Out of curiosity, by what metric is Wendy judged as a "powerful" character, but not Wigfrid?

[AliceMagtron]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

Can't read your chart very well (using my smartphone) but the x0.75 multiplier sticks out as being quite a bit dishonest. You know that Abi buffs Wendy's damage to x1.15 and also has her own attack, right? (Gestalt trades in Abi's AoE for x10 on herself. Also apparently dodges attacks better.)

but its same, u can also trigger abis atk buff to about x1.54 and use moon line abi when u ride on beefalo. so thats not the reason. also moon line abi is ez to loss atk buff since her atk spd is badly slowed down.

 

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

Not to mention that a multiplier isn't a damage amount. Wendy can wield a hambat, void scythe, etc., when not on a beefalo.

should i remind u again that the dress occupy armor slot so u cant get full suit buff, which means u loss some planar def and atk buff with only helmat which dmg is 58~78, and since u only have helmat, its double time to loss duration than with armor. compare to beefalo with nightmare saddle, is 68. and before shadow rift, hambat is 44 nightsword is 51, compare to beefalo with war saddle is 66. besides u get spd bonus from beefalo which can help u dodge, and only cost some grass or twigs. so, whos dishonest now? 

is should work now.

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

And yet Wilson gives something up regardless. Yes, Wortox and Walter give things up, too. Wendy doesn't have enough skills to make a choice, yet you're opposed to adding more for some reason.

im not against for more choises, im against leaving sisturn, potions and abi but keep pushing petal skills, u said they gives something up, but wendy has even no choise to give up cause more than half of them r useless. 

[Sapientis]

20 hours ago, Gashzer said:

What make both these characters popular and "powerful" is convenience.

This is the message I want people to get from this thread.

If popularity was measured by actual power Wolf, Max and Wanda would be top 3, yet they are quite marginal on public servers.

[purelove]

1 minute ago, Sapientis said:

This is the message I want people to get from this thread.

If popularity was measured by actual power Wolf, Max and Wanda would be top 3, yet they are quite marginal on public servers.

That's a strange situation. In our public server, many Maxwell, Wanda, and Wolf players who directly locate underground ruins often sweep the ground and display all their weapons and equipment on the ground in autumn, even before it's over, in order to showcase their victory products. Our public service area has many intensity worshippers who use powerful characters to constantly challenge and clear all challenges faster, and even cheat by opening the creative workshop mod to quickly find the optimal solution. Library grandma, Vila, Woody, and others naturally joined this large-scale race after the skill tree update.

[Bumber64]

50 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

but its same, u can also trigger abis atk buff to about x1.54 and use moon line abi when u ride on beefalo. so thats not the reason. also moon line abi is ez to loss atk buff since her atk spd is badly slowed down.

 

should i remind u again that the dress occupy armor slot so u cant get full suit buff, which means u loss some planar def and atk buff with only helmat which dmg is 58~78, and since u only have helmat, its double time to loss duration than with armor. compare to beefalo with nightmare saddle, is 68. and before shadow rift, hambat is 44 nightsword is 51, compare to beefalo with war saddle is 66. besides u get spd bonus from beefalo which can help u dodge, and only cost some grass or twigs. so, whos dishonest now? 

is should work now.

im not against for more choises, im against leaving sisturn, potions and abi but keep pushing petal skills, u said they gives something up, but wendy has even no choise to give up. 

I'm not considering the x1.54 buff legitimate. It's a bug based on 0.75*1.54 = 1.15 and ought to be fixed.

You also can't claim petal shroud is a worse option than beefalo if you're relying on it to keep Abi alive for the beefalo multiplier. It's a pure benefit then, and the argument's over. (Edit: To be clear, the mechanic of this item is confirmed to be changed. It will share helmet defense with Abi, not healing or damage.)

You can use brightshade sword versus shadow mobs, while there's no lunar saddle equivalent. (Keeping in mind planar damage doesn't benefit from the usual damage multiplier. You get a flat x1.1 on that for using the correct type. x1.15 is only for the physical part.)

[AliceMagtron]

52 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You also can't claim petal shroud is a worse option than beefalo if you're relying on it to keep Abi alive for the beefalo multiplier. It's a pure benefit then, and the argument's over. (Edit: To be clear, the mechanic of this item is confirmed to be changed. It will share helmet defense with Abi, not healing or damage.)

Kek, i gave magnification, u said i didnt use velue, i gave value now u say that? what u do is only avoid the problem and u give no reason to support your opinion. from your logic, wes and wolfgong both can kill boss so u cant say wes is weaker than wolfgong? and end with over? who said its over, this is completely dishonest.

52 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

I'm not considering the x1.54 buff legitimate. It's a bug based on 0.75*1.54 = 1.15 and ought to be fixed.

thats your opinion,  at least klei never said its a bug or fix it, maybe they will, like they said lureplant blocking is bug, we will see, but not now.

52 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Edit: To be clear, the mechanic of this item is confirmed to be changed. It will share helmet defense with Abi, not healing or damage

yes i know, which means your helmat will take double dmg by an AoE boss and u have no armor to share these dmg, but cant compare to beefalo for a single target boss.

52 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

You can use brightshade sword versus shadow mobs, while there's no lunar saddle equivalent. (Keeping in mind planar damage doesn't benefit from the usual damage multiplier. You get a flat x1.1 on that for using the correct type. x1.15 is only for the physical part.)

as i remember brightshard suit is 1 or 2 version later than void suit, which means there is high rate that klei will release a lunar saddle, if wendy skill try come at that version, u wont be able to say it.

52 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

Keeping in mind planar damage doesn't benefit from the usual damage multiplier. You get a flat x1.1 on that for using the correct type. x1.15 is only for the physical part

yes, thats why i give the value without abis buff, and if u want, beefalo battle type has 50 physic dmg but shadow reaper has only 38 and they both have 18 planar dmg, which means beefalo can get more atk buff.

now thats over

[Bumber64]

50 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

Kek, i gave magnification, u said i didnt use velue, i gave value now u say that? what u do is only avoid the problem and u give no reason to support your opinion, and end with over? who said its over.

What? You put x1.0 and x0.75 in your chart. Those are both values without Abi. You clearly can't use petal shroud without Abi, so that's meaningless.

So you can use x1.54 and x1.15 values with Abi, but it doesn't make an argument against petal shroud. There's no reason not to use the beefalo, and no reason not to use the shroud.

50 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

yes i know, which means your helmat will take double dmg by an AoE boss and u have no armor to share these dmg, but cant compare to beefalo for a single target boss.

Armor doesn't protect beefalo. The helmet will only take damage for Abi. There's nothing better for the body slot, because armor is useless and you'll lose your buff if Abi dies. So you use the shroud.

If we were talking about the old shroud effect, you could claim you can't heal Abi while mounted. That won't be an issue now, since you just can't regardless.

50 minutes ago, AliceMagtron said:

as i remember brightshard suit is 1 or 2 version later than void suit, which means there is high rate that klei will release a lunar saddle, if wendy skill try come at that version, u wont be able to say it.

Lunar: Polar bin, crystaleyezer, howlitzer.

Shadow: Gloom bell, nightmare saddle, gloomerang.

These are the 3 rare items for each side. Seems unlikely that lunar will getting any beefalo items.

But all that is irrelevant because we're not talking about if weapons are better than beefalo. You claimed that shroud was a worse option than beefalo, except you aren't even forced to choose. Shroud with beefalo.

[AliceMagtron]

1 hour ago, Bumber64 said:

But all that is irrelevant because we're not talking about if weapons are better than beefalo. You claimed that shroud was a worse option than beefalo, except you aren't even forced to choose. Shroud with beefalo.

I Apologize, i just watched that hot fix again, maybe i missunderstood the meaning before. i just do dont like that they keep pushing this as a petal craft stuff instead of maybe a potion effect or a new craft object that can be filled in sisturn to get a similar buff, which should be on the extension cord of wendys original skill and call it shroud. + that dig graves skill That makes wendys story very weird and disrespectful. i do think they underrestimated them especially sisturn. also keep abi on sisturn to get extra hp regen make revenant restorative more worthless, we dont know if he will change strong brew skill from increasing wasted potion duration to some other skill. and in the main time, 3 new skills for abi looks useless too. also lunar abi is ez to loss atk buff since her atk spd is badly slowed down and rate to miss when boss is moving etc. . there r still planty of problems there. consider the first version of wendys skill tree, wilsons beard and torch line, wigs beefalo line etc. , i really dont trust Jeson

[Steorra]

On 11/24/2024 at 5:55 PM, Bumber64 said:

Considering Wigfrid's update was shared with only one other character, and Walter's alignment perks are still unimplemented, I'm thinking they just ran out of pre-beta time. There's only a month left in the year.

He just needs souls every time to do that, which only stacked to 20. Souls which are also his hunger/healing/sanity (when anyone else would just make food from the morsel). Having just a teleport didn't negate the downsides. You could just play the other two teleporting characters for high damage (plus Wanda free heals or Winona resource gathering) on top of it.

Meanwhile Walter gets a tent, campfire stories, free bonus Chester, early beefalo, slingshot for birds/etc., and potentially less sanity lost from some bosses. There's a thread where I argued he's worse than Webber (and questionably Wendy and Wormwood), but I don't think I could make a case for Wortox other than teleport being obviously better than rider Woby.

Wortox is still far better than Walter because of Walter's sanity loss when get hitting.