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maxiaogua

Post-Tournament Discussion: Strats and Suggestions

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maxiaogua    86

The Gorge Tournament has finally ended yesterday. Our team managed to get a 4rd postion/silver prize with 6797 score.

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Since it is already over, I feel like it's about time to openly talk about our strats for anyone who still have interests in these "top scerets", and our suggestions/thoughts about future tournament.

Our strat is actually pretty simple, the first 4 meals are the same as a normal speedrun.

Quote

 

R1, Stone Soup

R2, Potato Soup

R3, Fish Stew / Meatball

R4, Fist Full of Jam

 

So the first RNG factor gets involved with Round 2. If we get R2 Bread, we just restart the game.

Surely, you can buy a grill and makes Sliders, but due to Snack Penality, you'll get less coins than a R2 Veggie thus delays your game plan.

 

The second RNG factor is, if we get R5 Snack, it's also better to restart the game.

The reason is that when you get R5 Snack, then R6 must be Fish.

Quote

R5->R6

Snack->Fish

Veggie->Meat

Soup->Bread

Creamy Fish takes a hell lot of time to cook, and you will have to make Crab Ravioli with R7 Pasta. Because fast run requires 2 extra red marks for buying slaughtering tool/crab trap after R8, in order to ger your team start cooking multiple station at the same time.

Problem is, both R6 Fish and R7 Pasta requires silver plates and only one safebox with large oven dish got 2 silvers plates. Now you have two choice:

1, Wait for your second safebox;

2, Serve one of the meal without silver plate.

Both way you'll lose some score. To make matter worse, when you get the first fish craving in R6, you gains the possiblity to meet more than 2 fish in your run. Since we only got 1 fish meal that gives Gnaw's Favor, this will generally result a lower score.

We have tried multiple R5 Snack games but our best score for R5 Snack is around 5500, while we can pass 6000 easily with R5 Veggie/Soup, or 6500+ with some good luck.

So,

Quote

 

R5 Veggie->R6 Meat

Tomato Soup (bowl)->Steak Frites (unplated)

 

R5 Soup->R6 Bread

Meat Stew (bowl)->Crab Roll (unplated)

R5 Soup is the best craving, you make Meat Stew to get a extra sapphire medalion, plus a extra sapphire from R6 Bread. However, our best score is R5 Veggie.

Also we like to serve R6 with no silver plate cause it will gives you 2 Red Marks instead of 1 GF 1RM. You lose a acceptable score but you can start cooking multiple stations to save some time.

Quote

R7 Pasta

Crab Ravioli (plated)

 

R8 Dessert

Scone (plate it if you got two plates from the 1st safebox, otherwise serve it directly)

After R8, we got 2 oven, 1 cookpot and 1 large grill station.

The main chef (normally Wes) cooks cookpot/large grill meals, while the other farmer Winona cooks 2 meat meals and 2 desserts with oven once he finishes his farming work. The garther/logger Waxwell can do some cooking occasionally with free stations when he has time.

But it became a complete RNG game from then on.

 

First, more than 2 Fish craving rounds will result a low score. 2 Fish rounds is acceptable, you make 1 Poached Fish (unplated, 2S) and 1 Creamy Fish (plated, 1GF 1RM).

The reason to serve Poached Fish unplated is that you're likely to lack silver plates in late game. You should always make 1 dish that worth 2S and serve it unplated, and Poached Fish for fish cravings is your best choice to gain extra plates.

Also, if you got no Fish craving round, you will also be in trouble. This means you will likely run out of Pasta in R19, and even before that, you can run out of Snack/Cheese/Bread or maybe silver plates.

 

Second, more than 3 Soup rounds will also result a low score. We've only got 2 Soups that gives GF, 3 Soups is only acceptable when you get R5 soup. Certainly, you can use 1 Soup to gain extra sapphires like we did with Poached Fish, but in this case you should only get 1 fish round and only serve Creamy Fish.

Again, if you got no soup rounds after R8, you're also likely be in trouble. Same reason with Fish.

Or put it more simple, 1<= Fish <=2, 1=< Soup <=3, and Fish + Soup <= 4.  

But we even got goddamn games that have 4 Soups or 4 Fishes alone!

 

Last, but certainly not least, you always are at the risk running out of a specific meal and silver plates. The chances of running out Snack/Bread/Cheese cravings are lower than Fish/Soup, but it is still some RNG based.

We once got a 4 bread game before, and due to the fact that we served Scone as Dessert (as it always should be) and Cheeseburger as Cheese, there were only 3 Breads left that gives GF.

All these RNG factors can ruin a good game.

 

Here's the meal summary for our 6797 run.

Quote

1, Stone Soup (Snack)
2, Potato Soup (Veggie)
3, Fish Stew (Fish)
4, Fist Full of Jam (Dessert)
5, Tomato Soup (Veggie, bowl)
6, Steak Frites (Meat)
7, Creamy Fettuccine (Pasta, plate)
8, Scone (Dessert)
9, Onion Soup (Soup, bowl)
10, Crab Roll (Bread, plate)
11, Crab Ravioli (Pasta, plate)
12, Trifile (Dessert, plate)
13, Shooter Sandwich (Bread, plate)
14, Fish Steak (Fish)
15, Meat Wellington (Meat, plate)
16, Cheesecake (Dessert, plate)
17, Cheeseburger (Bread, plate)
18, Creamy Fish (Fish, plate)
19, Pot Roast (Meat, plate)
20, Caramel Cube (Dessert)
21, Cream of Mushroom Soup (Cheese, bowl)
22, Crab Cake (Snack, plate)
23, Macaroni and Cheese (Pasta, bowl)
24, Bread Pudding (Dessert)
25, Escaped (Snack)

We had some good luck in this run, but we actually made two mistakes.

1, We forgot to pre-cook one more Cheese (Pierogi) to serve in R21. We didn't want to waste more time to cook Pierogi, so we served Cream of Mushroom Soup instead. If we got Pierogy pre-cooked, we could have got 200 more points.

2, We should have cooked Bacon Wrapped Meat instead of Pot Roast since it returns 1 sapphire to keep things going. At R25, we finally run out of silver plates and had to escape. If R19 was Bacon, we got one more silver plate and could make Grilled Cheese for R25 (cooks super fast!). This could help us get another 1-200 more points.

After more than 8 hours of non-stoping playing tournament, we were really exhausted and made few mistakes that shouldn't happen. Plus it was only 40 minutes left until the tournament ended, we felt quite pressed.

The end game was totally a mess. Our farmer Winona should cook Oven meals but he didn't; our chef Wes had forgotton what had been cooked, she thought Bacon was cooked and served by Winona already. And me, Waxwell which should help cooking meals that wasn't cooked near the end game, can't really remember anything and just idled around. Normally I would cook Pierogi for Cheese, Bagel'Nfish for Bread in case we need them, but I did nothing.

So, we could have got 7k+ if we didn't made any mistakes, or even maybe 7.3k+ if got some good luck on R26. But since these mistakes are entirely down to us, we shouldn't make any execuses.

 

To be honest, it is definitely not our best game, and in fact could even be one of our worse games. We have a lot of decent 16 min+ games with 20 meals but all our pre-cooked meals didn't satisfy the next rounds.

However, ironicly, it was our best score so far and made into silver prize within the last minutes. Personally I feel honoured, but also there're some regrets left.

 

To further think about the tournament, I truely believe these RNG factors affect the final result much more than the skills of top players. This makes game competiton more like a gamble: it's like 80% on luck and 20% on skills. I guess all these 6.5+ teams have chance to get pass 7k+ score only if Miss Fortune is on their side.

In the Gorge tournament, you normally restart 3-4 times to only gets R2 Veggie R5 non-Snack. After that, you still need hope RNG goes well, or your 30 minutes of retry would be ruined again. In a reasonable playing time (like 3-4 hours) for each day, you can only play 6-7 games. If RNG hates you, you could even not get single one game that satisfies the basic requirements for a good score run!

I hope furthur competitions could avoid this heavy-RNG-based format. RNG factor can be interesting in a rogue-like game, but for a competion, they were definitely not favorable.

It was fun playing Gorge, especially the tournament which led me meet some of the best DST/Gorge players. And I really appreciate it and hope you Klei guys keep good events going in the future!

 

Our 6797 game video:

https://www.bilibili.com/video/av27114090

(not sure if it can be seen if you're not in China, but i'll leave it here anyway)

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Lentiscus    14

I guess It was the real score in your video (7k+) but some bugs in the Tournament and event prevented your happy end.
You offers 24 cravings for 17m51s with the 6797 points. And in the Top above is the team that offers 23 cravings for the same time. And they have 6914 points. WTF? Can you explain this? :mad:
But the video is perfect, it was nice to saw it. :)

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jantonio    2866
17 minutes ago, Lentiscus said:

I guess It was the real score in your video (7k+) but some bugs in the Tournament and event prevented your happy end.
You offers 24 cravings for 17m51s with the 6797 points. And in the Top above is the team that offers 23 cravings for the same time. And they have 6914 points. WTF? Can you explain this? :mad:
But the video is perfect, it was nice to saw it. :)

silver plating/bowling op

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maxiaogua    86
1 hour ago, Lentiscus said:

I guess It was the real score in your video (7k+) but some bugs in the Tournament and event prevented your happy end.
You offers 24 cravings for 17m51s with the 6797 points. And in the Top above is the team that offers 23 cravings for the same time. And they have 6914 points. WTF? Can you explain this? :mad:
But the video is perfect, it was nice to saw it. :)

Actually, it's the mod being bugged. Every Gorge mod that predicts final score has the same bug: if one meal has been finished during the sacrificiting process, the "Meal Cooked" message would interrupt the "Meal Sacrificed" msg thus make it appear two times. The mods will take that as two same meals being sacrificed, then it considers the run as failed and predicts a higher score. The score appears after the game is the real score, so I think 6797 is right.

As the 3rd team got exact same time but 120+ higher than out score, it is because their meals have higher total value than ours. The problem should be R21 cheese (Mush Soup as cheese didn't give GF), if only we got a Pierogi pre-cooked, we could have got 7k based on our experience.

This our last run had already got perfect luck, and we could have made it 7.3k if no mistakes were made. But people aren't perfect machine so we always make mistakes LOL.

Also an ideal 24 meals run should have been around 17min. 17m51s is a bit slower and it's due to the fact that all of us three were exhausted at that time.

 

So in our stragedy, the ideal result could be 7.5-7.6k (super good luck + no mistakes + all three cooks fast). But that's only an ideal number ;)

 

 

Also, though specific details may vary, I think there're two general routes for this tournament:

Quote

 

Route 1, Only cook 20 Rounds as fast as possible and escape immediately.

Route 2, Pre-cook some (3-4) meals ready before R20, and see what Gnaw wants next. In this route you will get 21-25 Rounds based on what you have prepared.

 

I don't know animal and clwnbaby's team, but I guess they choosed the 1st route. You couldn't precook many meals with only 15-16min.

In this route, you will need some luck predicting each (4x+1) Round.

 

Meanwhile I guess Nalant's team could have been using a similiar Route 2 stragedy like ours. It usually takes 17min for prepraring extra meals.

In this route, you also need luck predicting R21-R25.

 

I kinda feel like Route 2 has higher chance getting 7k+ score, and even 7.5k is possible. But either way, it's more based on RNG factors.

 

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