Why everyone seems to panic over an unbalanced character?

[Sacco]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Yeah. 

The thing is, if Klei nerfed and rebalanced her, there would be some people moaning about it, going "Wurt's useless now! Wurt is ruined!" without looking at the changes beyond a first glance. Though, i believe if Klei basically let them suck it up and whine for a bit, they will end up realising if the change was justified and if it really made Wurt bad, or a better more fun character. Honestly, out of all the skilltrees, Wurt's might be the only one i believe needs a rework. The combat focused direction was a huge mistake, they cant make Webber different from her without making Webber even more crazy, since spiders are combat focused.

The same thing apparently happened with the bunnymen nerf.

Wurt has never been a noobie friendly character to the eyes of most players due to her hunger perk... which is honestly not horrible at all, especially because she gets 33% more hunger from veggies, which is kind of busted nowadays with all the resources which can grow in winter.

I remember playing her before all the plants could grow in winter ans even before her first rework (which were just buffs).

Merms were very very good against bosses and to farm resources, but at the same time food in winter was a great problem and you needed to assist your merms while fighting if you wanted to win.

[Jakepeng99]

11 minutes ago, Sacco said:

Skill trees would be cool if they gave some new ways to play with actual downsides to play around and upsides.

They experimented with this in Wortox's skilltree which i really like. Though, they are very one sided.

 

Having mostly naughty skills makes you heal and gain less sainity from souls, but not lose any sainity from eating them (honestly kinda trash tradeoff)

Being nice does the opposite. (More healing and sainity gain, but double sainity loss from eating souls, which is a pointless downside when you gain more from dropping them)

[Gytre]

Just now, arubaro said:

Okey...woodie and wormwood uninteresting lol 

They are interesting but weak. Moose without skills was worse than fighting normally, beaver was useless skill tree didn't really fix that but atleast you can fight daywalker before ruins, goose was useful for ocean and world exploration sadly has only one good skill others are useless. Moonstorms were annoying for woodie and that was really bad. Skill tree added cool skills like: Weremoose mastery, curse embracer, transformation 1,2,3,The werebeaver 3, The weregoose 1, treeguard feller 1,2,3, Cane carving and both affinities are good. All of these skills these make Woodie more fun to play.

Wormwood before skill tree had really small amount of useful perks like crafting living logs, bramble husk, easier farming and blooming. His skill tree added some worth to him with skills like: bee kind, moon shroom cloud, lunar cultivator 1,2,3, bramble trap specialist, bramble husk specialist, and lunar guardian 1,2. All of these skills are useful skills which make Wormwood more fun to play.

[Sacco]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They experimented with this in Wortox's skilltree which i really like. Though, they are very one sided.

 

Having mostly naughty skills makes you heal and gain less sainity from souls, but not lose any sainity from eating them (honestly kinda trash tradeoff)

Being nice does the opposite. (More healing and sainity gain, but double sainity loss from eating souls, which is a pointless downside when you gain more from dropping them)

as klei stated, they want to make these features more interesting and in depth.

 

[Jakepeng99]

2 minutes ago, Gytre said:

They are interesting but weak. Moose without skills was worse than fighting normally, beaver was useless skill tree didn't really fix that but atleast you can fight daywalker before ruins, goose was useful for ocean and world exploration sadly has only one good skill others are useless. Moonstorms were annoying for woodie and that was really bad. Skill tree added cool skills like: Weremoose mastery, curse embracer, transformation 1,2,3,The werebeaver 3, The weregoose 1, treeguard feller 1,2,3, Cane carving and both affinities are good. All of these skills these make Woodie more fun to play.

Wormwood before skill tree had really small amount of useful perks like crafting living logs, bramble husk, easier farming and blooming. His skill tree added some worth to him with skills like: bee kind, moon shroom cloud, lunar cultivator 1,2,3, bramble trap specialist, bramble husk specialist, and lunar guardian 1,2. All of these skills are useful skills which make Wormwood more fun to play.

I believe wormwood is fine mostly, Woodie would be fine if he had a decent downside. His only downside is slightly faster overheating in Summer.

[Sacco]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I believe wormwood is fine mostly, Woodie would be fine if he had a decent downside. His only downside is slightly faster overheating in Summer.

Woodie really needs a downside at least attached to his weremoose...

it's too polarizing in gameplay, which to a certain extent is good, but you can kill almost all bosses with him

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Sacco said:

Woodie really needs a downside at least attached to his weremoose...

it's too polarizing in gameplay, which to a certain extent is good, but you can kill almost all bosses with him

They could revert the speed buff, and make him slow again.

But, i believe the true way to nerf were moose is adding some sort of resource intake. Its 3 monster meat and 2 grass to beat a majority of bosses in the game, often more effectively than in human form. They balanced the moose for post riff, yet its accessible day 1 for that price.

Make it that we have to upgrade the moose idol with harder to get materials, like moon glass and stuff.

[arubaro]

10 minutes ago, Gytre said:

They are interesting but weak. Moose without skills was worse than fighting normally, beaver was useless skill tree didn't really fix that but atleast you can fight daywalker before ruins, goose was useful for ocean and world exploration sadly has only one good skill others are useless. Moonstorms were annoying for woodie and that was really bad. Skill tree added cool skills like: Weremoose mastery, curse embracer, transformation 1,2,3,The werebeaver 3, The weregoose 1, treeguard feller 1,2,3, Cane carving and both affinities are good. All of these skills these make Woodie more fun to play.

Wormwood before skill tree had really small amount of useful perks like crafting living logs, bramble husk, easier farming and blooming. His skill tree added some worth to him with skills like: bee kind, moon shroom cloud, lunar cultivator 1,2,3, bramble trap specialist, bramble husk specialist, and lunar guardian 1,2. All of these skills are useful skills which make Wormwood more fun to play.

Wormwood and woodie weak... sure compared to the non sense of lately they were weak

[Sacco]

13 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

They could revert the speed buff, and make him slow again.

But, i believe the true way to nerf were moose is adding some sort of resource intake. Its 3 monster meat and 2 grass to beat a majority of bosses in the game, often more effectively than in human form. They balanced the moose for post riff, yet its accessible day 1 for that price.

Make it that we have to upgrade the moose idol with harder to get materials, like moon glass and stuff.

yeah, i actually had that idea.

I thought that affinities would have given you two different idol upgrades.

Shadow idols and Lunar idols being post rifts upgrades as the second step of your affinities, as the first step you'd unlock boosts while in your wereform (like when weremoose a special shadow creature would spawn and fight for you)

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Sacco said:

yeah, i actually had that idea.

I thought that affinities would have given you two different idol upgrades.

Shadow idols and Lunar idols being post rifts upgrades as the second step of your affinities, as the first step you'd unlock boosts while in you were form (like when weremoose a special shadow creatures would spawn and fight for you)

I remember when i was little, my child fantasy for a Woodie rework would be making moon glass idols to turn into moon glass alternatives to the default ones.

 

The glass moose would be a glass cannon, faster attacks using its pointy glass daggers on its fists. Its charge would leave behind a trail of shattering glass (like the spiders). He would be 10% faster too, but has less defence than the normal moose.

The moon glass goose i didnt have any ideas really. I had an idea of what a moonglass beaver would look like. The moonglass beaver would dig up an area using its moonglass teeth and be better at mining. (Actually sorta close to what we got for beaver)

[Mysterious box]

42 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Yeah. 

The thing is, if Klei nerfed and rebalanced her, there would be some people moaning about it, going "Wurt's useless now! Wurt is ruined!" without looking at the changes beyond a first glance. Though, i believe if Klei basically let them suck it up and whine for a bit, they will end up realising if the change was justified and if it really made Wurt bad, or a better more fun character. Honestly, out of all the skilltrees, Wurt's might be the only one i believe needs a rework. The combat focused direction was a huge mistake, they cant make Webber different from her without making Webber even more crazy, since spiders are combat focused.

The same thing apparently happened with the bunnymen nerf.

Personally I feel like a universal character nerf should probably happen since the game is becoming more about what your character's abilities do rather than actually growing with the gear you obtain through efforts. Of course this won't happen because obviously there would be a lot of outrage from all parties but it is what it is I guess.

[Jakepeng99]

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I feel like a universal character nerf should probably happen since the game is becoming more about what your character's abilities do rather than actually growing with the gear you obtain through efforts. Of course this won't happen because obviously there would be a lot of outrage from all parties but it is what it is I guess.

Now downsides have became "What you dont have that other characters dont" than what your character struggles with.

6 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Of course this won't happen because obviously there would be a lot of outrage from all parties but it is what it is I guess.

I feel like alot of people would settle after being left with it for awhile.

[arubaro]

9 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I feel like alot of people would settle after being left with it for awhile.

Agree. Meanwhile there are people getting bored of the constant powercreep that makes a lot of fights = use op perk while holding F

[Mysterious box]

11 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I feel like alot of people would settle after being left with it for awhile.

They would but the question would be would klei want to backpedal and would they be willing to endure the backlash it would cause until things settled down since we're already sorta past the slippery slope however the way I see it this beta will probably be the biggest determining factor as to whether or not we get character refreshes part 3 as this will likely lead to the next ones going even more crazy because it could lead to a lot more people becoming unsatisfied with the previous skill trees and while that does sound silly at this point we gotta remember that by most people's standards Willow's refresh was considered good by most of community until later refreshes "made it bad".

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, cropo said:

"Just don't use it" is a good argument in a lot of cases,

I agree with most of your post but cant with this. Is used many times and no, isnt a good argument to defend bad designs

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Agree. Meanwhile there are people getting bored of the constant powercreep that makes a lot of fights = use op perk while holding F

Out of all the op characters, i like Maxwell the most since he is at least op by not just holding f. He is kinda like Woodie were a better downside would be the best way to balance him. (Forget the shadow cage exists for a sec which is so broken)

1 hour ago, Mysterious box said:

Personally I feel like a universal character nerf should probably happen since the game is becoming more about what your character's abilities do rather than actually growing with the gear you obtain through efforts.

I thought about this a little more and its kinda true. 

[Peasant]

 

9 hours ago, Cheggf said:

If character balance doesn't matter why do you want her to become stronger? 

If character balance do matter why dont you want her to be stronger?

In any case this still doesnt answer my question. My point is that since there is very little probability that a new unbalanced character would be created, especially when it comes to an already strong character which even made klei decide not to give a very powerful skilltree when designing, there is no need to worry for that.

[Fufuji]

All of her abilities are about fighting, just like Wolfgang. She has barely any exclusive abilities to farm items or to help other survivors.

Please make her fight like Wolfgang. Don't deprive her characteristics.

[GamePlayer42]

15 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

All of her abilities are about fighting, just like Wolfgang. She has barely any exclusive abilities to farm items or to help other survivors.

Please make her fight like Wolfgang. Don't deprive her characteristics.

?

[gaymime]

30 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

All of her abilities are about fighting, just like Wolfgang. She has barely any exclusive abilities to farm items or to help other survivors.

Please make her fight like Wolfgang. Don't deprive her characteristics.

that is super disrespectful to her lore. she is not a fighter and should not be turned into a fighter. this is NOT a pvp fighter game

[Fufuji]

5 minutes ago, gaymime said:

that is super disrespectful to her lore. she is not a fighter and should not be turned into a fighter. this is NOT a pvp fighter game

Isn't she firstly a video game character then a little girl who lives only in her lores? Ruining Wendy mains' game experience doesn't bring Wendy any characteristic completment.

[gaymime]

13 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Isn't she firstly a video game character then a little girl who lives only in her lores? Ruining Wendy mains' game experience doesn't bring Wendy any characteristic completment.

her main game experience does not have her fighting because wendy is not a fighter. if she is firstly a videogame character then do not forget the videogame she is a character in; dst says "abigail fights. wendy should not fight." you forcing her to fight anyway does not make it correct. saying she has to become a fighter because you want her to be a fighter is silly. last week everything about her said "wendy is not a fighter. use another way" next week should NOT be "wendy is a fighter and should also be the strongest best fighter"

[Fufuji]

7 minutes ago, gaymime said:

abigail fights. wendy should not fight

Making Abigail strong is literally making Wendy a fighter character. This isn't making any difference.

8 minutes ago, gaymime said:

last week everything about her said "wendy is not a fighter. use another way" next week should NOT be "wendy is a fighter and should also be the strongest best fighter"

All of these come from active and loyal players of DST or Wendy. Suggestions need to be taken into consideration, and this is up to Klei, isn't up to any of us.

[WenericMember]

23 minutes ago, gaymime said:

 "wendy is not a fighter. use another way"

When fighting with Abigail due to vex, Wendy has had a multiplier that makes her stronger than Wilson. She's had that for years.

It itsn't "Wendy isn't a fighter, use another way." its "Wendy is a capable fighter when supported by Abigail, so keep them both alive instead of fighting alone."

[gaymime]

24 minutes ago, Fufuji said:

Making Abigail strong is literally making Wendy a fighter character. This isn't making any difference.

All of these come from active and loyal players of DST or Wendy. Suggestions need to be taken into consideration, and this is up to Klei, isn't up to any of us.

no. making abigail strong makes wendy a competitive character. most people are also not asking for stronger abigail, they are asking for stronger wendy. people want wendy to deal more damage and to be stronger and have better numbers. making wendy stronger is disrespectful to her character and to her character's lore. if people were only saying "make abigail stronger" i would not say anything at all no matter how i felt about it.

it is not up to any of us BUT what we say will make a difference with what klei thinks. if klei only hears people telling them that this very popular character needs to be a strong fighter like wolfgang or wanda then klei might just change this character to be a strong fighter. if klei changes a character that is not a fighter into a fighter then it is reasonable to expect they will throw away other character's lore to make them fighters too. i do not want my favourite characters made much worse because "don't starve together" has become "do fight always"

 

19 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

When fighting with Abigail due to vex, Wendy has had a multiplier that makes her stronger than Wilson. She's had that for years.

It itsn't "Wendy isn't a fighter, use another way." its "Wendy is a capable fighter when supported by Abigail, so keep them both alive instead of fighting alone."

except we are not talking about making her stronger than wilson. people want her to be the strongest character. they want her to be wolfgang because they want to be wolfgang without looking like wolfgang and without giving up abigail