Wikerbottom skill tree I'm hoping for.

[Gi-Go]

This is a somewhat put together perks list I wish for Wiker's skill tree. I only made book themed buffs as I have years of experience with them and know what I want. I will leave anything else for the dev's imagination. The branch names and structures are irrelevant and were used for organizing. The stats are obviously opinionated but I'm very comfortable with suggested balance. The only thing I'm not sure on is the number of slots in a bag. Also, I have a good excuse why Maxwell won't be able to use it - Wikerbottom has a special medallion key: 

Wiker mains, opinions plz. 

[Anis5240]

The book bag should be a body slot at the very least, maybe have like 10 spaces? Can be used to keep the Fire Pens and Feather Pencils too. And papyrus.

[Gi-Go]

21 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

All books already drain 33 sanity.

Argument disproven.

Besides its not like klei's gonna add any of these, go home. 》:[

Nuh uh. Tentacles, birds and moon books drain 50. 

32 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

The book bag should be a body slot at the very least, maybe have like 10 spaces? Can be used to keep the Fire Pens and Feather Pencils too. And papyrus.

In other words.... 2 extra slots compared to regular backpack, but for book stuff only? No thanks.

[Anis5240]

5 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

In other words.... 2 extra slots compared to regular backpack, but for book stuff only? No thanks.

Why not?

There's the Seed Pack-It, only for seeds, 14 slots.

The candy bag during Hallowed Nights, for storing candies and similar items. Still 14 slots.

All of Wickerbottom's books are 18 in total, 19 if you include the Fire Pen, and of course 20 if we include the Feather Pencil. So having a 10 slot portable storage is good enough for me, especially when you put in your skill tree concept yourself that they won't have their uses regen in the bag.

[Gi-Go]

2 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Oh so you have a skill that only affects 3 books then lol.

Yes. 

4 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

Why not?

Multiple books don't justify a slot to carry them around. Web book, sleep book, temperature book just to name a few. The bag should be compared with an equal item which is the wigfrid songs bin, not with infamously worthless backpacks. 

[Anis5240]

7 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Multiple books don't justify a slot to carry them around

But you can choose what to bring???? I already said papyrus can be cool to be put in the bag too????

[Gi-Go]

5 minutes ago, Anis5240 said:

But you can choose what to bring???? I already said papyrus can be cool to be put in the bag too????

You are offering nothing. 

[Anis5240]

Oh, fine. Forget I even bother coming here to give some suggestions.

[Gi-Go]

1 minute ago, Anis5240 said:

Oh, fine. Forget I even bother coming here to give some suggestions.

Give some actual suggestions, not a backpack with less slots than krampus sack or even a piggy back. 

[Anis5240]

14 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

Give some actual suggestions, not a backpack with less slots than krampus sack or even a piggy back.

So you make this suggestion of a book bag but doesn't want it to be inferior?

Then why even bother coming up with it in the first place???

The Vortex Cloak in Hamlet also has 10 slots, yet no one really bothers with the limited space because it also can act as an armor. But to repair it stinks since every nightmare fuel only repairs for 5%.

So if you want to make a "portable" book storage, maybe perhaps consider taking some inspiration from the Vortex Cloak? Of course, this is mere suggestion. But hey, I already give my two cents here, so ciao.

[flamboyant wolf]

I think the skills that make reading faster should be called "Skimming".

Now on actual input, I had an idea for a skill that would make the summoned tentacles not attack players(yeah yeah, removes the risk of using the book, but it'd be nice to be able to use it more casually. just my thoughts though), and makes the bees not have beef with random pigs anymore(bundled together cause the theme of the books is similar). 

Another idea I've had is a buff to tempering temperatures, either directly through a skill, or by having the skill give the ability to craft an advanced version of the book. Basically, it'd do what it does now, but would also either create a temporary barrier, similar to that of the umbralla, or give the players affected a lingering buff for a minute or two, that keeps them protected from the rain and harsh temperatures. I just think tempering temperatures is underutilised. Similarly to my last skill suggestion, this one could be bundled with some sort of everything encyclopedia buff, as both are books that affect survivors near the caster.(speaking of, would love to have another book or two like that, but I digress)

[Arcwell]

Hiya, Wickerbottom main main here. Would like to share my opinions on each of the skills you listed:

Book bag: Good! Consider expanding this beyond one point, maybe making it slowly repair books or give a sanity aura as some examples.
All books have 5-10 uses: I would just double what we have currently (so 5-casts become 10 and 3-casts become 6), feels weird having the 3-cast books have the same number of casts as the 5-cast books.
Read books 1.5-3x faster: Seems okay. Might be better as 1.33-2x, hard to say though.
All books drain 33-8.25 sanity: Not sure I like this. Sanity control is (imo) Wickerbottom's main downside and this kinda steps all over that. I'd be more okay with something like 20-ish sanity per cast, 8.25 seems too low. 
Spawn 5 tentacles but no spikes: I don't think the tentacle spike requirement is necessary but this seems fine. 
Tentacle spawning range: I have mixed feelings with this. I don't care for the extra range, although the marsh turf requirement is interesting because it would allow for more precise tentacle placement. I personally hate working with turf though, I'd prefer it to be something targetable like what we're seeing with Winona's remote.
Horticulture expanded giant crops: Seems okay.
Applied Silviculture in winter: Seems okay.
4-16 gumbles for 4-1 minutes: Not a fan. Micromanaging spell durations is not fun especially when there's a sanity cost associated with them. Also: the more grumbles you spawn, the less will get hits in because they're blocked by other grumbles. Adding less duration on top of that seems overly punishing.
1.5-2.5x range/duration/durability for fire/web/light books: Pretty bland for a 3-point investment but it's not bad per-say.
Moon affinity: Good! I would only add that books should summon gestalts in this state when you get to full sanity, similar to how low-sanity casts summon nightmare creatures currently.
Shadow affinity: Uninspired. I do not want to play Maxwell when I'm playing Wickerbottom. I'd personally like to see something that interacts with the shadow creatures Wicker summons at low sanity. For one (dubious) example: you could make every cast make all nearby shadow creatures enter a "Mad" state, where they attack whatever's closest to them (including you, but not sane allies).

Pretty good all things considered! I've tried brainstorming one of these skill trees for Wicker in the past and really got no progress, I'm really curious what Klei will eventually do with Wicker.

[Mortalbane]

Reducing sanity cost per cast is bad, especially to so low as 8. The whole point of Wicker is that you finally need sanity management, instead of just ignoring it like other characters do. This is why Maxwell should be banned from reading her books (among other reasons). With such ideas you can just allow Wicker to sleep.

Some changes to books should be a rework, like with Winona, not a skill.
For example, having permanent bees is too strong, they need to be on timer.
Making players to build some weird 9x9 hay wall grids to make cheesy tentacle traps is so Klei. They just love such "creative solutions", witch take a year to grind and set up for. Like Winona again. Like you said, i'd make tentacles only spawning on marsh turf, which would make setting up those cheesy traps a lot easier. That would of course need to be balanced, like having no drops or having a timer on tentacle lifetime, or smth.
So, there could be skills to increase the timer of all summons.

Giant crops with Wicker no. She is the best farmer already, she needs to be toned down (at least not buffed), not become the ultimate farmer. No wonder you love Maxwell reading books, you seem to enjoy OP things. Though i don't understand why Klei made tier 2 book affect 15 plants. You usually grow 9 per tile, 10 max. Why would you need book to affect 1,5 tiles? Make it 1 tile but cheaper or 2 tiles but more expensive.
Silviculture working in winter no. It is already a very powerful utility, there should be at least some management to it.

Increase books' durability or decrease reading time - ok.
Books with duration/AoE like light, web, could indeed get skills to increase those.

Book storage - idk, they will probably make it, since they do it for others. Personally i don't think it's necessary, cuz inventory management should be a price to pay for all those abilities. Maybe add a way to repair books on the go.

Affinities no. Lunar too op again, nullifies any management. Why even bother with sanity cost reductions if you have this. There could indeed be some enlightenment thing in affinity to help manage sanity, but not such blunt and op.
Reading Codex is what i suggested myself, but i never liked the idea. And that was before i learned Wicker's quote about codex. She says "I'm not putting THAT in my library". Moreover, adding a whole affinity skill to have a tiny fraction of other character's kit, while that character can have your whole kit by default? Just listen to yourself.
Even if Maxwell is banned from reading books, still no. Characters should have synergy working together, not replace each other.
Wicker could indeed have some shadow book in the affinity, doesn't have to be codex. You shouldn't require another character to use your skill. Even if she could read codex as a bonus to her own shadow affinity book, the effect doesn't have to be what Maxwell can do with codex.

[Gi-Go]

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

All books have 5-10 uses: I would just double what we have currently (so 5-casts become 10 and 3-casts become 6), feels weird having the 3-cast books have the same number of casts as the 5-cast books.

That's reasonable, but I couldn't quite figure out how to seperate this into 3 upgrade skills that also won't have hard confusing math. In order for the book to have 6 uses it needs to consume from 17% to 19% per use which is very difficult to keep track of. And I've never quite understood or liked the idea behind some books having less uses, is that like a nerf? Why bird book?

And the upgrades end up being 3>4>5>7 and 5>7>8?>10 consuming 34>25>20>15 and 20>15>12,5?>10 durability % respectively. Everything except for tier 2 big books is alright, altho a little bit hard to keep track of. 

 

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

Read books 1.5-3x faster: Seems okay. Might be better as 1.33-2x, hard to say though.

True, might have went overboard. I'm worried that this branch hardly has utility outside of spammable books like gardening, fishing and tentacles, and the only book that actually benefits a lot instead of just being a qol is the sleep book. 

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

All books drain 33-8.25 sanity: Not sure I like this. Sanity control is (imo) Wickerbottom's main downside and this kinda steps all over that. I'd be more okay with something like 20-ish sanity per cast, 8.25 seems too low. 

I've made a math mistake and am ashamed. 33 sanity is 33% less than 50, but for some reason I had a brain fart and didn't calculate upgrades with the same formula. It should be 50/33>33>22>15. Like with durability, I never understood why some books drain more sanity (WHY BIRD BOOK?) and feel like this just creates confusion. Or... it could be 50/33 > 33/22 >  22/15 > 15/10 and maybe that's better. 

As for the downside, I'm not a fan of sanity management. I've tried using bee queen crown to run on tentacles for exsample but it's sooooooo slow. I tried farming sanity food and that's a lot worse! I've tried dealing with it and killing shadows and o my God I think I killed more shadows as reworked Wiker than I did as all other characters combined since 2016. I've tried wearing shantern/crown but it's like trying to quit an addiction. You gotta do it every day, and allowing yourself to indulge once will undo all the progress over a long time period. Another solution is to limit book consumption, but having 18 of them really does not help with that. No other character punishes you so hard for trying to use perks, and over the years of experience my opinion on said perks really went down. 

And in the end, you can trivialize sanity regardless, once you get the bone helmet which is my main and only way of dealing with her downside. 

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

Spawn 5 tentacles but no spikes: I don't think the tentacle spike requirement is necessary but this seems fine. 

It's for me. I have too many and would like them to stop spawning, but not by default.

[Gi-Go]

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

Tentacle spawning range: I have mixed feelings with this. I don't care for the extra range, although the marsh turf requirement is interesting because it would allow for more precise tentacle placement. I personally hate working with turf though, I'd prefer it to be something targetable like what we're seeing with Winona's remote.

This is also for me. I like to set up reverse tentacle boxes for aesthetic reasons. I only have twins farm screenshot on me, so just pretend its smaller than this, and dosen't have a safe space in the middle. Those take forever to set up even with action queue and geometric drop, but I've done them without mods too and it took more than an hour. 

Spoiler

Yeah, yeah, I'm overusing the tentacles. But if I'm gonna set up a farm I gotta do it right and go for the max possible damage. Obviously I prefer working with turf 100 times more than doing THIS. I'd also like to have miniature death boxes to execute clockworks for exsample, but even I'm not patient enough to set those up. Turf perk gives a lot of room for design creativity (you can even use antlion hat to later replace swamp with whichever turf you like) and the reason I went with this over spell casting, is because wiker is still not ready for that mechanic in my opinion. 

Tentacle and bird books will benefit from aiming. A couple of books will benefit from range spotlight. But a bunch of books aren't ready to be spells and will have no improvement from advanced controls. I don't think some books being simple while others being spells is right, but this is up for a debate. 

 

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

4-16 gumbles for 4-1 minutes: Not a fan. Micromanaging spell durations is not fun especially when there's a sanity cost associated with them. Also: the more grumbles you spawn, the less will get hits in because they're blocked by other grumbles. Adding less duration on top of that seems overly punishing.

Yeah, me neither. Bee book is my least favorite for many many reasons and I never really use it. I lack experience with it and just assumed those stats would work. My main gripe is that they are just obnoxious, you know? I'd like them to do their thing and then go away. 

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

1.5-2.5x range/duration/durability for fire/web/light books: Pretty bland for a 3-point investment but it's not bad per-say.

No way! I thought it was pretty cool how multiple books suffer from low range (all of them have 3 turfs range) and can be fixed together. Web and light 1 also suffer from duration, fire pen suffers from low durability and I forgot to mention web book also suffers from the slow down itself which is just 25%.

I never actually liked that light 2 exists. Wiker rework smells like deadline but even if klei's goal was to come up with 10 books regardless of quality, they ended up making 11. So why make light book twice? 

3 hours ago, Arcwell said:

Moon affinity: Good! I would only add that books should summon gestalts in this state when you get to full sanity, similar to how low-sanity casts summon nightmare creatures currently.

I think you misunderstood, which is why you liked the idea on accident. 

It works as the regular moon based Wiker. Which means books don't spawn gestalts nor increase enlightment. They decrease it instead, in other words get rid of the enlightenment and make you normal, essentially rewarding you for reading books instead of punishing.

Is it overpowered and trivializes her main and only downside, while also making my own sanity branch pointless? Yes, yes it does. But if you ever lived on the moon, this is what life trully is about. 

[Gi-Go]

4 hours ago, Arcwell said:

Shadow affinity: Uninspired. I do not want to play Maxwell when I'm playing Wickerbottom. I'd personally like to see something that interacts with the shadow creatures Wicker summons at low sanity. For one (dubious) example: you could make every cast make all nearby shadow creatures enter a "Mad" state, where they attack whatever's closest to them (including you, but not sane allies).

True. It's uninspired, but it's something I'm experienced with. There was a glitch untill resently that let you summon 1 worker as any character and it was great while it lasted. I miss that. Your suggestion is fun, and it's not weird since they do attack rooks for exsample for breaking stations. But I've never thought about it so I'm not sure where this can be used. Maybe in toadstool if you use him already to farm fuel. Will they work as disobedient minions if you have bone helmet? Whatever the case, I like it more than bees. 

But maybe klei can come up with something even better than our suggestions (I hope it's not more books).  

[Quadratordo]

Alright, here's my opinions on some of the more interesting suggestions.

Sanity cost reduction: I'd go on about the trivializing of sanity management, but it's not like the Bone Helm doesn't exist. That being said, I'm not particularly keen on that turning books functionally free, either. Sure, sanity management is trivial for more experienced players, but you can't design everything around them (us?); downsides become less relevant as a player gets more experienced, but that doesn't mean that we can just cut to the chase and get rid of downsides. So honestly, i'm split about this.

Advanced (Expanded) Horticulture: Given how the book itself already takes care of nutrients and tending, it might make mass farming of giant crops a tad too trivial. Then again, it's not like farming crops was ever not trivial for ol' Wicker in the first place, so it's not like it's that big a deal anyways.

Advanced Silviculture: I don't know about this one; one of my gripes with Winter as of late, is how most ''recently'' added plants just flat out ignore its gimmick of plant dormancy (see Stone Fruits, Banana Bushes and such). Perhaps it could increase the amount of harvests before needing re-fertilization? Instead of halving them, it could bring them back to normal or even double them; particularly relevant for plants like Monkeytails.

Range/Duration for some situational books: Not a bad idea; always felt that Pyrokinetics and Lux Aeterna had too narrow a range.

The Wicker Woman special: Seems like it'd be a bit much when stacked with the general perks; you'd have the ability to very quickly (and at almost no sanity cost; can't say I'm a fan of that general perk) re-summon an army of 16 grumblebees up to 9 times per book. Maybe it could instead give you the power to enrage the grumblebees (both those already there and the newly summoned ones) for a short time, like BQ? A cap lower than 16 would be practical, as well. I'm also with you on the need to be able to dismiss them more practically.

Lunar Alignment: Seems excessive; this would basically get rid of shadow creatures as a whole, with the exception of within the ruins, as well as making reading books not only free, but outright beneficial. 

Shadow Alignment: Conversely, this one seems trivial. Needing to have a Maxwell around (or switch back and forth) just to benefit from a perk doesn't make much sense, not to mention that all you get for it is just a watered down feature of another character. I'd go with an entirely different idea for both alignment perks, but nothing comes to mind to me right now.

There's some good ideas in there; this is a good first rough draft, but some iteration is in order.
 

[Gi-Go]

3 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Reducing sanity cost per cast is bad, especially to so low as 8. The whole point of Wicker is that you finally need sanity management, instead of just ignoring it like other characters do. This is why Maxwell should be banned from reading her books (among other reasons). With such ideas you can just allow Wicker to sleep.

I'm gonna keep ignoring sanity and using bone helmet, untill the drain gets reduced to a point worthy of being managed. So you're wrong. 

It's not a very good analogy but some times less is more. I've had a custom adventure map and I would use full hp bishops blocking paths because it's supposed to be difficult. But players would just ignore them, because it's faster and safer to take a few hits than to actually try and deal with them. When I reduced hp, people had a valid option to actually engage, and ended up fighting and taking more hits. Same with sanity drain. It is absolutely not worth the effort to maintain, and people are more likely to manage their sanity if it's easier. 

You do realize I'm not going to sleep ever as Wiker, even if I could? I'm not sure why anyone would. 

14 minutes ago, Quadratordo said:

Advanced Silviculture: I don't know about this one; one of my gripes with Winter as of late, is how most ''recently'' added plants just flat out ignore its gimmick of plant dormancy (see Stone Fruits, Banana Bushes and such). Perhaps it could increase the amount of harvests before needing re-fertilization? Instead of halving them, it could bring them back to normal or even double them; particularly relevant for plants like Monkeytails.

Some old plants ignore winter too, like cactus. I can see why someone wouldn't want food to be THIS trivial, but personally have no strong feelings one way or the other. 

But with resource plants winter just puts Wiker on stasis. It's not a big deal when you own the server, as you can just manage your time better and farm these resources in other seasons. But if you're on a pub, you don't have a lot of control of what time you arrive on. You'll get stuck for 2 hours without a way to farm reeds and might as well just leave. There is an option to farm papyrus with monkey queen but good luck finding her. 

4 hours ago, Arcwell said:

I don't care for the extra range

I forgot to address this one. When tentacles get crowded they tent to fail to spawn, even tho there is still a lot of room. I haven't looked at the code and not sure how exsactly they check for spawning place, so I just assumed if they'll check a bigger area they'll have a lesser chance of being "unable to break though the floor here".

You seem to know a lot, maybe you could hit me with a trivia 

[Arcwell]

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

That's reasonable, but I couldn't quite figure out how to seperate this into 3 upgrade skills that also won't have hard confusing math. In order for the book to have 6 uses it needs to consume from 17% to 19% per use which is very difficult to keep track of. And I've never quite understood or liked the idea behind some books having less uses, is that like a nerf? Why bird book?

And the upgrades end up being 3>4>5>7 and 5>7>8?>10 consuming 34>25>20>15 and 20>15>12,5?>10 durability % respectively. Everything except for tier 2 big books is alright, altho a little bit hard to keep track of. 

Mm, the fraction-durability is a good point I hadn't thought of. We do already have to deal with 33.33% durability loss on 3-cast books though, so I don't think it would be much different.
As for the difference in casts between books, admittedly it is pretty weird how they're assigned (especially the bird book), but I just don't expect Klei to do away with that system. I wouldn't be opposed to it or anything if they did, it's just kind of a baseline expectation I have.

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

True, might have went overboard. I'm worried that this branch hardly has utility outside of spammable books like gardening, fishing and tentacles, and the only book that actually benefits a lot instead of just being a qol is the sleep book. 

Personally I'd spend points on it regardless because the timesave is nice, but if you're worried about it lacking utility you could always bundle it with other skills or condense the skill point requirement (i.e. 2 skills 1.5x->2x, or even just 1 skill).

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

I've made a math mistake and am ashamed. 33 sanity is 33% less than 50, but for some reason I had a brain fart and didn't calculate upgrades with the same formula. It should be 50/33>33>22>15. Like with durability, I never understood why some books drain more sanity (WHY BIRD BOOK?) and feel like this just creates confusion. Or... it could be 50/33 > 33/22 >  22/15 > 15/10 and maybe that's better. 

As for the downside, I'm not a fan of sanity management. I've tried using bee queen crown to run on tentacles for exsample but it's sooooooo slow. I tried farming sanity food and that's a lot worse! I've tried dealing with it and killing shadows and o my God I think I killed more shadows as reworked Wiker than I did as all other characters combined since 2016. I've tried wearing shantern/crown but it's like trying to quit an addiction. You gotta do it every day, and allowing yourself to indulge once will undo all the progress over a long time period. Another solution is to limit book consumption, but having 18 of them really does not help with that. No other character punishes you so hard for trying to use perks, and over the years of experience my opinion on said perks really went down. 

And in the end, you can trivialize sanity regardless, once you get the bone helmet which is my main and only way of dealing with her downside. 

I do understand not wanting to deal with sanity management. There's a running joke I have among friends that goes "it's physically impossible to be sane while playing Wickerbottom", and obviously fighting nightmare creatures 24/7 gets very tiring very quickly. Still, I feel like it's an integral part of her character and trivializing that just feels wrong. 15 is more reasonable than 8.25 but it still feels too low to me.
As for bone helm: it's valid, but I don't think that justifies having an effect similar to it from day 1 without using an equip slot.

I can't help but feel like there's some better way to accomplish the sanity dilemma, but I'm not sure what it would be outside of affinities.

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

Yeah, me neither. Bee book is my least favorite for many many reasons and I never really use it. I lack experience with it and just assumed those stats would work. My main gripe is that they are just obnoxious, you know? I'd like them to do their thing and then go away. 

I get that. Killing them all off are using them for like 1-2 fights is pretty tedious. I'm not really sure what would be good for this book, kinda hoping Klei does something unexpected with it. Same goes for the entire Wickerbottom skill tree tbh (anything but cooldowns though ).

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

No way! I thought it was pretty cool how multiple books suffer from low range (all of them have 3 turfs range) and can be fixed together. Web and light 1 also suffer from duration, fire pen suffers from low durability and I forgot to mention web book also suffers from the slow down itself which is just 25%.

I never actually liked that light 2 exists. Wiker rework smells like deadline but even if klei's goal was to come up with 10 books regardless of quality, they ended up making 11. So why make light book twice? 

Ah, I don't mean to say it's a bad skill, it's fine honestly. It's just that I've always thought those three books were the more lackluster ones and I'd love for the skilltree to breathe some life into them. I might be hoping for too much there though.
I never understood the point of having 2 light books either. It makes sense for horticulture but I don't see why I'd ever use Lux Aeterna instead of Lux Aeterna Redux .

1 hour ago, Gi-Go said:

I think you misunderstood, which is why you liked the idea on accident. 

It works as the regular moon based Wiker. Which means books don't spawn gestalts nor increase enlightment. They decrease it instead, in other words get rid of the enlightenment and make you normal, essentially rewarding you for reading books instead of punishing.

Is it overpowered and trivializes her main and only downside, while also making my own sanity branch pointless? Yes, yes it does. But if you ever lived on the moon, this is what life trully is about. 

Ah. Yes, I did misunderstand that. If the skill is just permanent enlightenment with no strings attached then I'd be opposed to it. That feels extremely polarizing, like the 2nd affinity would never be worthwhile. Still, I do like the enlightenment concept and think it's workable.

24 minutes ago, Gi-Go said:

I forgot to address this one. When tentacles get crowded they tent to fail to spawn, even tho there is still a lot of room. I haven't looked at the code and not sure how exsactly they check for spawning place, so I just assumed if they'll check a bigger area they'll have a lesser chance of being "unable to break though the floor here".

You seem to know a lot, maybe you could hit me with a trivia 

Initially yes, more space would mean less failed tentacle spawns. The issue is that once you start to reach high tentacle density, they'd start failing at the same rate. And since there's more space to cover, you'd need to spend exponentially more time filling up a large tentacle field to max (or almost max) density than you would to fill a small tentacle field to the same density.

[Valase]

I really liked this!

the only things that I don't think are good are the affinities and the bee branch, as the lunar would make impossible(?) to get nightmarefuel outside the ruins, the shadow one would be useless without the portal/multiplayer and for the bees, having them for a limited time would always feel not so great, I think that a "beekeeping" book would be more welcome so you can manage when you want the bees in action or not. (especially since in the tree already is a sanity, cast time and durability cost reduction)

one thing that I'm "missing" in this skill tree is more books!

[Gi-Go]

34 minutes ago, Valase said:

one thing that I'm "missing" in this skill tree is more books!

Maybe it wouldn't be bad to add some, but I definitely don't want to come up with them myself as it's too much creative freedom for me to handle. 

 

37 minutes ago, Valase said:

as the lunar would make impossible(?) to get nightmarefuel outside the ruins.

I think it's a small downside compared to the benefits. You can squeeze the juice out of dark petals, enough to get yourself a sleep book. 

[Jakepeng99]

The general skill tree part is way too op as it makes using books have 0 consequencies. The lunar affinity is broken and doesnt work, except the shadow alignment which is weird and probably shouldn't exist. 

 

Remove those skills all together, and the skilltree is alright.

 

 

 

[Gi-Go]

53 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The general skill tree part is way too op as it makes using books have 0 consequencies.

Why should Wikerbottom have consequences for using her mediocre kit? Who else is punished for using perks?

But you are right. I also think Wurt should have consequences for crafting merm houses tbh. Each merm you craft must be fed same amount as the king, or else they rebel and burn your base. I don't like how you play Wurt, and then suffer no consequences. OP. 

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, Gi-Go said:

Why should Wikerbottom have consequences for using her mediocre kit? Who else is punished for using perks?

But you are right. I also think Wurt should have consequences for crafting merm houses tbh. Each merm you craft must be fed same amount as the king, or else they rebel and burn your base. I don't like how you play Wurt, and then suffer no consequences. OP. 

The only true downside Wickerbottom has is the sainity loss from her books. Her other downsides of no sleeping and less stats from moldy food do barely a thing. Also, her books is one of the strongest collection of items.

 

Also Wurt has downsides, and merms need lots of resources to create and have weaknesses.

[Gi-Go]

4 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

one of the strongest collection of items.

They are very overrated. 

6 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wurt has downsides

Fun downsides > no downsides > obnoxious crap downsides