What does keep energy conservation?

[martosss]

12 minutes ago, Hedning1390 said:

The NG generator is one of few items that could conserve energy should all the temperatures be exactly what they need to be.

The answer to the main question of the topic is nothing that consumes and/or produces conserves energy. Tiles that just sit there doing nothing but let heat flow conserve energy. There is also no relation between heat energy, electrical energy and mass energy.

Well, you can try to pick several things that convert 1 type of matter/energy to the other without contradictions, e.g. take smart battery as power => heat generation alternative - converts (2/3)W of Power to generate 2.5W of heat.

So if you want to convert electrical power into heat - build 100 smart batteries, charge them and let them discharge - that's effective.

Of course, you might consider some things as bugs and not count them towards that item's behavior. Here are 2 heat examples that pop in mind first:

• Power transformer generating heat from nothing if it's charged and disconnected from the grid from the bottom end
• Heat deletion on dead critters(I just read a post of someone heating his critters to 70° before letting them die/ they dying out of heat stroke, since probably their meat has fixed temperature after death ).

5 minutes ago, tasauge said:

But at least I can tell that meal lice has about 3.8888 the energy of dirt (because feeding hatches with meal lice needs 3.8888... times less dirt). Maybe that's what you mean? (That for instance the clothes are less/more heavy than what is used to make them?) If no, then I'll clarify my main goal (as I don't understand what you said): I'd like to see what machines to use in order to avoid mass deperdition/creation (ok, maybe that second one is not that much a problem).

You also might think about 140kg slime vs mushrooms that cost ~1/7th ... anyways, hatches are a waste of resource in any case, since they require more kcal of food than they give you. BTW here's a thread where I compare critters' eggs efficiency for omelette -

You can basically see that even the conversion of critter kcal to eggs(not taking waste into consideration) is hugely different - some critters require many more "calories" than others. An issue is, however, that those "critter calories" have nothing in common, so they're basically calories A, calories B, calories C, having totally different meaning. However, some critters do eat dupe food and here things get interesting because we can try to see which kcal conversion is the best(e.g. bugs eat berries and normal hatches eat all kinds of dupe food).

[Hedning1390]

21 minutes ago, tasauge said:

Er, I think I don't understand... Do you say that the thermal energy is not conserved, but the mass is?

The relation missing between heat energy, electrical energy and mass energy, even if it is true, is not really a problem. I'd like to try to figure this out "scientifically", but as there is no thing to create mass from heat/electricity, there is obviously at least one connection missing (or is it? I'd say duplicants are mass to heat converters.).

But at least I can tell that meal lice has about 3.8888 the energy of dirt (because feeding hatches with meal lice needs 3.8888... times less dirt). Maybe that's what you mean? (That for instance the clothes are less/more heavy than what is used to make them?) If no, then I'll clarify my main goal (as I don't understand what you said): I'd like to see what machines to use in order to avoid mass deperdition/creation (ok, maybe that second one is not that much a problem).

No, nothing is conserved. There are no actual conversions in the game. Instead things are sent into oblivion and new things are created from nothing. But in the case of the NG generator and a few other machines you can tweak the temperatures so that the left hand side of the energy equation equals the right hand side.

If you want to find out how to save mass that is totally possible, but energy and heat has nothing to do with it. However how much mass they give in return for what they consume is less important than what they create. For example dirt is more valuable than sand, so a sieve that produces less dirt than it consumes sand is still a very good trade.

Morb-p02-pufft-slime-mushroom is a good way to make food/mass. Balm lilly-drecko is another. Neither consume anything but produce mass, and very useful mass at that

17 minutes ago, martosss said:

Well, you can try to pick several things that convert 1 type of matter/energy to the other without contradictions, e.g. take smart battery as power => heat generation alternative - converts (2/3)W of Power to generate 2.5W of heat.

That doesn't count as a relation. If there was a relation between electricity and heat then it would be the same for another heat source. As it is it is totally random, hence no relation.

[martosss]

 

1 hour ago, Hedning1390 said:

Morb-p02-pufft-slime-mushroom is a good way to make food/mass. Balm lilly-drecko is another. Neither consume anything but produce mass, and very useful mass at that

Morb and balm lily in this case, see, if you remove those 2 as "generators" you can consider the rest plausible conversions.

1 hour ago, Hedning1390 said:

That doesn't count as a relation. If there was a relation between electricity and heat then it would be the same for another heat source. As it is it is totally random, hence no relation.

You can try counting this as the "true" relation. For all other cases imagine that electricity converts to some other part of the final product(e.g. electricity from scrubber converts CO2 into dirt, so you can include it in the conversion formula there, or electricity in the algae deoxydizer goes into O2 conversion from Algae).

[Hedning1390]

56 minutes ago, martosss said:

 

Morb and balm lily in this case, see, if you remove those 2 as "generators" you can consider the rest plausible conversions.

You can try counting this as the "true" relation. For all other cases imagine that electricity converts to some other part of the final product(e.g. electricity from scrubber converts CO2 into dirt, so you can include it in the conversion formula there, or electricity in the algae deoxydizer goes into O2 conversion from Algae).

No. A dusk cap converts 30kg slime into 1kg mushroom. That's not plausible. Its the same for the others.

When all "conversions" are random then yes, I could consider one equation to be true, but the other ones will break. There's no way to make an equation system that works out.

[martosss]

1 hour ago, Hedning1390 said:

 

When all "conversions" are random then yes, I could consider one equation to be true, but the other ones will break. There's no way to make an equation system that works out.

What do you mean random? That the devs came up  with them randomly?  There is definitely a way - you just have to cross out enough equations, i.e. remove those machines  from the game as exploits