My controversial balance preferences for maxwell

[edulopes]

And Farming nigthmare fuel as wanda os só easy that isnt Fun, you can hold F until an terrobeak spawn

No you cant do It in under 7 minutes with that gear, How many hours of dont starve do You have?

 

[Copyafriend]

1 minute ago, edulopes said:

And Farming nigthmare fuel as wanda os só easy that isnt Fun, you can hold F until an terrobeak spawn

No you cant do It in under 7 minutes with that gear, How many hours of dont starve do You have?

 

Over 2k between solo and together.

and no i probably cant do all three, i can do dragonfly and klaus probably though. The alarming clock doesnt have much better dps than the dark sword, which is only an edge above the hambat. And i definitely can kill dragonfly fast as **** with a hambat and football helms as wolfgang, and klaus is just as easy

[edulopes]

2 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

Yeah if you get the best armor in the game with one of the highest dps characters with a skilled player they’ll make it look easy.

i can do the same thing with wolfgang a hambat and football helmets. 

well maybe not bee queen im not great at her.

 

my point is you’re comparing someone who is probably amazing at the game who is probably speedrunning it with endgame gear, and comparing it to maxwell who spawns with enough shadow fuel to kill dragonfly day 1 without even helping

An armor that IS easy to Farm, and dragonfly can only bê killer that easly because she is Broken against Maxwell wall

[Copyafriend]

Just now, edulopes said:

An armor that IS easy to Farm, and dragonfly can only bê killer that easly because she is Broken against Maxwell wall

No i was talking about without the wall. Dragonfly is a single target boss, she can only hit one of SIX shadows at a time, it’s actually even easier than deerclops. But i would need a pan flute though. 
 

then again ive done dragonfly hitless with wolfgang before, shes not that hard, its the point of the matter

[edulopes]

The Op part of the alarming click is his range, and the duelists are the price you pay for the Lesser health, you arent needed tô play wanda almost dead, you do that to do Max damage, coices my friend

[Copyafriend]

2 minutes ago, edulopes said:

The Op part of the alarming click is his range, and the duelists are the price you pay for the Lesser health, you arent needed tô play wanda almost dead, you do that to do Max damage, coices my friend

Yeah no. With maxwells shadows he could literally walk away from the fight, he doesnt need to be in melee range at all.

[edulopes]

Wolf was And is still one of the top dogs because of his damage, because faster Boss figths makes less Room for error, Wolfgang dont have any downside If you know how tô mantain high sanity Just dont ler he ver wimpy

Maxwell have the life problem but no damage tô compensate, making him useless in Boss figths

Even Wilson is better If the duelists get nerfed

An fact is Maxwell even in his state he sinto better than wanda Wolf wicker wig and wurt and some more caracterd

[dois raios]

33 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

But those arent the same situations. Wanda specifically needs careful health management to survive and deal high damage, maxwell just clicks a button repeatedly. Wanda is inherently interesting and maxwell is inherently boring.

isnt the exactly opposite of what you wrote? Wanda just click a button and teleport around the world (every single day you can teleport again for no cost), can dodge any attack with a click (how many times you want for free), can destroy any enemy because of high dps, and if you have night armor, you dont need to worry about dying since you have infinite free heal.

 

but you are right, Maxwell shouldnt be able to kill bosses using his powers, he must equip armor, equip weapons,  have 30 pierogies and kill each boss as a wilson but with 75hp, this is true fun, those characters that promote a different way to play the the game are kinda boring.

[Copyafriend]

Just now, dois raios said:

isnt the exactly opposite of what you wrote? Wanda just click a button and teleport around the world (every single day you can teleport again for no cost), can dodge any attack with a click (how many times you want for free), can destroy any enemy because of high dps, and if you have night armor, you dont need to worry about dying since you have infinite free heal.

 

but you are right, Maxwell shouldnt be able to kill bosses using his powers, he must equip armor, equip weapons,  have 30 pierogies and kill each boss as a wilson but with 75hp, this is true fun, those characters that promote a different way to play the the game are kinda boring.

Wanda has to ACTIVELY engage in the fight. Thats the whole difference.

yes, she has a mechanic to solve every problem, yeah shes really strong. To be honest the “infinite heals” she have kind of suck though, it’s honestly either use marble/night armor or die if you actually want to do max damage. 
 

you do realize wanda has 20 health she can spare in old age right? Like 2 hits as bearger with a thulecite crown kills her. 4 with shadow armor, she instantly dies if she only has a football helmet. She is FRAGILE, she makes maxwell look like wx with all life mods. They always wear nightmare armor because any other armor ends with her DEAD.

 

christ ya’ll watch a streamer no hit a boss and claim wandas op not realizing that they were nearly dead and constantly losing health the WHOLE TIME. Playing as wanda isnt that ******* easy. Shes really strong but she isnt a win button like ya’ll are acting like she is. I almost never play her because im just not that careful.
 

maxwell can literally stand away from the boss, lock them down with a spell, and summon 6 minions who kill it FOR HIM.

he isnt 4 hits from death, hes got nightmare armor too, he’s 15 hits from death and can heal without losing dps, not to mention he doesnt have to participate.

And if he does want to participate its like he’s got a whole second character helping, those shadows do some serious damage. Weird how they’re practically ******* free.

 

 

5 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

If you feel the need to cite another character as too strong to compare him too, just dont. It doesnt add anything to the conversation.

And now I am done talking about wanda.

[MondayNight]

What I personally saw until now regarding "pseudo-afk solo take-down of bosses" were videos that seem to employ God-Mode or SuperGod-Mode - case in point: AG - player was sitting comfy 2 tiles away from it and didn't attack, letting Max summon casually his Duelists; normally, even getting 1 tile away from his pillar arena (not AG) insta-aggroes the behemoth. Even more, while being insane, nothing spawned all run; normally, reaching 0 Sanity, pops almost instantly at least 1 Terrorbeak. So factor constant Shadows fight too when spamming Duelists vs whatever boss one might go against. At which point, indeed, a competent Max can trap them with pillars, juggling between shadow monsters & tackled boss, efficiently, and prevail. But that's the key words: competent and efficient. I stated this before, Max's character re-balance, like all previous refreshes, is geared towards bulk player-base, not solely efficient and competent advanced people. Try getting a casual Max to pull-off the "pseudo-afk Duelists fight" DC strat while being insane and see how well it will go. I'm not writing current Max is in an ideal place as balance goes, but what nerfs you propose, OP, will pretty much relegate Max to a niche role in general, one swaps to clean a forest, then swap back to a Wanda or Wortox that can tp all over map, or a Wolf that destroys with little penalty via 2x dmg anything - or Wig, the get-go on high-latency pubs. Either the character is competitive with high pick-rates (ideals for player-base) or ends as another Warly or Wurt, at preferences bottom list - that's the ultimate truth of it all.

[Copyafriend]

6 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

What I personally saw until now regarding "pseudo-afk solo take-down of bosses" were videos that seem to employ God-Mode or SuperGod-Mode - case in point: AG - player was sitting comfy 2 tiles away from it and didn't attack, letting Max summon casually his Duelists; normally, even getting 1 tile away from his pillar arena (not AG) insta-aggroes the behemoth. Even more, while being insane, nothing spawned all run; normally, reaching 0 Sanity, pops almost instantly at least 1 Terrorbeak. So factor constant Shadows fight too when spamming Duelists vs whatever boss one might go against. At which point, indeed, a competent Max can trap them with pillars, juggling between shadow monsters & tackled boss, efficiently, and prevail. But that's the key words: competent and efficient. I stated this before, Max's character re-balance, like all previous refreshes, is geared towards bulk player-base, not solely efficient and competent advanced people. Try getting a casual Max to pull-off the "pseudo-afk Duelists fight" DC strat while being insane and see how well it will go. I'm not writing current Max is in an ideal place as balance goes, but what nerfs you propose, OP, will pretty much relegate Max to a niche role in general, one swaps to clean a forest, then swap back to a Wanda or Wortox that can tp all over map, or a Wolf that destroys with little penalty via 2x dmg anything - or Wig, the get-go on high-latency pubs. Either the character is competitive with high pick-rates (ideals for player-base) or ends as another Warly or Wurt, at preferences bottom list - that's the ultimate truth of it all.

 

But it isnt "the ultimate truth of it all"

there isnt some ultimate truth its all objective as to what you prefer strongest doesnt mean most pick, almost no one picks wanda. but shes one of the strongest. Wolfgang is 4th most picked according to the infographic IM looking at (public servers admittedly but we cant access that information for private servers) (wendy wigfrid wilson THEN wolfgang)

Do you know who is third? WILSON. The most sugarless vanilla character in the roster.

Don't act like "Either its OP or its unpicked", thats just flat out untrue.

And I pulled off a "pseudo-afk" duelist fight against deerclops by spawning him in day 1, no shadows spawned at all until he was literally already dead. additionally shadows are PRETTY weak. If you just focus on clearing them you'll have plenty of time between their spawns to renew your duelists or whatever.

Balance, is ALSO subjective. At the end of the day they CAN make the duelists OP, and ignore me completely. BUT. I really hope they dont.

Because jee-zus they are really WAY stronger than what they should be, considering they cost a FIFTH of a nightmare fuel each.

 

[dois raios]

Maxwell is so broken, he can heal from food, he survives 3 hits from a boss, he has to manage sanity, cast spells while terrorbeaks are chasing him, dont get hit by bosses and its minions, recast his duelists after some minutes. And if he want to avoid these problems, he needs lots of sanity food and have to pay attention to do not spawn 6 duelists at the same time, and there is no way to solve the problem about bosses from aggroing on you, because bosses prioritizes players upon other entities, so broken op this character, I hope klei nerf him to a point he will not compete with wolfgang and wanda anymore.

[Trevindo]

41 minutes ago, dois raios said:

isnt the exactly opposite of what you wrote? Wanda just click a button and teleport around the world (every single day you can teleport again for no cost), can dodge any attack with a click (how many times you want for free), can destroy any enemy because of high dps, and if you have night armor, you dont need to worry about dying since you have infinite free heal.

 

but you are right, Maxwell shouldnt be able to kill bosses using his powers, he must equip armor, equip weapons,  have 30 pierogies and kill each boss as a wilson but with 75hp, this is true fun, those characters that promote a different way to play the the game are kinda boring.

If we go by your logic, we can give a character a glass rod that deals infinite damage to bosses. Since the balance between the ways of performing in a world doesn't matter, we can create a module for the Wx-78 that makes it immune to all kinds of damage, all in favor of fun.

2 minutes ago, dois raios said:

Maxwell is so broken, he can heal from food, he survives 3 hits from a boss, he has to manage sanity, cast spells while terrorbeaks are chasing him, dont get hit by bosses and its minions, recast his duelists after some minutes. And if he want to avoid these problems, he needs lots of sanity food and have to pay attention to do not spawn 6 duelists at the same time, and there is no way to solve the problem about bosses from aggroing on you, because bosses prioritizes players upon other entities, so broken op this character, I hope klei nerf him to a point he will not compete with wolfgang and wanda anymore.

You look like a yuumi player (LOL) trying to explain how complex it is to play without pressing a mouse

[dois raios]

3 minutes ago, Trevindo said:

If we go by your logic, we can give a character a glass rod that deals infinite damage to bosses. Since the balance between the ways of performing in a world doesn't matter, we can create a module for the Wx-78 that makes it immune to all kinds of damage, all in favor of fun.

I cant see how maxwell being almost near the power that wanda and wolfgang (he is still weaker than both), is compared to a rod that deals infinite damage to bosses. whats is the point of attacking a character being overpowered, when there are two other characters that are way more broken.

So i dont agree with you, because i like so much wanda and wolfgang, if I agreed with you, I would be saying that wolf and wanda should be nerfed or removed. I think these two are very fun to play.

note: other characters are fun in my view, my opinion about fun is not related to being op (but all op characters are fun for me, but not all my favorite characters are op), i hope i made it clear.

[MondayNight]

5 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

But it isnt "the ultimate truth of it all"

there isnt some ultimate truth its all objective as to what you prefer strongest doesnt mean most pick, almost no one picks wanda. but shes one of the strongest. Wolfgang is 4th most picked according to the infographic IM looking at (public servers admittedly but we cant access that information for private servers) (wendy wigfrid wilson THEN wolfgang)

Do you know who is third? WILSON. The most sugarless vanilla character in the roster.

Don't act like "Either its OP or its unpicked", thats just flat out untrue.

And I pulled off a "pseudo-afk" duelist fight against deerclops by spawning him in day 1, no shadows spawned at all until he was literally already dead. additionally shadows are PRETTY weak. If you just focus on clearing them you'll have plenty of time between their spawns to renew your duelists or whatever.

Balance, is ALSO subjective. At the end of the day they CAN make the duelists OP, and ignore me completely. BUT. I really hope they dont.

Because jee-zus they are really WAY stronger than what they should be, considering they cost a FIFTH of a nightmare fuel each.

 

Certainly there are objective truths. For DST's pick-rates those are: vast majority of players don't do bosses, raid-bosses even less. Most bulk player-base people are casuals very bad at combat to the point of trying to avoid it as much as possible/altogether. Likewise, a big chunk of casuals picks default option presented: hence 3rd place Wilson. Most go with Wendy & Wigfrid precisely because these characters offer higher survivability in DST's hectic world (from their pov, after playing sufficiently to realize Wilson may not cut it on long-run). Wolfgang comes 4th because people realize at some point, combat & risk-wise, he's pretty much the optimal choice. Wanda on the other hand, for bulk player-base, still remains iffy, in starting game being pretty weak (no healing options aside that 1 clock she spawns with), and is a "pay-to-get" character (prohibitive factor); she may shine in the hands of advanced experienced players, but for bulk player-base is just a drag to fiddle with. Then look at bottom of pickings list: Wurt, Warly, Wes. They are highly specialized to the point of disregard (and only shine in later-game, sans Wes - the "harder game-play" version) when one can pick some well-rounded survivalist on the safe-side like aforementioned Wendy/Wigfrid/Wolfgang. I'm not underlining the fun-from-variety factor for experienced players here, to account for "mains", even if, compared to first 3 places pick-rates (excluding Wilson), they are sub-par as generalists or combat-oriented (combat playing a big part). Max for now is a good gatherer, but that's, certainly, it & niche. Why not having him be a lot more?! Frankly I for one am tired to see pubs full of Wendies, Wigfrieds (and Wilsons). And when a Max pops, either dies in days, then quits, or does gathering, then swaps to Wolfgang/Wanda/Wortox - or, still, Wendy/Wig (Endless dedicated servers). With your proposed nerfs presented (Max's) situation will remain unchanged.

As for your tests, you're one of the advanced efficient players, probably a "veteran" with many irl years of DS/T entertainment under proverbial belt: you can pull it off, even if fighting multiple Shadows (going insane in pubs aggroes all others'/almost-insane people's shadow monsters), probably - lag accounted. The same cannot be said for bulk player-base - and again: this character refresh, like all the other, is for all players to enjoy and not feel underwhelmed by (as current non-Beta Max stands).

[Copyafriend]

3 minutes ago, x0-VERSUS-1y said:

Certainly there are objective truths.

As for your tests, you're one of the advanced efficient players, probably a "veteran" with many irl years of DS/T entertainment under proverbial belt. You can pull it off, even if fighting multiple Shadows (going insane in pubs aggroes all others'/almost-insane people's shadow monsters), probably - lag accounted. The same cannot be said for bulk player-base - and again: this character refresh, like all the other, is for all players to enjoy and not feel underwhelmed by (as current non-Beta Max stands).

Objectivity is a falsehood when it comes to playerbases. all i'll say is that if you think something is DEFINITELY true, its probably about half true. Remember its all PUBLICs that were looked at, most servers are private. Combat characters are focused on because they can typically "get stuff done" (Kill bosses) in the short time period "allowed" by public servers. You're looking at 20-30 days before you have to do something else unless you TRULY have nothing else to do and have your whole day dedicated to this one server.

And no. Another falsehood is believing every character should be for every player. This typically leads to characters feeling bland and unspecialized. maxwell is one of the best gatherers, this is a fairly accepted fact. unless playing with friends, almost no one wants to be a gatherer, because they'll never get to build what they're gathering for. Or at least this is what I assume the general consensus is for maxwell players who might sometimes play on public servers. I certainly dont tend to go on public servers as wormwood and just start farming, even though its his best early game use. and early game is all im going to see.

 

CURRENT maxwell is so far behind even PREBUFF maxwell its not even funny.

TWO DUELISTS, each costing 2 nightmare fuel AND a spear. Compared to six duelists costing 1.4 fuel. literally a third of the price for three times the number of duelists. 

They didnt need to also become TANKIER THAN ABIGAIL. and also DEAL 40 DAMAGE A LUNGE.

Bit much is an understatement IMHO. Because it really is an opinion.

 

[abrocator]

4 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

the summon. Cant be. all that needs to happen.

Unless it turns tactical where i manage my resources and create a specific team and buff them, etc etc. 

Then maybe the fighter summon (the shadow fighter) shouldn’t be so straightforward. Maybe they should just ditch the melee fighter altogether in favor of a new book (new wheel) with a range of support fighters: ranged fighter (like Walter) with 1HP, aura fighter (like Wigfrid… but without the fighting), healer, etc. I don’t know, but something that would require you to both complement an existing fight (not just summon fighters and then you and your team AFK) and think about different team compositions (a big enemy requires one particular strategy: a horde of enemies require another).

[Gi-Go]

2 hours ago, Copyafriend said:

Wanda has to ACTIVELY engage in the fight. Thats the whole difference.

yes, she has a mechanic to solve every problem, yeah shes really strong. To be honest the “infinite heals” she have kind of suck though, it’s honestly either use marble/night armor or die if you actually want to do max damage. 
 

you do realize wanda has 20 health she can spare in old age right? Like 2 hits as bearger with a thulecite crown kills her. 4 with shadow armor, she instantly dies if she only has a football helmet. She is FRAGILE, she makes maxwell look like wx with all life mods. They always wear nightmare armor because any other armor ends with her DEAD.

 

christ ya’ll watch a streamer no hit a boss and claim wandas op not realizing that they were nearly dead and constantly losing health the WHOLE TIME. Playing as wanda isnt that ******* easy. Shes really strong but she isnt a win button like ya’ll are acting like she is. I almost never play her because im just not that careful.

You have no clue what you are talking about. Wanda can tank 7 hits in her old form from bearger. 4 more for each heal she uses. 3 nightmare armors and 3 heal clocks and you can zero efford dragonfly tank. 2 snurtle shells and no damage taken. 

[Kappachinos296]

I think the duelists should be part of Maxwell's dps instead of being an excuse to sit back and do nothing until you need to summon more. Giving Maxwell a mechanic to interact with the shadow duelists during the fight would be nice too, in order to bring some form of skill expression to the table.