What's your least favoured character?

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

I think ive explained my counter points with good logic

you didnt explained with logic how wendy isnt unique or how bernie is better at fighting hordes, you just jumped to talk about other stuff

[Gashzer]

Just now, arubaro said:

you didnt explained with logic how wendy isnt unique or how bernie is better at fighting hordes, you just jumped to talk about other stuff

Wormwood can give AoE damage to everyone. Abigail isnt unique in doing AoE damage. Winona catapults can create AoE farms. Abigail isnt unique in doing AoE damage. 

Merms and spider armies can help against hoards of mobs the same way abigail can, just abit less efficient, bernie can also help kill/farm hordes of mobs you just need to stand beside him and hold f.

However one thing no follower in the game can do is attack shadow creatures. This means bernie can fight hordes of shadow creatures. This is a horde of mobs that merms, spiders and abigail cant touch or help you with. 

This makes Bernie the single most unique follower in the game. Second place would go to the nurse spider.

Ive said this like 3 times now lol how are you missing this??

[arubaro]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wormwood can give AoE damage to everyone. Abigail isnt unique in doing AoE damage. Winona catapults can create AoE farms. Abigail isnt unique in doing AoE damage. 

Merms and spider armies can help against hoards of mobs the same way abigail can, just abit less efficient, bernie can also help kill/farm hordes of mobs you just need to stand beside him and hold f.

However one thing no follower in the game can do is attack shadow creatures. This means bernie can fight hordes of shadow creatures. This is a horde of mobs that merms, spiders and abigail cant touch or help you with. 

This makes Bernie the single most unique follower in the game. Second place would go to the nurse spider.

Ive said this like 3 times now lol how are you missing this??

clearly you never played wendy

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

clearly you never played wendy

I have. She isnt unique thereby doesnt hold my attention and make me want to play her. Im shocked any experienced player uses her when the celestial portal exists.

If i want to rush bee queen solo in a pub. Ill play Winona because even if i leave the server later, ive set up permanent catapults to help others. Wendy is selfish in a pub bee queen rush.

If i want to have the ability to easily farm spiders or have hound/splumonkey protection. I can craft bramble husks for the team or myself as Wormwood while bringing all the other fantastic utility perks he has.

[arubaro]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

I have. She isnt unique thereby doesnt hold my attention and make me want to play her. Im shocked any experienced player uses her when the celestial portal exists.

If i want to rush bee queen solo in a pub. Ill play Winona because even if i leave the server later, ive set up permanent catapults to help others. Wendy is selfish in a pub bee queen rush.

If i want to have the ability to easily farm spiders or have hound/splumonkey protection. I can craft bramble husks for the team or myself as Wormwood while bringing all the other fantastic utility perks he has.

man, choosing a character isnt only based on min max. people choose wendy because, unlike hiring mobs, you must have a little of care about her if you dont want a sanity penalty and fight with less damage than average character on top of being able to give her boosts with her elixirs (which i hope klei revisit some of them and add more). Also nobody actually goes with 24/7 followes

i dont care if wormwood can tank with an armor to deal dps or why i should care that willow can summon a low dps bear when low sanity?? 

her gameplay is unique

 

pd. im still waiting how Bernie can deal with hordes of enemies;)

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

If i want to rush bee queen solo in a pub. Ill play Winona because even if i leave the server later, ive set up permanent catapults to help others. Wendy is selfish in a pub bee queen rush.

If i want to have the ability to easily farm spiders or have hound/splumonkey protection. I can craft bramble husks for the team or myself as Wormwood while bringing all the other fantastic utility perks he has.

also this is dumb because you are talking about 1 character saying that you can choose 2 different characters to do the same but worst while wendy can do both things waaaay better and cheaper

[Harrowick]

I still forget Winona's in the game unless I spend a few extra seconds in the character screen because I can't decide who to play.

[Gashzer]

3 minutes ago, arubaro said:

man, choosing a character isnt only based on min max. people choose wendy because, unlike hiring mobs, you must have a little of care about her if you dont want a sanity penalty and fight with less damage than average character on top of being able to give her boosts with her elixirs (which i hope klei revisit some of them and add more). Also nobody actually goes with 24/7 followes

i dont care if wormwood can tank with an armor to deal dps or why i should care that willow can summon a low dps bear when low sanity?? 

her gameplay is unique

Wendys gameplay forces you into taming a beefalo to get around the second worst downside in the game. 0.75% damage is crazy bad and abigail cant even help wendy against shadow creatures. 

Wendy has the least flexible gameplay of all characters.

Wendy appeals to lazy people.

6 minutes ago, arubaro said:

pd. im still waiting how Bernie can deal with hordes of enemies;)

He has a AoE zero damage attack to draw aggro off you. Willow can attack them without getting overwhelmed or just run past them. Hence horde is dealt with 

7 minutes ago, arubaro said:

also this is dumb because you are talking about 1 character saying that you can choose 2 different characters to do the same but worst while wendy can do both things waaaay better and cheaper

Celestial portal means im all characters. What does Wendy bring to this? I can switch to winona for catapults for bee queen then switch to wormwood for bramble husks then switch off to whoever i want and still have access to great AoE damage. Ive zero reason to switch/start playing as Wendy.

[arubaro]

Just now, Gashzer said:

He has a AoE zero damage attack to draw aggro off you. Willow can attack them without getting overwhelmed or just run past them. Hence horde is dealt with 

so? bernie cant deal with hordes like abi can.

tip: you can help wendy too lmao 

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Celestial portal means im all characters. What does Wendy bring to this? I can switch to winona for catapults for bee queen then switch to wormwood for bramble husks then switch off to whoever i want and still have access to great AoE damage. Ive zero reason to switch/start playing as Wendy

not everybody is as unskilled to need celestial portal to deal with bosses easily also it has a cost

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Wendys gameplay forces you into taming a beefalo to get around the second worst downside in the game. 0.75% damage is crazy bad and abigail cant even help wendy against shadow creatures

she doesnt forced you, didnt saw wendy comming to me with a gun

i killed all pre CK bosses as her and never tamed an hornery beefalo

you complain about her downside. I though wendy wasnt unique hmmm

[grm9]

7 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

great AoE damage

having to tank a hit to produce 22 AoE damage isn't great

[Gashzer]

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

so? bernie cant deal with hordes like abi can.

Yeah hes better he can deal with nightmare creatures while abi cant 

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

not everybody is as unskilled to need celestial portal to deal with bosses easily also it has a cost

Its fun to merge all the upsides/crafts between different characters. Its a shame Wendy doesnt have anything fun to add to the mix.

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

she doesnt forced you, didnt saw wendy comming to me with a gun

We both know if Wendy had a gun to threaten us with she definitely would lol

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

i killed all pre CK bosses as her and never tamed an hornery beefalo

Good job playing the game on tedious mode. I applaud you good sir! 

9 minutes ago, arubaro said:

you complain about her downside. I though wendy wasnt unique hmmm

I guess i was wrong..... Wendy is unique.

Uniquely terrible! 

4 minutes ago, grm9 said:

having to tank a hit to produce 22 AoE damage isn't great

It adds up fast. Ill happily trade abit of health to not have to play wendy 

[grm9]

4 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Willow can farm shadow splumonkeys with bernie super easy what are you on about? I get like a billion beard hair for mass bernie production during the nightmare phase lol

(ignore the character looking like wilson, was doing some other stuff before that)

am i doing something wrong

 

 

[Arcwell]

3 hours ago, Gashzer said:

Wendys gameplay forces you into taming a beefalo to get around the second worst downside in the game. 0.75% damage is crazy bad and abigail cant even help wendy against shadow creatures. 

This is misleading.

Wendy only deals 0.75x damage when Abigail is not attacking the same target as you. If Abigail is attacking the same target, Wendy's damage jumps to 0.75 * 1.1 * 1.4 = 1.155x damage, not including the additional damage of Abigail.

Wendy isn't incentivized to tame beefalo just because it gets around a downside, it's because with a beefalo, Wendy can get a 1.54x damage modifier which is decidedly above average.

[Gashzer]

24 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

This is misleading.

Wendy only deals 0.75x damage when Abigail is not attacking the same target as you. If Abigail is attacking the same target, Wendy's damage jumps to 0.75 * 1.1 * 1.4 = 1.155x damage, not including the additional damage of Abigail.

Wendy isn't incentivized to tame beefalo just because it gets around a downside, it's because with a beefalo, Wendy can get a 1.54x damage modifier which is decidedly above average.

This is misleading.

Abigail isn't usable for all combat situations or requires special attention to keep alive for the likes of ancient fuelweaver an such. So wendys downside is very much a big deal for alot of situations.

Especially nightmare creatures which are required for crafting all the cool and useful gear in the game.... the one mob type thats the best to farm and wendy is the worst for killing them hahahah the irony. (Yeah yeah shadow splumonkeys but that requires you to be in the ruins and for it to be in the nightmare phase... not a flexible farming method...)

Yeah i understand the beefalo allowing wendy to get extra dps hence her playstyle is very much tailored to getting an ornery. Which is not a very flexible like i said before.... every day you dont have a beefalo you are missing out on damage... 

Aye she is very overrated. Very cool aesthetically tho ill give Wendy that.

[grm9]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

 every day you dont have a beefalo you are missing out on damage

what do you want to kill in the first 20 days that you can't use abigail for if you mean specifically getting a fully tamed ornery 

[Gashzer]

30 minutes ago, grm9 said:

(ignore the character looking like wilson, was doing some other stuff before that)

am i doing something wrong

 

Yeah this isnt applicable to a real situation. Number one; you are going to be helping bernie out. Number two; 40 monkeys will not be coming at you all at once. Number 3; i personally have a sewing kit and an extra bernie before i step foot into the ruins so the second he dies i can spawn another big bernie and repair the first one.

Number 4; abigail cant farm nightmare creatures.

Bernie wins.

Sorry grm9 you lose bro 

[grm9]

10 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Yeah this isnt applicable to a real situation. Number one; you are going to be helping bernie out. Number two; 40 monkeys will not be coming at you all at once. Number 3; i personally have a sewing kit and an extra bernie before i step foot into the ruins so the second he dies i can spawn another big bernie and repair the first one.

Number 4; abigail cant farm nightmare creatures.

Bernie wins.

Sorry grm9 you lose bro 

i kept attacking near bernie if you didn't notice, it might be less but he still died before even half of them died, abigail doesn't spend resources while bernie spends sewing kits, nightmares aren't the only things in the game and what do you need a lot of nightmare fuel for if you're using beefalo instead of dark sword, magi/bone armor/night armor/thule armor and thule crown

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

i kept attacking near bernie if you didn't notice, it might be less but he still died before even half of them died, nightmares aren't the only things in the game and what do you need a lot of nightmare fuel for if you're using beefalo instead of dark sword, magi/bone armor/night armor/thule armor and thule crown

This would be a great point if beefalo taming wasnt a tedious as F process. I used to tame beefalos all the time but recently i have tighted up my inventory management and embraced the no backpack playstyle and left beefalo taming behind... and my god does it feel so much nicer.

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

This would be a great point if beefalo taming wasnt a tedious as F process. I used to tame beefalos all the time but recently i have tighted up my inventory management and embraced the no backpack playstyle and left beefalo taming behind... and my god does it feel so much nicer.

backpacks aren't related and tediousness doesn't matter because you'll still do stuff faster than someone without a beefalo even before fully taming it 

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, grm9 said:

backpacks aren't related and tediousness doesn't matter because you'll still do stuff faster than someone without a beefalo even before fully taming it 

Tediousness does matter and ruins rushing becomes riskier with a non-fully tamed beefalo.

Walter has the same speed boost as a beefalo without the time it takes to find beefalo, craft bell and craft saddle and deal with alot of bucking for 5 days plus the risk of the beefalo dying.

This is why Walter be s-tier yeooo 

[grm9]

1 minute ago, Gashzer said:

Walter has the same speed boost as a beefalo without the time it takes to find beefalo, craft bell and craft saddle and deal with alot of bucking for 5 days plus the risk of the beefalo dying

you need to regularly spend monster meat for that and you need to be walter instead of any other character 

2 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

ruins rushing becomes riskier with a non-fully tamed beefalo

still possible to do without the beefalo dying 

[_zwb]

13 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Walter has the same speed boost as a beefalo

The same speed boost as a pudgy beefalo, which is slower than all other beefalo

Also, maybe you can demonstrate using Bernie to kill nightmare creatures in wild phase now?

[Gashzer]

2 minutes ago, grm9 said:

you need to regularly spend monster meat for that and you need to be walter instead of any other character

Its a good job monster meat periodically spawns an runs to you isnt it? Haha

Most places you want to explore for resources have monster meat dropping mobs. Blue mush has spiders, ruins has depth worms, lunar grotto has molebats, swamp has tentacles which can also give ye a nice early game weapon, lunar island has spiders etc etc

Walter has a built in void suit effect and 9 extra inventory slots to boot. Both also s-tier perks. Why wouldnt ye be Walter is the question?

Slingshot is his weakest perk by a mile... i would even prefer his portable tent that can dry/heat/heal/sanity over the slingshot.

9 minutes ago, grm9 said:

still possible to do without the beefalo dying 

But is it worth the effort? Nahhhhhh!!!

You can get a cane/mag from ruins and be close enough to a beefalo's speed.

[grm9]

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Its a good job monster meat periodically spawns an runs to you isnt it? Haha

Most places you want to explore for resources have monster meat dropping mobs. Blue mush has spiders, ruins has depth worms, lunar grotto has molebats, swamp has tentacles which can also give ye a nice early game weapon, lunar island has spiders etc etc

still need to carry it around and spend it on woby instead of e.g. food 

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Walter has a built in void suit effect

sanity drain is relevant for like 2 bosses

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

9 extra inventory slots to boot

another reminder that maxwell has 11 yet he's weak apparently 

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Why wouldnt ye be Walter is the question?

having something other than worse beefalo that has 9 inventory slots 

14 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

But is it worth the effort? Nahhhhhh!!!

You can get a cane/mag from ruins and be close enough to a beefalo's speed.

cane is RNG and magi requires not using the backpack, which is a downside if 9 more inventory slots is an upside and magi requires refueling and doesn't tank damage for you and doesn't have infinite 50-66 (77-101.64 as wendy) damage 

[Yuuko]

On 11/28/2023 at 5:30 AM, Gashzer said:

My most disliked character to play is wendy and same as other people playing her. My problem with wendy is she brings absolutely nothing unique to the team or for solo play.

Abigail being able to kill hoards of weak mobs is a pretty useless ability that cant even be transferred to your teammates unlike wormwood/winona. Both winona and wormwood can give their AoE damage to teammates or are usable if you switch off them during solo play.

 

Even Willow, a character that everyone is crying out for a re-rework is a far more useful character that can provide a discount bone helm effect for wickerbottom players and big bernie allows you to farm basic mobs like spiders and shadow splumonkey just as easily as abigail can if you do a wee bit of sanity management.

Plus Willow has the one and only follower that can distract and kill nightmare creatures which is quite literally... an insanely good perk allowing your entire team to use powerful night/dread armour and dark swords during boss fights without the possible hassle of dealing with nightmare creatures. Not to mention the nightmare fuel farming ability of bernie is awesome.

Wendy is good for the newest of new players and thats about it.

I think its not very good to compare these two because they play very differently.  I've seen it from the "Wendy is amazing why does Willow even exist" angle before, but never "Willow is actually the better summoner" lol so this kinda caught me off guard.

Wendy is definitely the more summon focused character between them.  Her damage is nerfed to accommodate for the free damage Abi deals, and Abi scales in damage based on time surviving.  Wendy also has potions that augment Abi to suit different needs.  When you play Wendy you are basically playing Wendy + Abi.  Because of this Wendy lends herself well to newer players but without skillful play will fall off when it comes to bosses and more late game content.

Willow is different, thematically and mechanically.  Bernie is not a partner to Willow, he is a protector.  He is not there to fight and deal damage he is there to tank and distract.  His design suits this well as he has an enormous health pool, can be easily stitched up to be put back in action, and can even be stacked with multiple bernies around ready to pop up the moment the current big bernie falls.  His behavior is incredibly simple - he taunts drawing aggro, and then punches a few times before repeating the taunt.

I can see why experienced players might not prefer Willow - because Bernie is a tool, and in a way a very simple tool.  If you've learned how to avoid the messes of shadow moneys and can avoid being caught between 4+ nightmare lights during the nm cycle then you might think "I just don't need Bernie" and you might be right.

BUT Bernie can be very useful in enabling that risky behavior and getting the rewards for it.  Rather than sitting around for a few minutes for the nm cycle to pass, I could instead drop bernie and work through that cluster farming more nm fuel, bananas, greater glow berries, etc faster than if I slowly worked the groups apart and whittled them down.

Also while Wendy can get very good damage with Abi, Abi is not always able to be used.  She can easily be killed by bosses especially if they do AOE damage.  Wendy is considerably weaker without Abi.  Willow has no such weakness.  If it is not a situation where Bernie helps, then you just don't use him.  He is not nearly as core to Willow's kit as Abi is to Wendy.

I think these both fit in the game well without overlapping.  If you feel Wendy is not interesting that is cool, and you can definitely have a preference for Willow but I don't think the comparison really does us any favors when saying one of them is good or bad.

[Mx-Pain]

Walter.