New Crab King fight is much worse than old Crab King fight

[grm9]

New Crab King is extremely simple and there's hardly a reason to interact with some stuff that it does, cannons' damage is pitiful, you can ignore them and just place another boat since you'll get boards that you spent on boats that broke back, there's no reason to interact with claws, they don't reach you if you just put the boat as close to CK at the start of the fight as possible and you can just wait away from them after he heals for the 1st time since you don't need to do anything for him to heal again, killing minions seems not worth it in comparison to tanking or sleeping them because CK heals and you can't deal damage to him when doing that unless AoE but that doesn't seem worth it except maybe catapults, you just hold F during heal and get away and wait after he stops since heal cd seems to be really short after he gets low enough.

Old CK was much more fun and complex, you needed to either keep minions unfrozen and aggroed onto him or sync your hits to cancel his heal, claws were able to attack your boat instead of just helplessly waiting for you to get closer, CK had freeze, you needed to move around because of CK casting geysers instead of staring or trying to heal during the entire fight, there were no pointless minions that there pretty much wasn't a solution for except tanking, sleeping and high AoE damage (compare that to BQ's minions, luring them around and stunlocking them by using any AoE that happens often enough worked, so there were much more solutions), maybe fire works but i haven't tested, igniting all 10 crabs doesn't seem fast either. Claws had too much hp for characters without perks for fighting but practically all characters're getting them now and that's a number change, but that's it.

Most people that complained about old CK just kept repeating what others said because of not trying to find a fun solution on their own nor on the internet and using the 1st strat that they found and complaining about it, most people never even tried fighting him by using rowing to avoid stuff instead of freezing.

Please at least try to do old CK with a few boats, an oar, a weapon and either a few bee mines and a torch or syncing hits to cancel heal and probably a damage multiplier since klei didn't decrease claws' hp before replying.

[ChintzyGnat]

Knew this was coming

[JustAFlower]

To the title, no.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, JustAFlower said:

To the title, no

maybe read the post, or at least the end

[flamboyant wolf]

Disagree, it's much more fun now, and it seems like there're actually more viable gem "builds" that aren't just purples.

[Antynomity]

I think the new one just needs a bit of work, I don't see them reverting it so I'd suggest how to make it better, before klei pumps the update out into live branch and forgets about it for the next 6 years.

[Copyafriend]

grm, they're gonna change crab king, think of suggestions, even if one tenth of people actually reads this and goes to try it (which is insanely unlikely that even one does), that's not going to change klei's mind, they already made it, its getting added, you can make suggestions to make it more enjoyable to you, but no matter what its getting puahed to the main branch.

 

i dont say this to be mean, i say this because you need to lock in and start suggesting, because if you miss your opportunity, one of your favorite bosses is still disappearing, and you also didnt have any hand in designing his replacement

[JosePapp]

For the record i did try to fight him through rowing and it was not very fun after the 4th time getting sunk down and losing a weather pain.

But I respect your opinion 

[Cruvimaster]

No difficulties here. It doesn't even compare to the previous one. Basically, press F and be happy.

For those who will complain about Wanda. There are already videos on YouTube of Wilson and Willow with this fight.

[grm9]

16 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

they're gonna change crab king, think of suggestions, even if one tenth of people actually reads this and goes to try it (which is insanely unlikely that even one does), that's not going to change klei's mind, they already made it, its getting added, you can make suggestions to make it more enjoyable to you, but no matter what its getting puahed to the main branch

ik but at least maybe they won't remove more fun bosses

16 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

i dont say this to be mean, i say this because you need to lock in and start suggesting, because if you miss your opportunity, one of your favorite bosses is still disappearing, and you also didnt have any hand in designing his replacement

i don't really care at this point because they've explicitly said that the fight is supposed to be more about killing the player in comparison to the boat so they probably aren't going to bring geysers and claws grabbing back so the only way to make the fight better is probably adding a lot of new stuff and they probably aren't going to do that

[Reiko24]

36 minutes ago, grm9 said:

ik but at least maybe they won't remove more fun bosses

FUN? old crab king was fun for you? it was insanely boring and tedious.

 

the new design of the crab king is PERFECT, but it needs tweaking so the player needs to interact more with its minions, etc.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Reiko24 said:

FUN? old crab king was fun for you? it was insanely boring and tedious

did you read the 1st post at all?

1 minute ago, Reiko24 said:

the new design of the crab king is PERFECT

it's practically braindead if you use either out of the 2 optimal strats that all characters can use and trying to fight minions is still simple, boring and not worth doing

[marshyds]

2 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

the new design of the crab king is PERFECT, but it needs tweaking so the player needs to interact more with its minions, etc.

also ive heard that its pretty easy, so it could be made harder via slight stat boosts perhaps

[Reiko24]

Just now, grm9 said:

it's practically braindead if you use either out of the 2 optimal strats that all characters can use and trying to fight minions is still simple, boring and not worth doing

yea, you know what would make it not simple? TWEAKING. like i said.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

yea, you know what would make it not simple? TWEAKING. like i said

so reworking a rework

also, you didn't answer, did you read the 1st post at all? at least the end?

[Reiko24]

Just now, grm9 said:

so reworking a rework

tweaking numbers is not reworking XD

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

so reworking a rework

also, you didn't answer, did you read the 1st post at all? at least the end?

yes I did, and i disagree.

[grm9]

Just now, Reiko24 said:

tweaking numbers is not reworking XD

only changing numbers won't help, fighting minions is always going to be worse than ignoring them because CK heals when you're fighting them, claws'll still be best to ignore because of CK healing every X seconds so you could just not do anything before heal, avoiding minions' attacks is simple and even if they increase their range to the point of needing to start walking before the anim starts, you could just count hits

[Reiko24]

Just now, grm9 said:

only changing numbers won't help, fighting minions is always going to be worse than ignoring them because CK heals when you're fighting them, claws'll still be best to ignore because of CK healing every X seconds so you could just not do anything before heal, avoiding minions' attacks is simple and even if they increase their range to the point of needing to start walking before the anim starts, you could just count hits

It will help. Just look at what you wrote.

Tweak the healing, or tweak the damage of minions to make them not easy to ignore.

[grm9]

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

yes I did, and i disagree

mention reasons about why then, if it's using ice staves not being fun or whatever then you just didn't read it at all

Just now, Reiko24 said:

It will help. Just look at what you wrote.

Tweak the healing, or tweak the damage of minions to make them not easy to ignore

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

avoiding minions' attacks is simple and even if they increase their range to the point of needing to start walking before the anim starts, you could just count hits

 

[Sir Noel]

Honestly I kind of expected you to have to destroy the towers to advance to the next phase (or have him have like a DR if you don't get rid of them), and that's what I did on my first go, ramming them was really fun lol. It's kind of sad that you can just completely ignore them.

[Reiko24]

5 minutes ago, grm9 said:

mention reasons about why then, if it's using ice staves not being fun or whatever then you just didn't read it at all

 

"Most people that complained about old CK just kept repeating what others said because of not trying to find a fun solution on their own nor on the internet and using the 1st strat that they found and complaining about it, most people never even tried fighting him by using rowing to avoid stuff instead of freezing."
 

there was just no fun strat for this boss. It was boring. It existed for many many years, there have been many strategies created for Fuelweaver, Bee Queen, etc. but all strategies created for crab king are boring. And no, you cannot invent it yourself rn, all of them have been exhausted. The rest is too risky or expensive.

The rest of the post was dismissed by me, I won't write anything about it. It was just copium or personal preference.

  2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

avoiding minions' attacks is simple and even if they increase their range to the point of needing to start walking before the anim starts, you could just count hits

 

So instead of talking about how the old boss was better, let's think of an idea to make this one better? If the problems you have with him disappear, I'm sure you will like him more than the old one.

[grm9]

2 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

there was just no fun strat for this boss

so did you ever try rowing after waterlogged to kill it?

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

It was just copium or personal preference

???

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

So instead of talking about how the old boss was better, let's think of an idea to make this one better? If the problems you have with him disappear, I'm sure you will like him more than the old one

idk how to make it better considering that they aren't going to bring old stuff back or add much more new stuff

[Reiko24]

6 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so did you ever try rowing after waterlogged to kill it?

???

idk how to make it better considering that they aren't going to bring old stuff back or add much more new stuff

If you row, you will just make more claws attack you. If you row in such a way that makes claws not reach you and decimate your boat while crab king spams his spells, you would be getting away from crab king, which you do not want since you want to kill him. 

There was a strat that involved rowing, everyone knows it, everyone saw it. The boats in DST feel too clunky and hard to operate for it to be widely accepted and making people feel good instead of bored/tedious.

Edit: mainly bee cheese involved rowing lol

 

Write problems you have with crab king, what makes him too easy, what makes him boring in a normal, well formulated list. People will surely agree with you, I do at least. He needs changes. He has potential to be one of the best designed boss fights in Don't Starve Together, but he needs more work to be put into him. That is why he is on the beta branch rn, not on the public branch. They want us to criticize and tell them how to tweak him.

[arubaro]

22 minutes ago, grm9 said:

so reworking a rework

also, you didn't answer, did you read the 1st post at all? at least the end?

Do you know what beta test build means?

 

Btw. I read the post, specially the non sense from the end. I did tried many ways of dealing with CK except the ones involving mobs since CK had that design flaw of being uneable to deal to anything that wasnt a boat

Being possible to be beaten doesnt mean it was fun. Glad you had fun fighting him like how other people have fun hurting themselves or any other weird kink but the truth is that he wasnt fun

The only scenario i have fun fighting him was by rowing with ADM and is sad that they kinda removed sailing from the equation.  The current fight needs a lot of improvements and more variety of atack (why they remove the geyser atack is a mistery beyond my comprehension) but is a good base to work with

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Reiko24 said:

If you row, you will just make more claws attack you. If you row in such a way that makes claws not reach you and decimate your boat while crab king spams his spells, you would be getting away from crab king, which you do not want since you want to kill him. 

There was a strat that involved rowing, everyone knows it, everyone saw it. The boats in DST feel too clunky and hard to operate for it to be widely accepted and making people feel good instead of bored/tedious.

Edit: mainly bee cheese involved rowing lol

 

Write problems you have with crab king, what makes him too easy, what makes him boring in a normal, well formulated list. People will surely agree with you, I do at least. He needs changes. He has potential to be one of the best designed boss fights in Don't Starve Together, but he needs more work to be put into him. That is why he is on the beta branch rn, not on the public branch. They want us to criticize and tell them how to tweak him.

why are you avoiding the question all the time

2 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

If you row, you will just make more claws attack you. If you row in such a way that makes claws not reach you and decimate your boat while crab king spams his spells, you would be getting away from crab king, which you do not want since you want to kill him

if you didn't realise, claws can be killed, you should also read the post because it includes info about what was good about old CK

2 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

He has potential to be one of the best designed boss fights in Don't Starve Together

he really doesn't, they aren't making good bosses anymore since CK, only braindead stuff that everyone can do on 1st or 2nd try, i just don't want them to remove good bosses

3 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

There was a strat that involved rowing, everyone knows it, everyone saw it

no, most people don't know about it or never tried it

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Do you know what beta test build means?

i've already explained why they're unlikely to make him good