Krampus - Additional Threat & Farming Plot change

[GenHavok]

---Krampus additonal threat ---Not starving in the game seems fairly easy at the point in which the game is at currently.Krampus I think seems like too easy a threat to completely avoid any encounters with.So I suggest giving him a 2ndary role.Krampus has that big bag and likes to steal,but what about liking to eat? Krampus could have a random encounter every few days where if your in your camp he comes to raid your fridge/chests for food. How much of your stored food he takes would be different each time the encounter happens.--- Jackelope Change &Farming Plot change---Now to settle up on how to make farms a bit more of a challenge I think jackelops should have a certain time of the day every few days when they get into a frenzy.During this frenzy they will attempt to eat you crops if they happen to be near your camp and you are not near them. Crops should turn to rot after a prolonged period of time of not being picked.The time it takes for them to rot should be far longer than if they were not picked.

[mobius187]

Not starving in the game seems fairly easy at the point in which the game is at currently.Krampus I think seems like too easy a threat to completely avoid any encounters with.So I suggest giving him a 2ndary role.Krampus has that big bag and likes to steal,but what about liking to eat? Krampus could have a random encounter every few days where if your in your camp he comes to raid your fridge/chests for food. How much of your stored food he takes would be different each time the encounter happens.

The Krampus was introduced when food could be hoarded because it never rotted. Now that food rots it's impossible to keep dozens of stack of food anymore and the purpose of the Krampus should be adjusted accordingly, IMHO.As I've suggested in other threads the Krampus should focus on his original purpose, punishing the player when they're evil. To this end, I think the number of "naughty points" needed before summoning the Krampus should be lowered. Second, what defines "naughty" should be revised, as I feel naughty actions should be limited to: killing pig men, killing smallbirds, killing baby beefalo, robbing graves, and maybe burning down forests (15+ trees) and killing treeguards. Third, unnerf the Krampus' attack power to make him dangerous again in melee combat, while also removing his weakness to the blow dart/reed pipes (i.e. sleep).From here I suggested the Krampus should be given the ability to teleport, so he can bypass walls and attack you directly. The goal would be to either defeat or flee from the Krampus, or upon getting knocked down to 25% or less Health, the Krampus traps you in his bag, teleports you far from your nearest camp site (or a hidden part of the island map) and dumps you out... leaving you on your own to find your way back home.

Now to settle up on how to make farms a bit more of a challenge I think jackelops should have a certain time of the day every few days when they get into a frenzy.During this frenzy they will attempt to eat you crops if they happen to be near your camp and you are not near them.

In the past I've suggested that farming was too easy, and one way to make it more difficult would be to allow birds to eat seeds you planted in the farm plot, and then after it grows to its next stage rabbits would try and eat it. The only way to protect your crops, short of not planting them near rabbit holes, would be to build walls, scare off rabbits/birds in person, or build a scarecrow (new placeable).

Crops should turn to rot after a prolonged period of time of not being picked.The time it takes for them to rot should be far longer than if they were not picked.

Sure, why not?

[GenHavok]

The Krampus was introduced when food could be hoarded because it never rotted. Now that food rots it's impossible to keep dozens of stack of food anymore and the purpose of the Krampus should be adjusted accordingly, IMHO

Krampus was introduced more so because of how much morsels you could get from the jakelope not food in general otherwise why would he only attack for killing animals? This did not solve the food hoarding problem nor has food rot.Its rather easy to hoard food. All you do is make your farms (which oddly you mention how easy it is at the bottom yet say its impossible to have food stacks thanks to food rot.Use speed lots, kill the abundance of Beefalo. Store the raw food in the fridge,when it gets to about 60-75% food spoilage you just cook some keep it separate from the main spoilage pile.I have had stacks of food already by doing this also with the abundance of spiders you get tons of monster meat and use honey/flowers to balance the negative health effects. Having a large enough berry farm also still makes it easy to hoard as well as mass killing rabbits.I never have to worry about food even without a fridge.

As I've suggested in other threads the Krampus should focus on his original purpose, punishing the player when they're evil.

Problem with this is its easy to bypass killing animals.I have found many different ways to have the animals killed without me needing to do the work myself and I just pick up the meat.Also I do not even bother to hunt Jakelopes because roasted veggies fill you up far more than the meat from a Jakelope.Granted some of the cooking recipes that use the meat are worth it a tad bit.

From here I suggested the Krampus should be given the ability to teleport, so he can bypass walls and attack you directly. The goal would be to either defeat or flee from the Krampus, or upon getting knocked down to 25% or less Health, the Krampus traps you in his bag, teleports you far from your nearest camp site (or a hidden part of the island map) and dumps you out... leaving you on your own to find your way back home.

Dear god no!. Teleporting is a horrid idea in my opinion for this game. If you have played a game called Torch Light 2 you will know what I mean. Being forced to fight or flee from him I am not a fan of, I prefer having open ended means of dealing with all the mobs.I like the idea of him catching you perhaps something he can do after he has raided your stuff and your lingering around your camp and could not run far enough away from him.I still prefer my idea of having him have the addition of raiding your food. Many ways exist to bypass killing the animals yourself and since that's the only way to trigger him it makes him not a threat.I have never had Krampus appear on me even once after figuring ways to do it. Edited February 23, 2013 by GenHavok

[mobius187]

Krampus was introduced more so because of how much morsels you could get from the jakelope not food in general otherwise why would he only attack for killing animals?

One reason is because the Devs had already introduced the Gobbler, as you see back in the early days players such as myself survived on two foods: meat morsels (from rabbits/jackalopes) and berries. So the Devs added the Gobbler to prevent players from collecting too many berries, along with berry bush fatigue. Once they had addressed that food source, which was being abused to not end, they moved on to the rabbits. They added in the scared/scatter AI logic (when you killed a rabbit within sight of other rabbits) and then the Krampus. However the Krampus was there to deal with more than just the excess meat morsels and berries, as players have diversified and were now "speed growing" crops with manure and just hoarding that too.

This did not solve the food hoarding problem nor has food rot.Its rather easy to hoard food.

Well it's an ongoing process. If you think the food hoarding situation is bad now you should have seen it back in November. Food was NEVER my concern... I mean NEVER. I had so much I literally started throwing it away, ignoring berry bushes, and my dozen or so farm plots. The Devs have been working to address those issues ever since and I think they're on the right track with "rot".

All you do is make your farms (which oddly you mention how easy it is at the bottom yet say its impossible to have food stacks thanks to food rot.

I do? I don't recall talking about food stacks... however as we discussed, the farm plot needs to be nerfed. In the past I've made several suggestions, such as either eliminating manure from speeding-up crop growth to making the whole crop-growing process more hands on, similar to the farming mod in Project Zomboid (i.e. crops have growth stages, during which you need to tend to the crops with plant food and water to help them grow to the next stage). Not to mention having crops rot eventually after they've matured, should you just leave them.

Use speed lots, kill the abundance of Beefalo.

Yes, that's an issue. I believe the Devs still need to create a more accurate life cycle for the beefalo. For example, what do the beefalo eat? Grass... but never the grass from grass tufts. That's what they should eat. Then to some degree the beefalo would be competing with the player for resources. Not to mention any beefalo that didn't eat grass (i.e. from a grass tuft) should starve and die, thus ensuring population control. Other than that, obviously baby beefalo need to mature into adult beefalo.

Not to mention the beefalo have no natural predator. To this end it was suggested hounds should spawn to attack beefalo and not just the player.

Store the raw food in the fridge,when it gets to about 60-75% food spoilage you just cook some keep it separate from the main spoilage pile.I have had stacks of food already by doing this

Fair enough. I always knew the "stacking freshness" would be an issue, however the Devs opted to go with that option over a more complicated solution, namely the one used in Project Zomboid (every food item has its own freshness counter). Of course, and somewhat ironically, it's much harder to gather food in PZ, so the game and you don't have to track too much food at once.

also with the abundance of spiders you get tons of monster meat and use honey/flowers to balance the negative health effects.

Yet another complaint by me (I complain often...), as I've always backed the suggestion that monster meat should always be harmful, even after you've cooked it, and it should never be a replacement for other meats in a recipe.

Having a large enough berry farm also still makes it easy to hoard as well as mass killing rabbits.I never have to worry about food even without a fridge.

Well those are all good points, based on the current state of the game.

Problem with this is its easy to bypass killing animals.I have found many different ways to have the animals killed without me needing to do the work myself and I just pick up the meat.Also I do not even bother to hunt Jakelopes because roasted veggies fill you up far more than the meat from a Jakelope.Granted some of the cooking recipes that use the meat are worth it a tad bit.

I'm sorry, what does this have to do with the Krampus focusing on punishing the player for being naughty? As I stated below, IMHO, killing rabbits and birds shouldn't even be registered as a naughty action, it's just basic survival of the fitest. You're not trying to be evil.

Dear god no! Teleporting is a horrid idea in my opinion for this game.

A bit extreme... but you're entitled to your opinion.

If you have played a game called Torch Light 2 you will know what I mean.

I have, and it never bothered me. In fact, I played the grandfathers of annoying teleport monsters, Doom and Half-Life. Yeah, they popped in when you least expected it, but you just dealt with it. And in this case I'm not asking for every enemy to teleport, just the Krampus... and only then after you've been very naughty.

Being forced to fight or flee from him I am not a fan of, I prefer having open ended means of dealing with all the mobs.

Well fleeing from him is just one option. You could try killing him too. All I suggested was that his two main weaknesses (sleep/low attack power) be removed/undone. The teleporting was due to walls, as the AI pathfinding still has issues with walls and I'm sure players could come up with some creative ways to try and avoid the Krampus otherwise (not to mention traps).

Of course another option is to have him initially pop-in (via his bag) very near to the player and then never teleport again until either the Krampus is defeated or the player has been (well, kidnapped).

I like the idea of him catching you perhaps something he can do after he has raided your stuff and your lingering around your camp and could not run far enough away from him.

Sure, that's an option. Let's work together and come up with as many suggestions as possible.

I still prefer my idea of having him have the addition of raiding your food. Many ways exist to bypass killing the animals yourself and since that's the only way to trigger him it makes him not a threat.I have never had Krampus appear on me even once after figuring ways to do it.

Fair enough, but then isn't that another issue that needs to be addressed? How do we get the Krampus to appear? You suggested it be a random encounter, but I always liked the fact that the Krampus appeared to punish you for being naughty. I'm still of the opinion that lowering the requirements and focusing what causes naughtiness is another solution.

Of course then it comes down to whether the Krampus is meant to punish naughty players or be a means to reduce player food supplies. To your request I would actually suggest that a new creature should be added to the game to perform food stealing. What creature? Hmmm. In the past players have suggested giant insects, like flies, which are attracted to rotting foods or predators, like the hounds.