OG Player review of DST and wilson's rework

[SuperPsiPower]

Hello I'm Psi this is the first topic that i've written in this game's forum in a long time and I've only recently returned to playing frequently. I've been playing this game since it's pre-alpha release in 2014 and have bore witness to all the changes that have been made some good, bad, but also logical. 
 

i'm writing this topic because I want the developers to consider a few changes to the game and I hope when you listen to my reasoning you'll understand

The biggest issue is winter in this game. It is BORING. One of the best parts about winter is farming and killing bosses. Mactusk walruses are a core integral part of the season but triple mactusks are not always present. This is not only frustrating to new players who don't know that they're missing out on a speed boost and a slick tam but it also creates discord because these 2 items are sought after by all 6-12+ players for 2 items that drop 3 days apart at a 25-50% rate per season and that is IF (very rarely) they stay during the winter season. So I strongly believe what Klei needs to focus on right now is more Winter focused content to keep the player enthralled to make them want to stay all winter so that they can enjoy the content they are still unaware of.
 

As far as the reworks go everyone has their own taste as to what their favorite character should have. Wilson's rework is by far the best rework of any of the characters thus far solely because of his beard's new powers. After the rework came out I began to play on public servers again for insight gains and I strongly feel that torch and shadow courier is lacking. Skills that upgrade items with time well spent playing the game should not last less longer than willow's lighter or the same radius as a lantern. Furthermore shadow courier gives a 10% damage reduction to nightmares. Why? I just spent all that time getting past level 12 upgrading to shadow courier to just fight off shadow creatures that I can easily handle without it? Shadow courier would've been useful in the very fight its unlocked in!! Wilson should receive a noticeable 10% buff increase in wielding magic items whether they boost on shadow creatures or not. Otherwise it's a fairly useless ability that I would rather spent unlocking torch perks which arguably aren't that great either. 
 

All in all I think the game is in a really great spot and I think Klei right now needs to prioritize keeping the players in that "spot" with them when the snow starts to fall.

[Reiko24]

He also deals 10% more damage to lunar creatures like Celestial Champion with the Shadow Courier upgrade so not that bad.

[ShadowDuelist]

21 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

The biggest issue is winter in this game. It is BORING. One of the best parts about winter is farming and killing bosses. Mactusk walruses are a core integral part of the season but triple mactusks are not always present. This is not only frustrating to new players who don't know that they're missing out on a speed

Strangely I think winter is the most fun season on the surface (and the worst in caves) and summer is the most boring on the surface (and the best in t he caves) but that’s probably a matter of opinion.

About the mactusk problem, a possible solution is that currently, treasure hunting at the sea has a (tiny) chance of getting you walking canes. Perhaps under certain conditions, that chance could be increased greatly -EG: during spring and summer- players can still get a cane even if they joined late or it’s a crowded world. Tams would remain a mactusk exclusive thing to still keep the walruses relevant.

I didn’t mention Autumn because otherwise people would probably ignore mactusk and go treasure hunting from the start of the game. 

[SuperPsiPower]

I understand what you're saying but when we're talking about the [new] player experience in a dedicated server no one will last past winter. Triple mac spawns simply needed to be added to the map's spawn or increased rate of appearing because  right now there is currently a lack of productive things to do in winter that makes the player want to stay. Right now the game functions in the way that everyone has something to do before winter rolls around [usually character, boss or ruins specific] and to set up a base. When that is done people leave because they see nothing else to do or sit at base and do nothing
 

This isn't a recent problem it's been a recurring problem since the start of public dedicated servers and it's not anyones fault but this is the current problem and we need more winter inclusive content that excites the player and makes them stay. After unlocking 15 insight it was fairly clear to me that this issue is harming/impacting the game as a whole. 
 

Edit: Wilson's rework was focused on building upon his already strong winter survival. This is a good example of changes that impact and reward the long run. 

[PetulantPansy]

I dont think it's a content issue. It's more that winter presents an environmental challenge/nuisance that limits what you can do. So you have to be around stuff you can set on fire or a heat source. This rules out the ocean and the caves unless you have multiple stacks of logs (chopping trees is boring) or a starcaller, which is not something everyone readily has their first winter. Nights are long too and limited visibility at night isn't something anyone really likes per say. So why leave base? It's just mactusk, klaus, and deerclops. Seasoned DST players will still leave for the same reasons they left in autumn, but other players will just sit at base and do nothing.

Imo, it's all because of the seasonal challenge. Also in public worlds, if you played 15 days in autumn, that's 2 hours of straight gaming. Most people take a break at that point anyways. And people like to join fresh worlds, not in the middle of winter, so yes, most the public worlds die in winter but not without reason.

[SuperPsiPower]

4 hours ago, PetulantPansy said:

I dont think it's a content issue. It's more that winter presents an environmental challenge/nuisance that limits what you can do. So you have to be around stuff you can set on fire or a heat source. This rules out the ocean and the caves unless you have multiple stacks of logs (chopping trees is boring) or a starcaller, which is not something everyone readily has their first winter. Nights are long too and limited visibility at night isn't something anyone really likes per say. So why leave base? It's just mactusk, klaus, and deerclops. Seasoned DST players will still leave for the same reasons they left in autumn, but other players will just sit at base and do nothing.

Imo, it's all because of the seasonal challenge. Also in public worlds, if you played 15 days in autumn, that's 2 hours of straight gaming. Most people take a break at that point anyways. And people like to join fresh worlds, not in the middle of winter, so yes, most the public worlds die in winter but not without reason.

People are leaving the game in Winter because there is not enough to do in that season. If lack of seasonal content weren't causing the game problems then I would find servers being inhabitable year round. Winter and Summer isn't even challenging once you have a grasp of how insulation works. Not only that, Klei was generous enough to give starting items to players who join in winter. 2 hours of gaming is a poor excuse to abandon all the work and time that was done at that point why play the game at all if not to just be a huge waste of time? 

 

You also can't say content isn't the issue when Autumn is the only season that is being played. They are missing content because the days are too long and need to be shortened by 1-3 minutes. It sounds like a drastic change but it will help the world progress faster and promote teamwork rather then everyone going off to do their own thing. This is Don't Starve Together not Don't Starve Together Until Winter. Does it make sense to keep joining fresh worlds for the same content over and over again?

and please keep in mind this game was created based on the single player experience; therefore the length of days and seasons have never been touched nor do they reflect the multiplayer value. In Don't Starve days and seasons long because you are expected to have a lot of things done by day 21 by yourself. If days or even seasons were shorter it will encourage players to stay longer. All seasons should be 15 days. I never understood this 21-15-21-15 rule that began in single player. frankly this rule kills the game and will continue to do so if this is not worked on or mentioned. New and returning players will keep playing up until Winter - missing exciting gameplay and challenges simply because there is no "together" after Winter.

[PetulantPansy]

8 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

 2 hours of gaming is a poor excuse to abandon all the work and time that was done at that point why play the game at all if not to just be a huge waste of time? 

This happens anyways on every klei official server
 

8 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

This is Don't Starve Together not Don't Starve Together Until Winter. Does it make sense to keep joining fresh worlds for the same content over and over again?

Doesn't make sense to you and I, but it happens anyways. I see familiar faces when I play on klei official servers and they're typically in autumn. People often play different survivors so there is still a little variety

8 hours ago, SuperPsiPower said:

You also can't say content isn't the issue when Autumn is the only season that is being played.

And what's so special/unique about autumn that winter doesn't have? Only thing I'm aware of is the relaxed/no challenge environment. Everything players do in autumn can still be done in winter in theory. It's just not done anymore because of the environmental challenge presented.

Also, I'm not sure what you want Klei to add. There's just nothing to play for after a while. People dont pursue questlines in public worlds. There's no reason to have chests full of logs/rocks in public worlds. You can collect kelp/ice/banana bushes but why do you even need all this stuff. It's so easy to survive if you are knowledgeable about how the game works. You can fight bosses but it's not like you really need the loot.

So consider this - lots of people play DST to socialize and hang out with friends. Once a server loses its critical mass (call it 5 players), everyone leaves because the social aspect is gone. Also, autumn is popular because it's the easiest season to rush stuff and we also have that part of the player base who just loves to rush/flex on others and then leave after the rush is complete (but not before evicting all the poor piggies).

[Yuuko]

On 3/30/2023 at 8:11 PM, SuperPsiPower said:

This is not only frustrating to new players who don't know that they're missing out on a speed boost and a slick tam but it also creates discord because these 2 items are sought after by all 6-12+ players for 2 items that drop 3 days apart at a 25-50% rate per season and that is IF (very rarely) they stay during the winter season. So I strongly believe what Klei needs to focus on right now is more Winter focused content

There are a few things everyone needs but there aren't enough to go around so... We need to add more different things ?

Interesting conclusion but I can't say I agree.  You state pretty clearly the desirability of these season locked items, wouldn't that mean Winter has plenty of things but that these things just need more access points?  I think of all seasons Winter has the most unique things to do, and is the easiest of all non-autumn seasons to manage.  Cold is just one thing, and as long as you've got that covered you're pretty free to do what you want.  The nights are longer, but you manage that all game.  It taxes a bit heavier in winter but I rarely feel the length of night is really stopping me from doing things.

Granted - I have played for a long time and am familiar with many ways to warm up and provide light for different activities - but for new players the game is still very much a survival game and learning to deal with cold and light are good early challenges they need to learn how to overcome to reach further stages in the game.

I don't think players drop in Winter b/c of it being boring.  I think the pattern in PUBLIC servers is very simple.  Players join an autumn game b/c they want a fresh world they can have an impact on.  They want to explore, unlock, conquer and build.  They don't want to join into a world where all the grass and twigs were relocated to base and the ruins were already hit.  They're not bored b/c of winter, they're bored because they aren't there for long term projects.  I'm sure these players go through Winter many times over on private worlds they are invested in, and if pub worlds started Winter they would still get players.

I know that when *I* play pub worlds I'm usually looking at 1-3 hours of fun and I'm done.  I don't expect to come back later, usually I join with a specific goal in mind like rushing bqueen, ruins, taming a beef, growing giant crops, w/e - and once I've completed this I log out.  Hand that freshly tamed beef to another player and bounce.  Leave those giant crops rotting in the field.  Eat the royal jelly raw and suicide with the crown into the tentacle trap.  I am not leaving b/c Winter sucks, I'm leaving b/c I'm out of time and am not considering returning.

As for Wilson's rework

I really like Wilson's rework as well, and I never touch the beard tree.  I really love the torch tree though!  Having torches with the radius of an 80% lantern all the time is great, and tossing them to the ground is really enabling.  The resources are just grass and twigs, 2 easy things to find early and stockpile late and unlike lightbulbs they don't go bad.  I've actually been moving away from lanterns more lately as moggles, magi, and torch throwing really cover the bases for me.  It might not be your thing, but its definitely a thing and a thing that I've been enjoying.

[MondayNight]

Interesting how one can deduce who has the most (unmoderated - aka greatest server numbers out there, in general dedicated server populace) pub-play experiences just by reading recurrent snippets of comments from above: I reckon Petulant plays Survival public servers (akin KLei's official) quite a lot, while Shosuko dwells in them from time to time, but still in significant sample-size to get the proverbial gist of them. Meanwhile OP has little pub experiences, or anyway not in sufficient quantities to grasp the general mentality in those servers, of why people play them and how. And that's, for bulk player-base (newbies, noobs & casuals), mainly socialization & social interactions. Rushers also go in these pubs for various punctual runs (as Shosuko pointed: be it Boss rushes, certain location rushes - Ruins, Moon Archipelago, Pearl Island, Moon Quay/"Monke Isle", diverse activities akin farming or fishing, etc), yet they're in for limited time knowing it from start. Survival Pubs are fleeting entertainment, players inhabit them with such mentality and no amount of mid-to-late game content would change that. Not mentioning, again, Winter actually has plenty attractions (MacT, DC, Klaus - first 2 made more available via Hostile Flare mechanic, Ice gathering) but also added ambient/seasonal challenges (freezing mechanic, longer nights, snowy/white obstruction visuals). If seasons would be shortened, I still believe bulk players would leave when Winter hits: "social butterflies" don't fancy harder background, given food and broad wellbeing maintenance are still big issues for them even in Autumn. If you want higher pub player-retention, OP, perhaps advertise Endless game-play, where reviving is made easier via Spawn Portal & server won't reset when all players die. As for speed-related loot perks like Walking Cane allegedly not being in sufficient quantities so all people on server can have them 1st Winter - there are alternatives in Thulecite Club (10% speed bon) and Magiluminescence (20% speed). But bottom-line from game's perspective: is still a Survival-oriented one where people need to deal with scarcity - adapting and bending around it is something players need to understand and internalize, as opposed to "immediate gratification" mentality. That or lobby KLei into designing some new 1st Autumn (or Spring?) mob & loot related to speed-perks similar to Ham's Stalking Stick (hand-slot temporary/consumable item for 30% faster movement) or SW's Sleek Hat (head-dress for 25% faster movement). Btw: alternatively, Walking Canes can be "fished out" with Sunken Chests (10% chance).