bloopah Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Artificially limiting the player is what the video game industry is built on No it isn't. It's built on arcade machines that give players a challenge. There's no artificial limitation beyond not having enough quarters to play the game. Even if it was the case, it's not an excuse to have a game mechanic be limited. 26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: would you prefer we got rid of seasonal content too Timed content doesn't mean artificially limited. It would be so if it would never appear again, and seeing that they're based on real-life events that always come back and that you can turn every event on in the World Settings it isn't the case. 26 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Personally I dislike the very concept of the hostile flare because it takes the hunters of winter and turns them into idiots lining up for the slaughter As if Deerclops wasn't that before it was added. The ones who asked for Hostile Flare were the ones who could easily beat Deerclops every Winter but didn't get the opportunity to obtain an Eyebrella/Houndius because there were 5 other people on the server that wanted it. I doubt Deerclops is the "hunter" in that scenario. You could also make the same argument for MacTusk, since he's very easy to kill with two Pigmen and a Ham Bat. Kill the Hounds, have the Pigmen aggro on MacTusk to have them take the Blow Darts and chase after him. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 12 minutes ago, bloopah said: Timed content doesn't mean artificially limited. It would be so if it would never appear again, and seeing that they're based on real-life events that always come back and that you can turn every event on in the World Settings it isn't the case. Timed content is the very definition of artificially limited content Why should I wait for flower salad? Why should I wait till winter when the ice runs out? Why should I wait for winter for deerclops? Why should I wait for spring for moose goose? Why should I wait for summer for antlion? Why should I wait for the second Autumn for bearger? Why should I wait for seasonal fish? Why should I wait for the new moon for the shadow pieces? These are all seriously questions I've been asked in the past so what makes mac tusks any different? Oh because they have meta loot? summoning 12 deerclops or god knows how many mac tusks assuming that part is implemented back to back isn't realistic either so if we ignore the reasonability of one why not the other?. 12 minutes ago, bloopah said: No it isn't. It's built on arcade machines that give players a challenge. There's no artificial limitation beyond not having enough quarters to play the game. Even if it was the case, it's not an excuse to have a game mechanic be limited. So your saying all these games that make you do x before you can do y or wait a specific amount of time/progress to a specific point to do something isn't a artificial limitation? For example in legend of Zelda when there's a boulder blocking your path that's not artificial? In Mario when certain powerups on appear on specific levels that's not artificial? When you need to account for item durability in this game is that not artificial? Shadow creatures being immune and unaffected by most followers isn't artificial difficulty? Certain bosses having panic attacks and aoe attacks to keep you from relying entirely on followers isn't artificial? Honestly I could go on forever on this topic. 14 minutes ago, bloopah said: As if Deerclops wasn't that before it was added. The ones who asked for Hostile Flare were the ones who could easily beat Deerclops every Winter but didn't get the opportunity to obtain an Eyebrella/Houndius because there were 5 other people on the server that wanted it. I doubt Deerclops is the "hunter" in that scenario. You could also make the same argument for MacTusk, since he's very easy to kill with two Pigmen and a Ham Bat. Kill the Hounds, have the Pigmen aggro on MacTusk to have them take the Blow Darts and chase after him. It isn't about how easy it is to kill them it's the atmosphere they build up or are you gonna tell me deerclops was never and is never a threat to a player at any point in their play experience? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: Timed content is the very definition of artificially limited content Why should I wait for flower salad? Why should I wait till winter when the ice runs out? Why should I wait for winter for deerclops? Why should I wait for spring for moose goose? Why should I wait for summer for antlion? Why should I wait for the second Autumn for bearger? Why should I wait for seasonal fish? Why should I wait for the new moon for the shadow pieces? None of these examples are related to your point about seasonal content being artificially-limited. 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: So your saying all these games that make you do x before you can do y or wait a specific amount of time/progress to a specific point to do something isn't a artificial limitation? For example in legend of Zelda when there's a boulder blocking your path that's not artificial? In Mario when certain powerups on appear on specific levels that's not artificial? Progression = being an artificial limitation? Alright. 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: Shadow creatures being immune and unaffected by most followers isn't artificial difficulty? Certain bosses having panic attacks and aoe attacks to keep you from relying entirely on followers isn't artificial? Being unable to fully cheese bosses with followers is an artificial limitation? Forgetting the fact that this has nothing to do with the subject, alright. 1 hour ago, Mysterious box said: It isn't about how easy it is to kill them it's the atmosphere they build up or are you gonna tell me deerclops was never and is never a threat to a player at any point in their play experience? You're avoiding my point that the Hostile Flare was added for those who won't think he's a major challenge anymore but still need his drops. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 Just now, bloopah said: None of these examples are related to your point about seasonal content being artificially-limited. How? They are seasonal content and they are limited by the season? 1 minute ago, bloopah said: Progression = being an artificial limitation? Alright. Progression needs artificial limitations for you to have that progression take the Zelda example Boulder is your limitation the bomb is your progression. Remove the limitation and there's no progression. 2 minutes ago, bloopah said: You're avoiding my point that the Hostile Flare was added for those who won't think he's a major challenge anymore. No they were added so people could farm eyes for a entire server which is the strongest seasonal protection gear. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoodlemanNed Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 20 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: How? They are seasonal content and they are limited by the season? from what i understand the point of the original suggestion is just to let people obtain walking canes more consistently for groups of players. You can keep the seasonal limitation, and its not handing out canes for free because you still need to kill the same enemy you had fight fight anyways. The problem people have is that you can go through all the artificial limitations of killing mactusk but gain nothing from it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658968 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 5 minutes ago, NoodlemanNed said: from what i understand the point of the original suggestion is just to let people obtain walking canes more consistently for groups of players. You can keep the seasonal limitation, and its not handing out canes for free because you still need to kill the same enemy you had fight fight anyways. The problem people have is that you can go through all the artificial limitations of killing mactusk but gain nothing from it. I mean in a bigger group people should be able to complete sunken chest hunts far faster and those also drop walking canes all year around at a set rate. Heck even if people just want the tusks there's even a chance for them to drop green gems. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 32 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: How? They are seasonal content and they are limited by the season? DId you forget you were talking about the events the moment I replied to you? 32 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Progression needs artificial limitations for you to have that progression take the Zelda example Boulder is your limitation the bomb is your progression. Remove the limitation and there's no progression. That's not an artificial limitation. Having boulders is important for learning to throw bombs. There's no reason for there to not be boulders. And there's also not a singular in-game time where boulders exist in Zelda. 32 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: No they were added so people could farm eyes for a entire server which is the strongest seasonal protection gear. Do you want to constantly run around with an Umbrella in your hand while another dude has the Eyebrella? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658971 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 Just now, bloopah said: DId you forget you were talking about the events the moment I replied to you? Must have been a miscommunication there I wasn't talking about events I was talking about seasons I'm not sure how events entered the conversation. 1 minute ago, bloopah said: That's not an artificial limitation. Having boulders is important for learning to throw bombs. There's no reason for there to not be boulders. That's still artificial there's no reason it has to block your path which is often a key area. 5 minutes ago, bloopah said: Do you want to constantly run around with an Umbrella in your hand while another dude has the Eyebrella? What does that have to do with anything? Besides what's stopping you from using a rain coat? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658973 Share on other sites More sharing options...
bloopah Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: That's still artificial there's no reason it has to block your path which is often a key area. I just listed the reason. 4 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: What does that have to do with anything? Because you sound like you're saying it's bad that everyone gets the privilege of not having to struggle with spring because everyone has an Eyebrella. 3 minutes ago, Mysterious box said: Besides what's stopping you from using a rain coat? Have you ever seen anyone in a pub use the Rain Coat? There are LOTS of better things to take up your body slot, like Backpacks, armor, etc. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658974 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mysterious box Posted August 13, 2023 Share Posted August 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, bloopah said: I just listed the reason. Except games aren't always trying to teach you something in those scenarios. 4 minutes ago, bloopah said: Because you sound like you're saying it's bad that everyone gets the privilege of not having to struggle with spring because everyone has an Eyebrella. But I'm not it was never the point I was trying to make. But if we're using that logic why should any bosses have a cooldown timer at all? Why should one person get the eye mask or shield of terror? How about the bone helm or bone armor? The list goes on. 4 minutes ago, bloopah said: Have you ever seen anyone in a pub use the Rain Coat? There are LOTS of better things to take up your body slot, like Backpacks, armor, etc So? Are you saying because people choose not to take a obvious solution to their handslot problem the game should compensate them? If they're so much better then they shouldn't mind using the umbrella no? Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/150339-hostile-flare-should-spawn-mactusks-even-if-theres-no-alive-family-in-the-world/page/2/#findComment-1658975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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