because Wortoxs"souls heal more" or walter getting a third speed reduction round has so much hidden depth

The forum post was a brief intro, a comprehensive breakdown would be wasteful. Wendy needs petals for graves and sisturn. Petals are ultimately sourced from live butterflies, Abigail is good at making dead butterflies. Bridge the gap with new skill, which has synergy with shadow 3. For a tier 1 skill thats immenselybwell thought out. Woodie, who has the best skill tree, had a similar skill that was "cut boards more efficiently"

I think its undoutable theres at least a bit of a double standard.

[SilverSpoon]

49 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i dont think they realy care, they will spew out anything if it means wendy gets remade again

42 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Yeah I'm sure all these people with Wendy avatars, posting about Wendy issues, calling for Wendy buffs and nerfs for other characters, are playing Walter just as much as they play Wendy.

Do you seriously not see the problem of 200 wendy mains voting "extremely unsatisfied" as their character, and then also voting "satisfied" as Walter at the same time? Like it wouldn't make the poll completely meaningless?

Chinese players place a lot more importance on combat than europa and american players.

The main complaint on the forums about the current Walter skill tree is that "he's too combat-oriented", so it makes sense that Chinese players would find the current Walter skill tree "satisfied" and it's not evidence of cheating.

[SilverSpoon]

In any case, responding to the voting results with such toxic comments as "They're that bad, so their votes are worthless!" and "The votes are rigged!" seems to be exactly the same as the haters who resorted to insult against Klei this time.

[Lee Sy]

51 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Do you seriously not see the problem of 200 wendy mains voting "extremely unsatisfied" as their character, and then also voting "satisfied" as Walter at the same time? Like it wouldn't make the poll completely meaningless?

Only 5 unsatisfied and 0 very unsatisfied to Wortox among nearly 200 votes.

How could it be? There's only 5 loyal Wortox mains on forum?

As for Walter, if you browse my post history, you'll find some suggestions about it.

At present, the first page in beta branch: 1 topic for Wortox, 3-4 for Walter, Wendy shares the most. The number of posts can indicate roughly how many people are not satisfied with corresponding character. Any difference with the vote results?

[Dingle]

9 minutes ago, Lee Sy said:

At present, the first page in beta branch: 1 topic for Wortox, 3-4 for Walter, Wendy shares the most. The number of posts can indicate roughly how many people are not satisfied with corresponding character. Any difference with the vote results?

Similar cheap trick to "have 200 wendy players vote on the Walter perks being fine", already covered this one. Brigade with sheer numbers.

Wortox and Walter posts get pushed off the first page by the sheer number of Wendy players.

The number of posts indicate how bad the forum is being brigaded with calls for Jason to resign or whatever the tactic of the day is.

You must know better. Any more disingenuous arguments?

[Peasant]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Similar cheap trick to "have 200 wendy players vote on the Walter perks being fine", already covered this one. Brigade with sheer numbers.

Wortox and Walter posts get pushed off the first page by the sheer number of Wendy players.

The number of posts indicate how bad the forum is being brigaded with calls for Jason to resign or whatever the tactic of the day is.

You must know better. Any more disingenuous arguments?

Em, you suggest that these 194 people who had voted are all Wendy players therefore the result is meaningless?

[Dingle]

48 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

Chinese players place a lot more importance on combat than europa and american players.

The main complaint on the forums about the current Walter skill tree is that "he's too combat-oriented", so it makes sense that Chinese players would find the current Walter skill tree "satisfied" and it's not evidence of cheating.

Is walter the second most played character after Wendy in China or something?

40 minutes ago, SilverSpoon said:

In any case, responding to the voting results with such toxic comments as "They're that bad, so their votes are worthless!" and "The votes are rigged!" seems to be exactly the same as the haters who resorted to insult against Klei this time.

Haha

10 minutes ago, YXukun said:

Em, you suggest that these 194 people who had voted are all Wendy players therefore the result is meaningless?

Oh, not all, just an obvious majority.

If the poll wasn't full of many Wendy mains voting satisfied for Walter, the results would mostly be "I have no strong feelings about this character".

Because he is one of the least played characters out the roster.

Think about it. Think really hard.

[Lee Sy]

19 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Similar cheap trick to "have 200 wendy players vote on the Walter perks being fine", already covered this one. Brigade with sheer numbers.

Wortox and Walter posts get pushed off the first page by the sheer number of Wendy players.

The number of posts indicate how bad the forum is being brigaded with calls for Jason to resign or whatever the tactic of the day is.

You must know better. Any more disingenuous arguments?

你在尝试避开最核心的问题，我想你已经知道自己的理论站不住脚了。继续争论没有意义，你只是在享受有人回复你的消息，我不会再浪费时间了。

[Peasant]

19 minutes ago, Dingle said:

If the poll wasn't full of many Wendy mains voting satisfied for Walter, the results would mostly be "I have no strong feelings about this character".

Or, the poll isn't full of many Wendy mains voting satisfied for Walter, and those who are simply voted "I have no strong feelings about this character".

Think about it. Think really hard.

[A Pufferfish]

1 hour ago, Lee lol said:

OK, fine. So we now get "If you don't like Wendy's skill tree, don't use insight." Like the logic of the big worm, I guess, "If you don't like the big worm, you can turn it off."

Ayup.

It appears to me nobody actually seems to know what they want, or at the very least, agree on what they want. There are gonna be people who don't like her tree, and people who do. People can either keep playing Wendy the way they have been since the release of her rework, or they can get the benefits of the tree. It's not like shes absolutely awful, her tree is still better than Wolfgangs tree, for example. It's never gonna be the absolute perfect tree. You have to be reasonable, like anybody who thinks the tree needs to be scrapped and re-done for example is completely out of their mind, they ain't gonna do it. Best everyone can do now is be constructive of how they want the tree to be and to keep in mind Klei wants to keep it balanced. We all have gripes with the game, hell knows I do, but you gotta learn to live with 'em.

[somethin]

9 minutes ago, A Pufferfish said:

anybody who thinks the tree needs to be scrapped and re-done for example is completely out of their mind

This is a thing a lot of people here needs to understand. Unless the skill tree is completely horrible with almost no redeeming qualities like the one Wormwood got before the revised one there is zero need to redone the whole tree. Wendy get lots of new stuff from the tree, and it ain't remotely close to being bad. People argue she have a hard time killing bosses but in my experience she still absolutely demolish bosses? And that's me playing without ornery beefalo too since I hate taming a beefalo. Even the one people said she struggles with like 3rd phase cc I still don't have problems with since potions exist. I... don't get people sometimes. At this point the only skill trees that need to be revised is basically Wilson and Wolfgang at this point. And it's not because the tree is bad, but because it's extremely boring.

[Yifei_]

500 votes. 330 very dissatisfied (66%). 86 dissatisfied (17%). 46 neutral (9%). 8 satisfied (2%). 30 very satisfied (6%).

[usagiP]

Data outside the forum is meaningful. Even if this data seems a bit exaggerated (in reality, it is real data), it comes from player feedback and is just as valuable as the feedback from friends already in the forum
I believe the developers are paying attention to what's happening in the forum, including this thread. More feedback is never a bad thing

Regardless of whether you are satisfied or dissatisfied with Wendy's skill tree, or if you think it is just average, during polls, everyone is the same; they are merely part of the numbers marked on the options. In this case, we should respect every single number, not overlook the minority, and not ignore the majority

[somethin]

At this point the only true course of action is for Klei to NOT listen to anyone and let them do their own thing. It will end badly, but since everyone suffers, I am pleased with the result  /s

[Cassielu]

On 12/11/2024 at 9:35 AM, WenericMember said:

Yes because Wortoxs"souls heal more" or walter getting a third speed reduction round has so much hidden depth

The forum post was a brief intro, a comprehensive breakdown would be wasteful. Wendy needs petals for graves and sisturn. Petals are ultimately sourced from live butterflies, Abigail is good at making dead butterflies. Bridge the gap with new skill, which has synergy with shadow 3. For a tier 1 skill thats immenselybwell thought out. Woodie, who has the best skill tree, had a similar skill that was "cut boards more efficiently"

I think its undoutable theres at least a bit of a double standard.

The cause and effect here is that people look for hidden design details because they are quite meaningless on the surface (those you listed). Wortox and Woodie's skills are already meaningful on the surface to warrant no such treatment.

 

Edit: The following two paragraphs are my personal thoughts on this skill, which may be a bit off topic.

I'm sure the designers considered all of these things you listed when they decided to give Wendy this skill. But that's where I think he's stupid and disappointed to him: He chose to imprison Wendy's skilltree to a monotonous and limited small game cycle of single character, single item, rather than having it join a larger game cycle of dozens of gameplay options throughout the whole game world. This is no improvement on the shroud that was removed earlier.

Also, just from an in-game practical point of view, you (and probably the designers) seem still forget how fast flowers regrown and the fact that Wickerbottom now has a book that can complete control over the flowers regrown.

[WenericMember]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

The cause and effect here is that people look for hidden design details because they are quite meaningless on the surface (those you listed). Wortox and Woodie's skills are already meaningful on the surface to warrant no such treatment.

 

Edit: The following two paragraphs are my personal thoughts on this skill, which may be a bit off topic.

I'm sure the designers considered all of these things you listed when they decided to give Wendy this skill. But that's where I think he's stupid and disappointed to him: He chose to imprison Wendy's skilltree to a monotonous and limited small game cycle of single character, single item, rather than having it join a larger game cycle of dozens of gameplay options throughout the whole game world. This is no improvement on the shroud that was removed earlier.

Also, just from an in-game practical point of view, you (and probably the designers) seem still forget how fast flowers regrown and the fact that Wickerbottom now has a book that can complete control over the flowers regrown.

The thing is her tree does have that. Team spirit, mg crafts, headstones, first two potions and alignment are all significant. Theyre just weak in theor current state.  So propose buffs instead of blaming a completely reasonable skill.

Also, wickerbottom should not be the basis for Wendys balance. None of my friends play her, so its no use to me. Also, flower regrowth is fine and alll, but its not fast enough to keep up with nf production, sisturn and anything else people want petals for. Especially if you arent basing in a biome with flowers, like the oasis.

[Yifei_]

1 hour ago, Deactive41year said:

Oh ok, so I'm still racist. Great.

Mind you the chinese are extremely racist towards most races in general (especially dark skintone races) but IG they only represent a "Small Majority".

As for the first and second images.

#1: I consider that one character development. Only got taken down because it was mass reported but I was never warned for it.

As for #2: I'll own up for it, its not kleis responsibility to have to region lock, its mine. Instead of shutting people out, I'll shut myself out.

Also oh also mind you it was only deleted and shut down after I said the 3 words of doom so there was that. Which again I own up to, shouldn't have remotely said those.

Also cannot guess your point of origin

So you're safe for now, get on my nerves and I'll just block you anyways lol. After all it's only fair right?

Do not get a haircut here.
别在这理发店，喜欢歧视和扣帽子的滚远点。

After voting for two days: Total 543. Very Satisfied 31 (6%). Satisfied 9 (2%).  Neutral 50 (9%), Dissatisfied 94 (17%), Very dissatisfied 359 (66%).

[Anis5240]

22 minutes ago, Yifei_ said:

After voting for two days: Total 543. Very Satisfied 31 (6%). Satisfied 9 (2%).  Neutral 50 (9%), Dissatisfied 94 (17%), Very dissatisfied 359 (66%).

How do the Chinese players feel that the update is postponed now? It's only gonna be continued within second week of January at my guess.

[Yifei_]

43 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

How do the Chinese players feel that the update is postponed now? It's only gonna be continued within second week of January at my guess.

Based on my observation, some players are happy about the delay as it ensures quality, while others feel a bit disappointed because they can’t experience the skill trees (mainly Wortox’s skill tree) in the December. Some players are curious whether the official update will be available around the Lunar New Year (late January).