Should Console Commands Be Allowed In Speedrun / Challenges To Manipulate RNG Loot Table Probability?

[goatt]

Question: in a speedrun, if you didn't get Tusk in your first hunt, should you be allowed to use console commands to summon one because not having one will slow down your speed?

 

I think that's a no.

Tusk drop rate is 50%.

If you have good luck and got it the first time, console commands won't be needed.

If you have average luck and get it in the second hunt, it's not unfortunate. Game is being fair.

If you have bad luck and can't get it after several more hunts, well, you probably want to abandon this run since you've wasted more time than planned, so it doesn't matter whether console commands are used because this run is not good enough to be recorded.

 

The same goes with orange staff (38.5% chance from ornate chest, for fighting fw), or celestial orb (not sure averagely how many days for fighting cc), or sack (10% chance for getting sack), or treeguards (1.3% chance on day 1 for getting living logs), console commands shouldn't be used to summon those items, because that would violate loot table's probability distribution.

 

RNG exists in game, but a big part of the challenge / speedrun is to use your skill to overcome the unpredictable obstables and come up with unique solutions. Removing randomness by using console commands , in my opinion, defeats the purpose of challenge / speedrun.

 

A more interesting question is: what if I restart the same run on the same map again and again until I get good luck? Isn't that equivelent to using console commands? If they are equivelent, both should be forbidden. If repeating the same map is allowed, console commands should also be allowed.

Technically, that's true, I think. In reality, you are allowed to repeat as many times as possible on a seeded map. So should console commands be allowed?

However, there are several difference:

1. In order to record a run with all the good luck without console commands , it will take way more time than to record it with console commands. So console commands brings advantage in time investment.

2. After repeating many times, you may still not get any luck in the end, without using console commands. One can guarentee good result, the other cannot.

Plus, the sport is divided into seeded and unseeded categories. Your repeated runs' result is competing with others' repeated runs' result, which is fair. Unseeded category requires a lot more skills and creativity, and is its own category.

 

Now an even more interesting question is: what if I try my well-designed plan on unseeded maps repeatedly until I get all good lucks and beat the challenge?

Technically, that's not violating any rules. Using console commands can very much emulate the good lucks. Can we just use console commands to emulate that effect to save time?

Yes, in simulation. But no in real runs or real game. Reasons:

1. If we can give green light to using console commands for that, we should also allow admins to use console commands to sommon Krampus sack every time someone kills a Krampus in any servers, to save time. It would change how we play the game fundamentally.

2. Time cost. It will take way more time to record a good-luck run without using console commands , because most of the run will have only normal / bad luck.

3. That means, if you have good luck, you can defeat a more skilled player. The unfair part is, you are guarenteed to defeat a more skilled player when you summon good luck using console commands, every time. In other words, using console commands is a vastly unfair advantage against those who don't use it.

 

A logical followup question would be: What if everyone is allowed to use it to remove such unfairness?

You mean a speedrun challenge where everyone is allowed to use console commands as much as they want? I'm not sure what's the point of the game with such rules.

 

So in conclusion, my opinion is: no.

(A side note. I'm not criticizing luck in speedruns. I think luck or rng is a fair factor. I'm criticizing artificial luck or manipulation over rng.)

[Guille6785]

FYI there is a speedrun community that already answered all these questions a long time ago

[NoodlemanNed]

if someone finds it more fun to manipulate rng in a challenge it makes sense to do so. As far as i know people dont get paid to do runs like that so it makes sense to cut out on things that just result in repeating the same thing while expecting different results.

[Arcwell]

If you're not competing with anyone, do whatever you want.

If you are competing with others (i.e. speedrun.com submission), there are rules for this already, and yes, console commands are banned in this format.

[plato2066]

Why are you pretending to make a point about console commands in speedruns? The c_give command is explicitly banned in every speedrunning community I know of. It is clear you only care about guille giving himself a lazy explorer in his run, which he did with his own ruleset.

[AliceShiki]

It just depends on the Speedrun category, I'd say?

If someone wants to make a Speedrun category that allows console commands, and there are enough people who think that would be fun to run, they can contact the moderators of the speedrun.com board to see if a new category for it can be made.

If someone prefers to run without console commands, then they can just run on the appropriate categories for it.

It's as simple as that. Speedruns have different categories for a reason. It's to let people run in the way they want (for as long as a decent number of people want to run said category, of course. The mods won't make a new category for just one person, after all).