Please make Compost Wrap require compost to craft

[Mortalbane]

I've edited this post to include more arguments and suggestions, cuz nobody reads the discussion anyway

Seeing the new salt lick made out of salt, "because we now have salt in the game", made me wondering if same can be done for the compost wrap.
I'd really like to see compost replacing nitre specifically in the recipe, because:
- it is harder to renew nitre than, for example, components of the honey poultice
- you can't make nitre grow at your base and be easy to access
- maybe it will encourage people to use it as fertilizer too, not just as WW heal
- Winona will come and eat all the nitre in the world

P.S. I hope that the new salt lick is refuelable
P.P.S. Please swap Seed Sleuth and plant's needs information buttons, so that we don't have to endlessly equip and unequip shovel while trying to utilize Seed Sleuth, or hold Alt all the time

P.P.P.S. Who cares about Wurt's skill tree - the most viewed and discussed post should be the com-post xD

My suggestions:

a) Change the recipe of the Compost Wrap to include compost, preferably instead of nitre. Also reduce the manure cost. I mean, ipecaca is nice, but forcing us to have it is not (or endlessly gather lightbulbs to feed werepigs)

b) Make a separate item that requires compost, and some simple ingredients. I don't like this solution, same as i don't like that the original salt lick still has same name and still has no salt in the recipe.

c) Rework the useless Tillweed Salve into a Compost Wrap that uses compost and tillweed, introduce weed seeds, or another way to grow weeds reliably, which is not that simple.
 

How i see a compost wrap:
1 compost + 1 manure = heal 6 hp flat + 14 hp over time, heal over time stacks, no blooming
Cheap, easy, no running around for nitre

How to deal with no blooming in this wrap:
a) eat super growth formula, or go fishing - why else did Klei make all that? =)
Btw i hope ocean fishing will see an improvement.
If you need an early blooming, hammer merm heads. On average, i don't think it will take more time than getting 2 rot, 1 nitre and 5 manure

b) maybe allow us to eat nitre for blooming?
The real-life niter is indeed useful for plants, but in high concentration is harmful. I'd like the ability to eat nitre as WW for blooming, but take some damage for it.


By the way, i have another major rework concept for WW, called "The Cute Junkie", maybe i'll post it someday.
There i've been thinking about nitre and blooming too, and have Nitre Powder, which is made from nitre (duh), and can be consumed to increase blooming. Also in addition to consuming powders, blooming in my rework is tied to happiness (sanity). Hence the name junkie =)

[Mojmaowo]

7 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

Seeing the new salt lick made out of salt, "because we now have salt in the game", made me wondering if same can be done for the compost wrap.
I'd really like to see compost replacing nitre specifically in the recipe, because:
- it is harder to renew nitre than, for example, components of the honey poultice
- maybe it will encourage people to use it as fertilizer too, not just as WW heal
- Winona will come and eat all the nitre in the world

P.S. I hope that the new salt lick is renewable
P.P.S. Please swap Seed Sleuth and plant's needs information buttons, so that we don't have to endlessly equip and unequip shovel while trying to utilize Seed Sleuth

I think the entire compost wrap needs a rework it just isn't good it is too expensive and gives less nutrients than you use to craft it. it is really bad fertilizer and it's only good use is to heal wormwood or for wormwoods specific crafts

[mykenception]

1 hour ago, Mortalbane said:

P.P.S. Please swap Seed Sleuth and plant's needs information buttons, so that we don't have to endlessly equip and unequip shovel while trying to utilize Seed Sleuth

are you playing on pc?

last I check doing ALT+left click on an unidentified seed makes wormwood say what kind of plant it is

[Ohan]

This would be a bad change. 

the entire usefulness of compost wrap is that it can be made with raw ingredients and doesnt need science or any kind of set up. 

Suggesting it should require compost just because its in the name completely misses the point of the item in actual gameplay. 

 

Between meteor showers, petrified forests and acid rain nitre has already been made extremely renewable. Especially considering how niche it is outside of survivor specific needs. Introduction of sea saltlick also removes one of the biggest nitre drains in the game 

[Jakepeng99]

, one of its main niche is early game growth formula .

[Mortalbane]

1 hour ago, mykenception said:

last I check doing ALT+left click on an unidentified seed makes wormwood say what kind of plant it is

Wow, you are right, thanks!
Still i think that swapping buttons would be good, cuz:
- there could be more players like me who wouldn't try using Alt after seeing the function bound to RMB
- it's logical to tell plant's needs after you "talk" to them via the first RMB click
- kinda don't like pressing more buttons for functions that are used more often than those which require less buttons

1 hour ago, Ohan said:

the entire usefulness of compost wrap is that it can be made with raw ingredients and doesnt need science or any kind of set up. 

Suggesting it should require compost just because its in the name completely misses the point of the item in actual gameplay. 

Sir, you are so far from truth here, that i can barely see you =)

Compost wrap requires such resources that there is no way you will mass-produce it before you get alchemy engine. You can easily have alchemy way before you find a single poop, not to say 10, 15, or more. Same goes for rot, it is lucky to find it on day one.

Idk your gameplay, but in my gameplay having compost is much better and easier than having nitre. Especially with that Winona on the horizon

[Mojmaowo]

13 minutes ago, Ohan said:

This would be a bad change. 

the entire usefulness of compost wrap is that it can be made with raw ingredients and doesnt need science or any kind of set up. 

Suggesting it should require compost just because its in the name completely misses the point of the item in actual gameplay. 

 

Between meteor showers, petrified forests and acid rain nitre has already been made extremely renewable. Especially considering how niche it is outside of survivor specific needs. Introduction of sea saltlick also removes one of the biggest nitre drains in the game 

Not true because the rot you need to craft it gives compost and it is better to just use 4 rot than 2 rot and 5 manure unless you somehow think that 5 manure is cheaper than 2 rot

[Jakepeng99]

You can use the syrup of impecca to cheaply get tons if poop.

2 hours ago, Mortalbane said:

I'd really like to see compost replacing nitre specifically in the recipe, because:

Nitre is already bad early and lategame though, we shouldnt make it even more so unessisarly. Nitre is useful for wormwood because of this.

[Mojmaowo]

2 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You can use the syrup of impecca to cheaply get tons if poop.

 

"Cheaply" is too expensive when you compare it to rot the compost wrap is simply too expensive to use as a fertiliser when the only thing it adds to it's original cost is growth formula which is the cheapest nutrient in this game

[Mortalbane]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

You can use the syrup of impecca to cheaply get tons if poop.

So i'm forced to pick a skill if i want an item from the base kit?
Also, i would need honey, again rot, a mushroom, and a pooping creature - how is that easier-to-setup and faster than getting alchemy?

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Nitre is already bad early and lategame though, we shouldnt make it even more so unessisarly. Nitre is useful for wormwood because of this.

Bad renewability and thus limited uses is Klei's problem, don't make it my problem.
I can place compost bins in my base, and have access to compost whenever and in any quantity.

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, Mojmaowo said:

"Cheaply" is too expensive when you compare it to rot the compost wrap is simply too expensive to use as a fertiliser when the only thing it adds to it's original cost is growth formula which is the cheapest nutrient in this game

Using fertaliser in general is never really worth it anyway.

Lazy farming (petting the in season crops once, watering them and then leaving them be until they grow) and crop combos are normally better.

 

If you do use fertaliser, once you get bottles and kelp, growth formula bottles give all the formula you need. Same as poop buckets. Multi nutrients as a concept is not so useful.

4 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

So i'm forced to pick a skill if i want an item from the base kit?
Also, i would need honey, again rot, a mushroom, and a pooping creature - how is that easier-to-setup and faster than getting alchemy?

Yes, if you want more poop get the skill. You dont need this skill to craft it either.

Punch a bee for honey (you will probably do this for husks). The other two ingredients are not much an issue.

[Mojmaowo]

7 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Using fertaliser in general is never really worth it anyway.

Lazy farming (petting the in season crops once, watering them and then leaving them be until they grow) and crop combos are normally better.

 

If you do use fertaliser, once you get bottles and kelp, growth formula bottles give all the formula you need. Same as poop buckets. Multi nutrients as a concept is not so useful.

I thought you didn't know anything about farming and I am proven correct because "lazy farming" is extremely inefficient no wonder you think that farming is bad the main good ways to farm is to use crop combos and monofarm with growth formula

[Mortalbane]

1 hour ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Yes, if you want more poop get the skill. You dont need this skill to craft it either.

Punch a bee for honey (you will probably do this for husks). The other two ingredients are not much an issue.

Well, you've said it yourself.
And none of the ingredients are the issue to get. The issue is how much running around and setting up you need before you can mass-produce compost wraps (which are not even that great), and even more so for honey heals.
Replacing nitre with compost will make it a lot easier, idk how you don't see it. Not to mention that it will match the name.

[arubaro]

That is a nerf 

You can do many in early to heal and to trigger blooming

Nitre is plentiful with meteors, pretrification and eels ponds post rifts

[Jakepeng99]

28 minutes ago, arubaro said:

Nitre is plentiful with meteors, pretrification and eels ponds post rifts

Moleworms too.

[Mortalbane]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

That is a nerf 

You can do many in early to heal and to trigger blooming

Nitre is plentiful with meteors, pretrification and eels ponds post rifts

No it's not.
Which of those can i bring to my base and have access to whenever i want? Like i do with compost

Also yeah, imagine using compost wrap post rifts

[arubaro]

11 minutes ago, Mortalbane said:

No it's not.
Which of those can i bring to my base and have access to whenever i want? Like i do with compost

Also yeah, imagine using compost wrap post rifts

If you dont use it it post rift why you want to nerf them pre-setting a base?

Imagine having problems at getting nitre

[Mortalbane]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Imagine having problems at getting nitre

So, how nitre is easier to get than compost? In any quantity i want
How do you see buff as a nerf?
How is getting compost not a early game, when it can be done faster than compost wrap itself?

[arubaro]

1 hour ago, Mortalbane said:

So, how nitre is easier to get than compost? In any quantity i want
How do you see buff as a nerf?
How is getting compost not a early game, when it can be done faster than compost wrap itself?

Because by the time you have set a minicamp to craft the compost bin and wait until it produces the compost with the resources you must gather everybody is heading to the ruins with a bunch of nitre prepare to mass craft wraps

It only cost 1 single piece of nitre. One

[Mortalbane]

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

Because by the time you have set a minicamp to craft the compost bin and wait until it produces the compost with the resources you must gather everybody is heading to the ruins with a bunch of nitre prepare to mass craft wraps

So we are talking what, day 2? Where did you get all the rot and poop for mass crafting wraps?
Who everybody is going to the ruins? From what you are saying it's like we play in a Wormwood server, where everyone is Wormwood, and they all go ruin rushing, while i wait for my compost? When you are making arguments, please at least try to make sense
Compost is hard to make? Like any food (monster meat, seeds, berries, whatever) + sticks or grass, is that hard? And all of those can be moved to be in the base, but nitre boulders can't be moved.
Also, people pick WW to rush ruins since when?
I play on public servers and i have never seen a WW who is rushing ruins, instead of rushing to the farm.

You know what else i never see? Compost bins. Klei made the object and all those animations for it to never see use, but that could be changed, while also giving more farm vibe to the main farmer of DST.

1 hour ago, arubaro said:

It only cost 1 single piece of nitre. One

Yeah, exactly one more than i'd like. Sure, mining a mosaic will get you some fast nitre, once. After that, compost beats nitre in every aspect of accessibility.
Especially when after the update Winonas will be everywhere, taking all the nitre they can see.

[NoodlemanNed]

in the earlygame you have mosaic rocks, and later one the cave rifts provide an endless supply. sure its not the cheapest ingredient but the item itself is very useful and one of the last items that deserves some sort of rework.

it might not be your favorite item but its still perfectly strong as it is.

[Mortalbane]

2 hours ago, NoodlemanNed said:

in the earlygame you have mosaic rocks, and later one the cave rifts provide an endless supply. sure its not the cheapest ingredient but the item itself is very useful and one of the last items that deserves some sort of rework.

it might not be your favorite item but its still perfectly strong as it is.

You might think that it is perfect, but why would i want it changed then?
On the public servers you won't have whole mosaic for yourself, especially with all those Winonas coming. And i have never seen cave rifts opened on public servers, but if i do, by that time i will be using honey heals.

Yes, it is the last thing that needs rework, the first things are farming and Wormwood's skill tree itself, but now Klei has other stuff in plans. And it is much easier to change than those major things.
So, before the current character update phase ends and the next one starts, what is wrong with making a small change for the item to make it more accessible and more farm-related, since the majority of Wormwood players pick him for farming?

[ryukamiya]

Why do I have to undergo such a change?
It's painful not being able to use the precious flowering material and recovery material at the very beginning.

Compost is said to be cheap, but it costs time to create.
I'm playing Wormwood, and I use saltpeter as a healing material. However, if you dig diligently, you can collect enough.
You can gather a large amount just by having Bear dig in the Petrified Forest.

At least when I play multiplayer, I collect stones, including saltpetre, for myself as well as for those around me.
So that Wormwood wouldn't be accused of embezzling saltpeter.
I want to play while being considerate of those around me.

[Mortalbane]

2 hours ago, ryukamiya said:

It's painful not being able to use the precious flowering material and recovery material at the very beginning.

By the time you have bosses chopping you a petrified forest, you should not be using compost wraps.

Why do people keep saying that compost is not early game? You know that it can be made faster than rot, which you need anyway?
Why people prefer wasting time on going to get more nitre, rather than making compost right at your base?
This all is beyond my understanding.
I just hope Klei has more sense and they will indeed change compost wraps.

[Guille6785]

1 hour ago, Mortalbane said:

Why do people keep saying that compost is not early game? You know that it can be made faster than rot, which you need anyway?
Why people prefer wasting time on going to get more nitre, rather than making compost right at your base?
This all is beyond my understanding.
I just hope Klei has more sense and they will indeed change compost wraps.

People have explained this in prior posts already, I don't know why you act as if this change is objectively better and the reasonable thing for Klei to do