Clarify rover cannot make

[sorafis]

To developers

Equipment that cannot be made due to lack of materials will be grayed out in the menu, allowing the player to know in advance. However, equipment that rover cannot make are not grayed out, and the player cannot see what equipment cannot be made on the menu.

Trying to make all the equipment is tedious and not a suitable solution.

I think it would be more helpful if it were grayed out, similar to when there is a lack of materials, and the text "This equipment cannot be made by rover'' was displayed on the menu.

 

To non-developers (perhaps a player)

I welcome your constructive ideas along the topic that would like to share with developers.

This is a suggestion forum, not a mod forum, so I don't expect mere mod introductions. If you would like to provide someone with "just the mod information" related to this suggestion, I recommend you to post on the Mods and Tools forum.

[Pproy]

3 hours ago, sorafis said:

To non-developers (perhaps a player)

I welcome your constructive ideas along the topic that would like to share with developers.

This is a suggestion forum, not a mod forum, so I don't expect mere mod introductions. If you would like to provide someone with "just the mod information" related to this suggestion, I recommend you to post on the Mods and Tools forum.

So going to say this as a fellow game purist (although will probly try the disease expanded and buff biobot mod from @pether when it come out), this comment by it self is unconstructive.

When someone post their mod they made, they are trying to share their idea about the subject. I know nothing about modding, but im pretty sure it take more work than "insert_wanted_feature.exe". When you snob mods like this, you disrespect that modder idea and work.

If you dont want to install mods in your game, that fine. But it cost nothing to look at the features of said mods, even discuss how it actually affect gameplay. Lots of idea can sound great on paper, but mods can help test those ideas.

[pether]

I mean - there is nothing wrong in wanting to have mod-free games.

As you noticed, modding is not just "unlock the feature" kind of work, it often includes bugs management. They can easily appear due to unexpected interaction with other mods or after game update (those are pretty frequent recently, Klei is doing really good job there). As a result - more mods mean less stability for your game and more crash potential. I think I play with less mods than I created, and most of them provide minimal QoL changes that can be easily turned off at any moment. I see nothing wrong with taking this one step further and avoiding any mods at all.

And about the topic - if I understood correctly - there is a difference between "dupes can't build it because they lack resources" and "rover is too stupid to make it". Notice that the rover case is more similar to "your duplicants lack proper skills to build this advanced building" and notice those are not grayed out. It would be really annoying to disable building of items that you lack skills for - it would made planning much harder and tedious and lack of skills can quickly change if proper duplicant is eg. inside the rocket and disappeared from the map for a second... or the other way around - you want to build something inside a rocket (remeber - rockets are treaded as other worlds, same as colonies), but there are no duplicants there at a moment. The result would be that you couldn't build anything ever in the rockets because that colony would lack proper skills to do it. 

And back to modding - there is "Plan buildings without materials" mod by Cairath that enables placing all buildings, even if you don't have resources for them at the moment. Not saying you need to use that, but the mod is pretty popular because it makes it easier to plan things without worrying about details at that moment. What you propose is a step in other direction, I doubt it would work well...

1 hour ago, Pproy said:

(although will probly try the disease expanded and buff biobot mod from @pether when it come out)

I'm flattered! Biobot mod is comming this weekend, I have the code, it just needs some polish and testing. At the moment the bot recharges on ambient zombie spores, but I feel I will need to add more features to it later

[sorafis]

To Pproy

Since you did not write any insulting words, I will write my interpretation. I use bullet points to avoid long sentences.

★It's not that I don't want to install MODs.
★Suggestions and Feedback Forum Role: To share players' thoughts with developers.
★Purpose of posting: To share players' ideas with developers and have them reflected in the game if possible.
However, in reality, I believe that almost 100% of my ideas will not be adopted. I think of it as the same as the lottery.
★For whom (what) should the content of posts be constructive (beneficial): Developers (future of vanilla)
★Constructive or non-constructive?
・Ideas thought = constructive
・Thought ideas + MOD information = constructive
・Mod information only = non-constructive
I think forum participants need to think about the developer's intentions about created the Mods and Tools forum separate from the suggestion forum.

The above is my own interpretation and is not mandatory. However, this is an official forum, not an unofficial one, so I want the players' posts to be as useful as possible to the developers (future of vanilla). That's why I'm writing sentences for non-developers.

However, since I don't think there will be a consensus, and since this is not a discussion forum, I will end my post on interpretations within this topic. Please understand that I have no animosity towards you.

Back to the topic, do you have any topical ideas? If you have any, please share them.

[sorafis]

To pether

Thank you for your reply.

I thought after reading your point that graying out may not be the best solution. Gray display is a problem even when Duplicants and rovers are mixed.

An alternative idea is to mark the equipment icon with something, but creating an intuitive mark may be difficult.

So I came up with a simple idea.

A note will be added to the bottom of the screen that appears after clicking on a equipment , saying "Cannot be made with rover." It's an extra click, but player can see it on the menu, so at least it's more user-friendly than it is now.

 

Although not the main topic, please see the post above for my interpretation of the mod information on the Suggestions and Feedback forum.

[pether]

5 hours ago, sorafis said:

An alternative idea is to mark the equipment icon with something, but creating an intuitive mark may be difficult.

Yeah, that would be better solution.

Only potential issue may appeaar in the future if Klei is planning to add more robot types - each one would need to be included in that list and it may be too long.

But that's future problem, rn it looks solid

7 hours ago, sorafis said:

・Thought ideas + MOD information = constructive
・Mod information only = non-constructive

many mods are really creative and contain plenty of unique ideas. posting a mod is similar as posting a link to an article full of deep thoughts and well tested ideas and may be as constructive. 

Recently devs included many mods to the base game. Best example would be the snipping tool aka pliers, one of the greates additions to the game. Before there were plenty of feedback and suggestions on this forum that the mod is amazing and it should be added and I wouldn't call it unconstructive.

So I don't think the mods should be excluded from this forum. As for the question why there is separate mod sub-forum - it's a great place to ask modding questions, post updates aboout your mods, etc, but existance of it doesn't mean mods should be banned from other parts of the forum

[sorafis]

2 hours ago, pether said:

Only potential issue may appeaar in the future if Klei is planning to add more robot types - each one would need to be included in that list and it may be too long.

I hope that there will be more types of robots in the future. However, since it only adds a few lines, I don't think it will be a big problem. If no sentences are added, things can get even more confusing.

You and I have different opinions about the value of "mod information only" in the suggestion forum, but I think that can't be helped.

[Charletrom]

On 11/19/2023 at 4:43 AM, sorafis said:

I hope that there will be more types of robots in the future. However, since it only adds a few lines, I don't think it will be a big problem. If no sentences are added, things can get even more confusing.

You and I have different opinions about the value of "mod information only" in the suggestion forum, but I think that can't be helped.

You know you could just ignore any posts with mod suggestions in them… it’s a far less confrontational approach than trying to control what others post. I think you’ll find that other forum users will actually be even more likely to stay “on topic.”
 

I agree completely with Pether’s post regarding the utility of mods for developers, and would add one point: the popularity of mods can be a great indicator of player enthusiasm for potential new features. I would guess that this can be hugely helpful when making decisions about development resources.