If you think some skill tree is bad and OP, just don't learn it.

[Steorra]

Since ppls think that when you have to facing a bad design, if there is an option for on & off is available, then there's no problem.

Then I have to say, for those who worrying / confusing about the skill trees of Wendy/Winona/Wurt/etc..., if you don't like an OP skill tree, you could just ignore those OP skills and don't touch them, then "problem solved".

 

Don't be hypocrite with double standard when facing these two issue, they are same when we talking about "bad design". 

If you think to turn off a bad designed world setting off is a solution to those who dislike them, then don't touch those OP skill is also OK for those who don't like imbalance, or even you could set your own rules for your own high difficulty game experience.

[Anis5240]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

if you don't like an OP skill tree, you could just ignore those OP skills and don't touch them, then "problem solved".

The thing is there's also the braindead skills like torch tree and gym perk. Like you really expect people to actually use those????? Especially about the former; like god I still wanna go mad at Klei for saying they don't want to fix it "cuz of powercreep". Like WX having night vision just by scanning moleworms day 1 ain't broken???

So everyone will just end up using the better ones anyway.

[Steorra]

this thread is for questioning why it seems there are a double standard when we debate on same topic (which I called as "bad design")

I hope ppls could at least ensure their coherency when we discuss something. Or the discuss would just be emotional fighting and become meaningless.

2 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

The thing is there's also the braindead skills like torch tree and gym perk. Like you really expect people to actually use those????? Especially about the former; like god I still wanna go mad at Klei for saying they don't want to fix it "cuz of powercreep". Like WX having night vision just by scanning moleworms day 1 ain't broken???

So everyone will just end up using the better ones anyway.

I do agree with that those braindead skills need to rework. 

[cropo]

Pretty simple, though not sure if Klei ever intended it to be seen this way.


Skill trees are a natural part of the game now, future content is likely going to be developed with it in mind and it's not some mod or something. It's an organic part of progression, it doesn't feel good at all to just "not use it" because it's problematic. You would be doing the unnatural thing by ignoring it, turning your game into a challenge run. Why does it need to be this way when it can be properly balanced and have its use more suited to enhancing the game rather than just letting you kill everything?

This is different from something like exploiting the lureplant glitch. It's a non-invasive cheat you can use to beat certain bosses more easily, but the fact that it is a clear exploit makes it easier to "just don't use it" because using it would be the unnatural thing to do.

[arubaro]

That sounds like only feedback to unbalance the game to make it easier is welcome while people who dont want that should shut up and shot their own feet to play ignoring mechanics and content. Dumbest argument

There is other option, you can play cozy games and dont share feeback, would you like that? Why do you think only people that share your casual vision deserves to give feedback?

And this people has right to vote in government elections...

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

Pretty simple, though not sure if Klei ever intended it to be seen this way.


Skill trees are a natural part of the game now, future content is likely going to be developed with it in mind and it's not some mod or something. It's an organic part of progression, it doesn't feel good at all to just "not use it" because it's problematic. You would be doing the unnatural thing by ignoring it, turning your game into a challenge run. Why does it need to be this way when it can be properly balanced and have its use more suited to enhancing the game rather than just letting you kill everything?

This is different from something like exploiting the lureplant glitch. It's a non-invasive cheat you can use to beat certain bosses more easily, but the fact that it is a clear exploit makes it easier to "just don't use it" because using it would be the unnatural thing to do.

"turn the giant worm off" is just unnatural thing as well.

[cropo]

Just now, Steorra said:

"turn the giant worm off" is just unnatural thing as well.

Yes it is. It's an interesting threat added to the otherwise dull caves, if you don't want to suffer its wrath the responsibility is on you to turn it off. This is why there are a lot of people who want wildfires changed when they can just turn it off if they don't like it, the current system doesn't satisfy everyone but outright turning it off takes a huge chunk out of summer. 

The way things should be, is if you want a skill tree to be powerful enough to do everything for you, the responsibility should be on you to buff it through mods or world settings, not have the entire default experience change for you.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, arubaro said:

That sounds like only feedback to unbalance the game to make it easier is welcome while people who dont want that should shut up and shot their own feet to play ignoring mechanics and content. Dumbest argument

There is other option, you can play cozy games and dont share feeback, would you like that? Why do you think only people that share your casual vision deserves to give feedback?

And this people has right to vote...

the vote is only valuable who are not double standard. 

I think both "you could do not touch those OP skills" and "you could turn rictus and giant worm off" are unnaturally gameplay and they are same.

But it seems many ppls think "turn the giant worm off" is reasonable when we trying to discuss is the giant worm good or broken designed, then they would think "wow you cannot let me don't touch those OP skills that's unnaturally"

I have to say this is double standard.

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

I say the more unnatural thing about the great depths worm is the fact that I have yet to encounter it.

yeh, that's another broken thing about the giant worm.

2 minutes ago, cropo said:

Yes it is. It's an interesting threat added to the otherwise dull caves, if you don't want to suffer its wrath the responsibility is on you to turn it off. This is why there are a lot of people who want wildfires changed when they can just turn it off if they don't like it, the current system doesn't satisfy everyone but outright turning it off takes a huge chunk out of summer. 

The way things should be, is if you want a skill tree to be powerful enough to do everything for you, the responsibility should be on you to buff it through mods or world settings, not have the entire default experience change for you.

it's same for "If you think Wurt skill tree is imbalance, the responsibility should be on you to nerf it through mods or world settings, not have the entire default experience change for you"

[HellHeater]

15 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

gym perk. Like you really expect people to actually use those???

It's really useful ok? If you mean the automatic gym thing then yea I agree.

[arubaro]

4 minutes ago, Steorra said:

vote is only valuable who are not double standard. 

I think both "you could do not touch those OP skills" and "you could turn rictus and giant worm off" are unnaturally gameplay and they are same.

But it seems many ppls think "turn the giant worm off" is reasonable when we trying to discuss is the giant worm good or broken designed, then they would think "wow you cannot let me don't touch those OP skills that's unnaturally"

I have to say this is double standard.

That people suggesting to turn off the worm are being as... unwise as the ones asking people to ignore other parts of gameplay

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

"If you think Wurt skill tree is imbalance, the responsibility should be on you to nerf it through mods or world settings, not have the entire default experience change for you"

Alright so the bottom line here is that this game is supposed to be hard and challenging. While you're technically right that these are the same things, the people wanting a harder and more balanced experience as the default have the bigger say here because the game isn't supposed to be super easy.

Having Wurts skill tree be so broken as the default experience is far worse than having it be balanced to match the default experience that players have come to expect from this game.

[Anis5240]

4 minutes ago, HellHeater said:

If you mean the automatic gym thing then yea I agree.

Yes, the stupid 5 tier gym perks. And to be honest, why the hell Klei wanna drag out such boring stats boosts anyway??? Are they so out of ideas they can't think of better things that suit him????

[HellHeater]

1 minute ago, Anis5240 said:

Yes, the stupid 5 tier gym perks. And to be honest, why the hell Klei wanna drag out such boring stats boosts anyway??? Are they so out of ideas they can't think of better things that suit him????

Yeah no I totally like those 5 gym perks, I was talking about the minigame canceller trash perk.

I mean what is there to do for wolfgang really, his entire gimmick is 2x wilson.

[cropo]

Just now, HellHeater said:

Yeah no I totally like those 5 gym perks, I was talking about the minigame canceller trash perk.

I mean what is there to do for wolfgang really, his entire gimmick is 2x wilson.

Picking up Koalephants and throwing them.

[HellHeater]

6 minutes ago, cropo said:

Picking up Koalephants and throwing them.

you win

[Steorra]

16 minutes ago, cropo said:

this game is supposed to be hard and challenging. 

I now have to questioning this. Was there any Klei official announcement about this?

I dont think you have the power to define "What DST should be"

[Peasant]

32 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Are you new to the forums, by any chance? It's the common way to communicate, don'tcha know?

I dont get it, you mean that as long as something is common, it's bond to be right?

[Steorra]

18 minutes ago, cropo said:

Alright so the bottom line here is that this game is supposed to be hard and challenging. While you're technically right that these are the same things, the people wanting a harder and more balanced experience as the default have the bigger say here because the game isn't supposed to be super easy.

Having Wurts skill tree be so broken as the default experience is far worse than having it be balanced to match the default experience that players have come to expect from this game.

You have to know that some ppl think DST should be challenging and be a surviving focusing game, and others may think DST should be sandbox and building focusing game. Also there are some ppls think that DST is just a loot box game because they only play DST for the weekend gifts.

 

You CANNOT say one type of them are right but others are wrong.

[cropo]

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

I now have to questioning this. Was there any Klei official announcement about this?

I dont think you have the power to define "What DST should be"

Don't Starve was pushed in a gaming convention around 2010-2012 by Kevin Forbes, wherein he states that they had just finished Shank 2, and decided this time they would try a game where the protagonist(Wilson) was really weak, that the goal would not be to "win" the game or "defeat" the challenges, but merely try to "survive". Originally, the idea that drove Don't Starve was "constant scarcity", in a hostile world where everything was a threat to your existence. 

This has been an ongoing trend within Don't Starve, and Don't Starve Together's update history. While they dropped the ball in some areas, and outright failed to anticipate the playerbases ability to bash their head against a wall and overcome all odds, the intent of Klei's design has been known before the game was even released. There's a reason it claims it is an "uncompromising survival game" every chance it gets.

8 minutes ago, Steorra said:

You have to know that some ppl think DST should be challenging and be a surviving focusing game, and others may think DST should be sandbox and building focusing game. Also there are some ppls think that DST is just a loot box game because they only play DST for the weekend gifts.

 

You CANNOT say one type of them are right but others are wrong.

You absolutely have the right to mod and change Don't Starve to suit your needs; I think the main takeaway here is that the default experience provided by the game should try to uphold its original intentions, and that if players want the experience to be easier(or even harder) than that, they should be the ones who have to turn off parts of it, or buff through mods.

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, cropo said:

Don't Starve was pushed in a gaming convention around 2010-2012 by Kevin Forbes, wherein he states that they had just finished Shank 2, and decided this time they would try a game where the protagonist(Wilson) was really weak, that the goal would not be to "win" the game or "defeat" the challenges, but merely try to "survive". Originally, the idea that drove Don't Starve was "constant scarcity", in a hostile world where everything was a threat to your existence. 

This has been an ongoing trend within Don't Starve, and Don't Starve Together's update history. While they dropped the ball in some areas, and outright failed to anticipate the playerbases ability to bash their head against a wall and overcome all odds, the intent of Klei's design has been known before the game was even released. There's a reason it claims it is an "uncompromising survival game" every chance it gets.

I don't think this is still Okay for current game stage. Have to say you are not a member from Klei, you cannot define what DST should be.

Everyone has different opinions about what current DST should be, try to learn to respect other different voices please.

[Sacco]

So give me an option to turn off skill trees, no?

The game is meant to have a minor challenge at least, now there isn't this anymore.

It's not meant to be the hardest game in the world, but something to not steamroll all bosses in a minute alone should be done

Just now, Steorra said:

I don't think this is still Okay for current game stage. Have to say you are not a member from Klei, you cannot define what DST should be.

Everyone has different opinions about what current DST should be, try to learn to respect other different voices please.

so you should learn about people who have different opinions than you and don't call them hypocrite

[cropo]

Just now, Steorra said:

I don't think this is still Okay for current game stage. Have to say you are not a member from Klei, you cannot define what DST should be.

Everyone has different opinions about what current DST should be, try to learn to respect other different voices please.

Until Klei themselves come out and say otherwise, I am going based off of what Klei has actually stated, what their steam page advertises the game as. I am not defining the game to my own definition, but rather reciting to you what Klei has defined the game as.

[Steorra]

1 minute ago, cropo said:

Until Klei themselves come out and say otherwise, I am going based off of what Klei has actually stated, what their steam page advertises the game as. I am not defining the game to my own definition, but rather reciting to you what Klei has defined the game as.

Fundamentalism is not an acceptable reason to allow you to deny other's opinions to DST, especially it is already become a huge difference between the original DS and current DST.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

Since ppls think that when you have to facing a bad design, if there is an option for on & off is available, then there's no problem.

Then I have to say, for those who worrying / confusing about the skill trees of Wendy/Winona/Wurt/etc..., if you don't like an OP skill tree, you could just ignore those OP skills and don't touch them, then "problem solved".

 

Don't be hypocrite with double standard when facing these two issue, they are same when we talking about "bad design". 

If you think to turn off a bad designed world setting off is a solution to those who dislike them, then don't touch those OP skill is also OK for those who don't like imbalance, or even you could set your own rules for your own high difficulty game experience.

Didnt ask.

 

(Thats what "just done use it" is on level with. Its not constructive)

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Sacco said:

So give me an option to turn off skill trees, no?

The game is meant to have a minor challenge at least, now there isn't this anymore.

It's not meant to be the hardest game in the world, but something to not steamroll all bosses in a minute alone should be done

so you should learn about people who have different opinions than you and don't call them hypocrite

Sorry, but double standard is hypocrite. 

If you have double standard on some same thing just because one thing is what you like but other is not, then you are hypocrite and there's no doubt.

 

You have an "option" to "DO NOT TOUCH" those skill trees you don't like, but for now you have no option to make the skill tree to change just because "wow I don't like it it is OP it should nerf (in my own view)"