Cave Update Ideas/Suggestions.

[arubaro]

2 hours ago, Gashzer said:

We do need bosses to become more fun. And also no point giving characters powerful affinities if the average person cant kill AFW.

Average person can't beat souls games for lack of will, should they disappear? There are more fish in the ocean

[Cyrefy]

23 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Average person can't beat souls games for lack of will, should they disappear? There are more fish in the ocean

Not if you sold 5 million copies. 

[DegenerateFurry]

7 hours ago, arubaro said:

Average person can't beat souls games for lack of will, should they disappear? There are more fish in the ocean

Believe it or not, Don't Starve is not and never was Dark Souls, and neither is or was DST. 

[goblinball]

7 hours ago, arubaro said:

Average person can't beat souls games for lack of will, should they disappear? There are more fish in the ocean

The average person doesn’t engage with soulslikes at all. The average dst player on the other hand will engage with skill trees and want to engage with affinities (assuming their character has one yet). If they never beat fw and can’t engage with affinities that’s a problem. You need to design things with your core audience (the average dst player) in mind.

im neither for nor against reworking fw I’m just pointing out how this is a false equivalency 

[Wormboi]

1 minute ago, goblinball said:

The average dst player on the other hand will engage with skill trees and affinities (assuming their character has one yet). If they never beat fw that’s a problen.

I agree. Most people just cheat to get the last perks becuase they dont want to beat FW or CC just to use them.

[grm9]

12 hours ago, Cyrefy said:

Oh mate, I think you don't understand yet, their "fun" is that they feel special when killing a boss that others have difficulty with

that's simply misinformation, i've never said that, it's fun for me because the fight's fun, not because some weird people on the forums think that i'm some sort of elitist try hard that wants people to suffer

12 hours ago, Cyrefy said:

The good thing about old bosses is that they practically don't move and don't break structures with the same level of destruction as crystallized bosses, for example, which makes it extremely easy to make cheeses, not just with winona

???

the good things about them're having many strats and some of them having fights that're much more fun to execute in comparison to new bosses, if that's supposed to be sarcasm, do you really want to have braindead bosses like mutated bosses only because you can't cheese them for some reason?

4 hours ago, goblinball said:

The average person doesn’t engage with soulslikes at all. The average dst player on the other hand will engage with skill trees and want to engage with affinities (assuming their character has one yet). If they never beat fw and can’t engage with affinities that’s a problem. You need to design things with your core audience (the average dst player) in mind

they can use cheese or bring a lot of stuff e.g. gunpowder or brightshade staff if they're having issues to make the fight really easy so that's not an issue

5 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Believe it or not, Don't Starve is not and never was Dark Souls, and neither is or was DST

games can have optional hard things without being dark souls (shocking)

you can already cheese all hard things, so what's the issue at this point? flute and walls for dfly, bunnymen or collision and fire for BQ, void and brightshade staff for FW, weather pains for toad, maxwell and skill tree perks for new bosses although they aren't hard either etc.

[marshyds]

honestly i'd rather the caves would be changed so that it isint 2 servers anymore, have it be out of bounds in some manner in the surface.

sinkholes turn into reskinned wormholes, basically.

 

On 6/29/2024 at 10:41 PM, DegenerateFurry said:

Finding the Atrium is either an exercise in abusing the voidwalking glitch or an obnoxious game of trial and error with tentapillars. I don't think this should be the case. There's an easy solution, though! Just either add a visual difference to the Atrium tentapillar on both sides or give us an item that works like an astral detector to find the correct tentapillar. The latter solution is the better one, I believe. Maybe it could even be the ancient key? You put it on the ground for a few seconds and it conjures some kind of shadowy pointer-arrow with a tip edged in the red of pure horror, maybe with a couple random nightmare creatures spawning to balance out the fact that it never breaks.

Fuelweaver Rework

i have an idea for these things:

In the surface, the fuelweaver could hint you need to go to the caves by walking to a nearby sinkhole.

In the caves, the fuelweaver could slowly walk toward the correct tentapillar.

[arubaro]

6 hours ago, goblinball said:

The average person doesn’t engage with soulslikes at all. The average dst player on the other hand will engage with skill trees and want to engage with affinities (assuming their character has one yet). If they never beat fw and can’t engage with affinities that’s a problem. You need to design things with your core audience (the average dst player) in mind.

im neither for nor against reworking fw I’m just pointing out how this is a false equivalency 

But why the average person dont engage with FW and CC? Is really because the difficulty, for how obscure is to find them or because some people os attracted by the graphics and because they think is another cozy building game?

I think that skill trees already downgrade the difficulty for the average player that will to engage with content but it needs to be less obscure while a good ammount of people wont do the effort of fighting them even if they were as easy as deerclops

[GreenBowers]

18 hours ago, grm9 said:

they don't

They do. 

 

See I did what you do in every thread, super constructive.

[grm9]

4 minutes ago, GreenBowers said:

They do. 

 

See I did what you do in every thread, super constructive

that's just misinformation, i only say that if someone says something without an explanation or a reason or we've already talked about that a lot so there isn't a point in explaining

[W0l0l0]

I personally like the Fuelweaver fight. I wouldn't mind ways to avoid the bone cage (like a few years ago), but otherwise I enjoy it.

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, W0l0l0 said:

I wouldn't mind ways to avoid the bone cage

you already can through running out of it's range

as an example: https://youtu.be/fFYBvuZzQig

[Larael]

About AFW rework... think it this way crabking was reworked due to comunity pressure and developers decision
- Almost every person skipped the fight with crab king due to his desing and "dificult" (bees chesse and that stuff)
- It was meant to be a fight were you choose how and what to fight. Player choose to only face it with 8 purple gem (only one way of fighting a boss desingned to have multiple ways of fight)
- If the developers spend time coding the mechanics of the multiway boss and the players only go with 8 purple gems something is not working
I don't think that logic applies to AFW so a rework is not really necessary 

[Jimothywastaken]

i really dont see a reason to change fuelweaver at all
he's a fairly simple bossfight on paper who's mechanics have a large variety of possible methods you can use to counter them like character specific techniques like bramble husk or abigail or things like bone cage dodge and positioning fw to make aoe options like weather pain more effective 

the more modern design for bosses do have a place in the game as more mechanics dependent bossfights but the more strategy dependent fights like fuelweaver should stay that way as they are much more interesting and still have strategies developed for them to this day while daywalker for example doesnt 

tldr dont change fuelweaver 

[Cruvimaster]

On 6/29/2024 at 4:41 PM, DegenerateFurry said:

Fuelweaver Rework

I disagree. One of the smartest designs in the game. Small adjustments could be made, but nothing more.

The redesign of the Ancient Guardian was in March 2022 and the CK was now. Maybe they can make the dragonfly because of the use of walls in June 2026.

[Sir Noel]

Kinda knew this thread would devolve into talking about FW once I saw that in the post lol

6 hours ago, grm9 said:

you already can through running out of it's range

as an example: https://youtu.be/fFYBvuZzQig

I would maybe attempt this strategy for my regular fights more if this was at least somewhat telegraphed better. Plus there is no way anyone could know about this unless you were told.

[grm9]

8 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

I would maybe attempt this strategy for my regular fights more if this was at least somewhat telegraphed better

it's on a 10 seconds cd, you're supposed to predict it, not react to it

8 minutes ago, Sir Noel said:

Plus there is no way anyone could know about this unless you were told

ask them to add a clue about that

[Wormboi]

This thread got hijacked by fuelweaver lol

[Sir Noel]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

it's on a 10 seconds cd, you're supposed to predict it, not react to it

That seems kinda hard to juggle with everything else but I guess I'll try it later

Just now, Wormboi said:

This thread got hijacked by fuelweaver lol

People are very passionate about this fight from what I've seen, and I can see why, it's fun once you know all the intricacies. Definitely a step up from something like AG lol

[arubaro]

5 hours ago, Larael said:

If the developers spend time coding the mechanics of the multiway boss and the players only go with 8 purple gems something is not working

And now is only orange gems :/

[DegenerateFurry]

9 hours ago, Wormboi said:

This thread got hijacked by fuelweaver lol

Nah, it mostly got hijacked by Fuelweaver's most stalwart defender. Everyone else was talking about other cave stuff until he showed up and incessantly told everyone "git gud" whenever they criticized the fight. 

[goblinball]

 

22 hours ago, grm9 said:

they can use cheese or bring a lot of stuff e.g. gunpowder or brightshade staff if they're having issues to make the fight really easy so that's not an issue

No, players resorting to skipping the fight through cheese doesn’t solve the issue. Ideally the fight should be fun for everyone, or at the very least as many people as possible. If players resort to cheese then that usually means the fight isn’t fun for them and they don’t want to do it. Being able to circumvent the issue with cheese/cheats doesn’t mean there’s no issue. 

 

20 hours ago, arubaro said:

But why the average person dont engage with FW and CC? Is really because the difficulty, for how obscure is to find them or because some people os attracted by the graphics and because they think is another cozy building game?

I think that skill trees already downgrade the difficulty for the average player that will to engage with content but it needs to be less obscure while a good ammount of people wont do the effort of fighting them even if they were as easy as deerclops

I don’t think anyone or at least 99% of players go into dst expecting “a cozy building game” the game makes itself very clear that it’s not an easy farming sim.

I think there’s alot of reasons why ppl don’t fight fuelweaver but a big part is definitely that it’s just a pain to find. A wiki is basically required with how many obtuse steps there are, and with how unfriendly the caves can be to newer players there’s not really much of a reason for them to go down there and explore. They don’t know the ruins exist and there are rewards aplenty for them if they dig deep enough, and why would they? It’s high risk, unknown reward (and if you don’t find the ruins it’s basically no reward)
I knew a person who still has more hours in dst than I do, and they had no idea that fuelweaver even existed, let alone how to summon it. I was using a wiki, and they never did. 

[DegenerateFurry]

28 minutes ago, goblinball said:

I think there’s alot of reasons why ppl don’t fight fuelweaver but a big part is definitely that it’s just a pain to find. A wiki is basically required with how many obtuse steps there are, and with how unfriendly the caves can be to newer players there’s not really much of a reason for them to go down there and explore. They don’t know the ruins exist and there are rewards aplenty for them if they dig deep enough, and why would they? It’s high risk, unknown reward (and if you don’t find the ruins it’s basically no reward)
I knew a person who still has more hours in dst than I do, and they had no idea that fuelweaver even existed, let alone how to summon it. I was using a wiki, and they never did. 

I definitely agree that the game could do a better job of guiding you to your next step with bosses like Fuelweaver. Do you think my suggestion that the ancient key works like an astral detector for the atrium tentapillar would help with this enough or would there need to be more? Maybe characters could comment on the shadow atrium beating faster if you take it near a sinkhole entrance to hint that it needs to go somewhere in the caves, encouraging exploration? 

[Wormboi]

They aleast needs to be more clear of what the step you need to do to get to fuelweaver. Like having to gather three chess peaces and mine at a new moon in extremely vague (Hell, I still get confuse whether or not if its a full or new moon with having 1000 hours in DST)

[grm9]

51 minutes ago, goblinball said:

No, players resorting to skipping the fight through cheese doesn’t solve the issue. Ideally the fight should be fun for everyone, or at the very least as many people as possible. If players resort to cheese then that usually means the fight isn’t fun for them and they don’t want to do it. Being able to circumvent the issue with cheese/cheats doesn’t mean there’s no issue

he's already the most fun fight in the game so that's about as good as that'll get, people that currently like him most likely won't like him after they'll rework him since they'll most likely turn it into another braindead fight like mutated bosses