I hope these wortox's skills could be merged

[arubaro]

Some of wortox's skills are filler to make upper good skills expensive to get.  Is clear and, by itself, isnt a bad design.

Im talking about these: 

These 4 perks give pretty underpowered buffs like souls staying more time, souls coming at you faster.. stuff that could be merged into 2 perks instead of 4

So the problem comes when you notice that, in order to get something useful, you need to expend atleast 3 skill points. 3 for just getting a situational aoe damage or a small extra heal restoration.

This also brings the problem of having little variety of skill trees combinations since, once you invest 1 point in one of these branch you need to finish it in order to feel an improvement, you will never get the initial 2 perks if you arent going to get the final ones

This is worst for the nice side since an entire branch is dedicated to multiplayer and only the last one for non noob players. So an experience player wikk only find useful the 1st branch if they are willing to waste 3 points into giving other players a teleportation when you can achieve the same with the lazy deserter (obviously needs set up but once done...)

 

I really hope klei can come up with something more exciting than these filler perks. Right now, wortox tree, while fun, the only really fun stuff it brings are aoe damage to kill weak enemies and 2 strong perks for specific rift equipment. Out of the 3 skill trees this is the less fun

[Steorra]

Don't think so, for current skill tree of Wortox you have to make choice between many useful skills. I think this is balance.

We cannot trying to have all skill effects of what we want at same time, especially the "balance" and "choices" is a highlight thing of Wortox skill tree.

 

Also these 4 skills you mentioned is not underpower. they are good and useful. To merge them would be OP.

I guess I would only agree that to split each one line of them into two, which means then we could just learn those top skills without wasting points on current lower skills (if we dont want them. though I still want so this do no influence to me.) But this still have to adjust a bit according to balance things.

[Jazzuo]

I don't think they are bad in a way tbh, getting souls faster is not a bad thing, and tbh doesn't sinergy well with anything in the nice side, so im with you, that's kinda lame, but still is a good skill. if anything i think the nice side is overhealing most of the time, unless you play with 10 wurt with max stats or something

if you want the aoe and healing i recommend this skill tree, the lifebringer 3 perk is awesome to heal, if you heal a lot of people without any the nice perks is 50 healing for everyone is kinda nuts, but yeah if you go with soul bastion 1 that has the second wave healing, is already 150 health every twintailed heart with healing 5 per people so yeah i mean is kinda nuts but yeah probably i would like something in the nice side to do with overhealing or something, like if you heal more than the health you or anyone has, you idk recover more sanity per soul or something

[Argwarn]

I've seen players who heavily favor the nice side of his tree
Tbh the only part I would change is souls moving faster towards him ,niche perk

[Dingle]

I'm more disappointed by all the "you must have 5 points" locks in his tree. It really makes me avoid getting either alignment bonus.

[Steorra]

1 hour ago, Shining Galaxy said:

Now, Arubaro's favorite "OP" has become a boomerang.

but tbh those 4 skills are far higher quality that most Wendy have in current stage, to merge them is a true OP

 

[Jakepeng99]

3 hours ago, arubaro said:

Some of wortox's skills are filler to make upper good skills expensive to get.  Is clear and, by itself, isnt a bad design.

Im talking about these: 

These 4 perks give pretty underpowered buffs like souls staying more time, souls coming at you faster.. stuff that could be merged into 2 perks instead of 4

So the problem comes when you notice that, in order to get something useful, you need to expend atleast 3 skill points. 3 for just getting a situational aoe damage or a small extra heal restoration.

This also brings the problem of having little variety of skill trees combinations since, once you invest 1 point in one of these branch you need to finish it in order to feel an improvement, you will never get the initial 2 perks if you arent going to get the final ones

This is worst for the nice side since an entire branch is dedicated to multiplayer and only the last one for non noob players. So an experience player wikk only find useful the 1st branch if they are willing to waste 3 points into giving other players a teleportation when you can achieve the same with the lazy deserter (obviously needs set up but once done...)

 

I really hope klei can come up with something more exciting than these filler perks. Right now, wortox tree, while fun, the only really fun stuff it brings are aoe damage to kill weak enemies and 2 strong perks for specific rift equipment. Out of the 3 skill trees this is the less fun

No

[purelove]

He looks great

While everyone says Wendy gets too much attention, it seems Wendy's skill tree is the weakest

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

but tbh those 4 skills are far higher quality that most Wendy have in current stage, to merge them is a true OP

 

Lol

[Koomin]

The confusing one is the second clone skill which just makes it last longer.  I've not been able to find a use case for it at all.

[Dingle]

Just now, Koomin said:

The confusing one is the second clone skill which just makes it last longer.  I've not been able to find a use case for it at all.

I want to check this out again as I think the last update buffed the clone a little for getting aggro, off top of head.

[Koomin]

15 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I want to check this out again as I think the last update buffed the clone a little for getting aggro, off top of head.

If it gets aggro though it gets hit and dies, making the lasting longer part still not do anything.  Is there a use case anyone has found?  The other skills pointed out in this thread as least do something (whether they should be combined or not).

[Steorra]

29 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Lol

I don't know what's wrong to say OP to a member who always say that in this forum.

Don't be double standard hypocrite.

If you can not accept some against voices, just go to stop the problem source at the first place.

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, Koomin said:

If it gets aggro though it gets hit and dies, making the lasting longer part still not do anything.  Is there a use case anyone has found?  The other skills pointed out in this thread as least do something (whether they should be combined or not).

Not really so far. I flip back and forth on not getting the clone, just to free up some points.

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

I don't know what's wrong to say OP to a member who always say that in this forum.

Don't be double standard hypocrite.

If you can not accept some against voices, just go to stop the problem source at the first place.

Sorry, I just thought your claim of most of Wendy's perks being much worse than the 4 worst Wortox filler perks was especially silly of you.

[Steorra]

Also if someone think to be OP is "good and selfish", what about to make your favorite character to have both insane DPS & ez AOE but at the same time to make them very easily to lost those advantage and become Wes with boring skill trees?

Seems someone would say no silently and keeping act like a hypocrite for their selfish psychology lol.

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Not really so far. I flip back and forth on not getting the clone, just to free up some points.

Sorry, I just thought your claim of most of Wendy's perks being much worse than the 4 worst Wortox filler perks was especially silly of you.

Sorry, I comparing with the whole skill trees. 

what about to tell Klei to exchange Wortox and Wendy's designer and let them redesign their skill tree? I would gladly to accept. Don't know if you dare to be honestly to this question.

Seems someone just prefer to be troll and hypocrite but they won't accept to exchange Wendy & Wortox skill tree designer, even to exchange some skill for just these 4 they would say no as well. 

Wow, such dishonest for just a forum "win". 

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Also if someone think to be OP is "good and selfish", what about to make your favorite character to have both insane DPS & ez AOE but at the same time to make them very easily to lost those advantage and become Wes with boring skill trees?

Seems someone would say no silently and keeping act like a hypocrite for their selfish psychology lol.

Sorry, I comparing with the whole skill trees. 

what about to tell Klei to exchange Wortox and Wendy's designer and let them redesign their skill tree? I would gladly to accept. Don't know if you dare to be honestly to this question.

Oh sure, I will take the trade. I think Klei is doing a great job with both characters!

As for the other stuff, sounds like I'm upsetting you? I dont mean to pick on you specifically, I just comment sometimes if I see something that seems disingenuous.

[Steorra]

43 minutes ago, purelove said:

He looks great

While everyone says Wendy gets too much attention, it seems Wendy's skill tree is the weakest

not the weakest tbh because Wendy have that silly Shadow sisterhood II.

Wendy may have a most funny and boring skill tree.

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Oh sure, I will take the trade. I think Klei is doing a great job with both characters!

As for the other stuff, sounds like I'm upsetting you? I dont mean to pick on you specifically, I just comment sometimes if I see something that seems disingenuous.

Double standard would fiss me off ofc. I won't say more hate speech here. 

[arubaro]

Is hilarious how the forum got riot because wendy had filler perks but now is okey to have 4 useless perks and little combinations in wortox, which is a way weaker character

[Steorra]

14 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Is hilarious how the forum got riot because wendy had filler perks but now is okey to have 4 useless perks and little combinations in wortox, which is a way weaker character

it seems not only me who think those skills are not useless. 

the world is not your papa and mama who have duty to feed your narcissism.

Especially when you have a silly obviously double standard between what your like & dislike

[OMEGASCRUFF]

It's not a lot of flexibility, but it's enough. Overwhelming Greed isn't necessary, and I'm not sure why you have Reverberation with either alignment. You can also drop Soul Decoy for Life Bringer III too for burst healing + friend teleports. Though I think skipping Capricious Movement is a bit nutty, but I guess you can just make up the difference with another Soul Jar on hand (ugh.)

It's tight, but with the current conflicts of interest that exist in his tree, and Neutral skills still being worthless, it's pretty doable to make a good build for your situation. I do hate losing the entirety of Soul Decoy for the DPS drop, if I want to take Life Bringer III for my friends before I set up Lazy Deserters everywhere.

Just now, arubaro said:

Is hilarious how the forum got riot because wendy had filler perks but now is okey to have 4 useless perks and little combinations in wortox, which is a way weaker character

Don't be dishonest. We both know Lunar Abigail is going to change. This is a beta.

Wortox is top tier now. You're just expected to actually play the game with him. He has no meaningful downsides and his upsides save more time than every single character, while also providing immense utility in multiplayer. His DPS, while nothing insane, is enough to get the job done faster than any other character because of the lack of prep he requires, instant travel anywhere you want, little to no cost in armor, with no real limitations on his mechanics. But yeah, he kills Misery Toadstool slower than Wanda. Yup, must be weak.

Just wait until unseeded speedruns and boss rushes come out. It'll be pretty obvious how insanely efficient and non-threatened by anything he is now.

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

it seems not only me think those skills are not useless. 

the world is not your papa and mama who have duty to feed your narcissism.

Is there a reason this person repetitively is posting insults and personal attacks in multiple threads. This is really not appropriate 

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

It's not a lot of flexibility, but it's enough. Overwhelming Greed isn't necessary, and I'm not sure why you have Reverberation with either alignment. You can also drop Soul Decoy for Life Bringer III too for burst healing + friend teleports. Though I think skipping Capricious Movement is a bit nutty, but I guess you can just make up the difference with another Soul Jar on hand (ugh.)

It's tight, but with the current conflicts of interest that exist in his tree, and Neutral skills still being worthless, it's pretty doable to make a good build for your situation. I do hate losing the entirety of Soul Decoy for the DPS drop, if I want to take Life Bringer III for my friends before I set up Lazy Deserters everywhere.

Don't be dishonest. We both know Lunar Abigail is going to change. This is a beta.

Wortox is top tier now. You're just expected to actually play the game with him. He has no meaningful downsides and his upsides save more time than every single character, while also providing immense utility in multiplayer. His DPS, while nothing insane, is enough to get the job done faster than any other character because of the lack of prep he requires, instant travel anywhere you want, little to no cost in armor, with no real limitations on his mechanics. But yeah, he kills Misery Toadstool slower than Wanda. Yup, must be weak.

Just wait until unseeded speedruns and boss rushes come out. It'll be pretty obvious how insanely efficient and non-threatened by anything he is now.

I considered overwhelming greed a must have for farming and general convenience, but maybe the naughty bonus makes it less harsh to skip for me. I need to test still.

Reverberation is too nice to drop for me, for early game exploring if nothing else. It does conflict a lot with decoy, still.

I was actually thinking of dropping Capricious. Again, a bitter choice.

I am interested to see where he ends up in speedrun rankings. I think its harder to say, as even Wanda doesn't show up much anymore, I think.

[cyjs]

39 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Is hilarious how the forum got riot because wendy had filler perks but now is okey to have 4 useless perks and little combinations in wortox, which is a way weaker character

In my opinion, Wendy's three grave skills, one area fear skill, the fourth potion skill, and the last shadow skill, a total of six, are useless, but this is just my personal opinion, and at the same time, this is also yours personal opinion. So what are our standards? Is this what you stipulated? What if I said I thought it was funny?

23 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Is there a reason this person repetitively is posting insults and personal attacks in multiple threads. This is really not appropriate 

Mr. Arubaro also often makes racist remarks. Please don’t ignore him.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

I considered overwhelming greed a must have for farming and general convenience, but maybe the naughty bonus makes it less harsh to skip for me. I need to test still.

Reverberation is too nice to drop for me, for early game exploring if nothing else. It does conflict a lot with decoy, still.

I was actually thinking of dropping Capricious. Again, a bitter choice.

I am interested to see where he ends up in speedrun rankings. I think its harder to say, as even Wanda doesn't show up much anymore, I think.

Right, but don't forget how easily and early he can set up the Celestial Portal for a skill change. I adjust my skills a bit for early game as well, mostly for Reverberation over alignment until I get my precious scythe. Reverberation is crazy, CRAZY good, it just has bad synergy with Decoy and either alignment and unfortunately should probably end up being dropped eventually because of that.

Overwhelming Greed is definitely skippable, since all it really does it expand your on-hand inventory by 10-20+. With a few Soul Jars, it doesn't really mean too much, especially now that we have some grace period for the overloading issue. The Naughty perk is actually amazing for mass-farming, as you can kill even larger groups of enemies and have a good amount of time to stow their Souls away. The 40 cap is nice to have for sure, though, and I try to take it if I can, but it can be sacrificed if the alternatives are crucial for your build.

It is a tight skill tree, for sure. But it seems workable with the 15 Insight we have, while staying focused on your intention behind the build.

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Right, but don't forget how easily and early he can set up the Celestial Portal for a skill change. I adjust my skills a bit for early game as well, mostly for Reverberation over alignment until I get my precious scythe. Reverberation is crazy, CRAZY good, it just has bad synergy with Decoy and either alignment and unfortunately should probably end up being dropped eventually because of that.

Overwhelming Greed is definitely skippable, since all it really does it expand your on-hand inventory by 10. With a few Soul Jars, it doesn't really mean too much, especially now that we have some grace period for the overloading issue. The Naughty perk is actually amazing for mass-farming, as you can kill even larger groups of enemies and have a good amount of time to stow their Souls away. The 40 cap is nice to have for sure, though, and I try to take it if I can, but it can be sacrificed if the alternatives are crucial for your build.

It is a tight skill tree, for sure. But it seems workable with the 15 Insight we have, while staying focused on your intention behind the build.

How many seconds does the Naughty bonus give you?

I didn't forget the portal, I just get to setting it up pretty late nowadays with all the other stuff I have to do. Notably, Pearl quests take moonrock, too. So the portal is usually post CC for me.