Kometes Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 WX-78 is a character with literally no downsides. Players wear the eyebrella all year round, so rain isn't a problem. WX-78 isn't picky about food is illogical and should be removed. In reality, the caloric value of food is determined by burning it. If spoiling food in DST leads to a decrease in stats, no matter how the WX-78 receives energy from food, it should not restore its characteristics as fresh. A lightning strike should be lethal to the WX because the power surge burns out the electronics. The WX shouldn't support lightning. (+100 hp. WHAT THE HELL?!) The character isn't vulnerable to electrocution. What the hell? Chess mechanisms are vulnerable, but a robot isn't? What you did with the schematics and skill tree is a nightmare. Before the tree, all WXs came with speed-up schematics. The solution was simple: remove the ability to insert duplicate schematics. This is still relevant. Drones are absolute cringe. Along with spare bodies, they allow full teleportation (yay (no)! another character with the ability to teleport). Drones should either be removed completely, or their creation should be made more difficult, for example, with feathers for the weak version and mooses feathers for the upgraded one. Speaking of spare bodies... incredibly cheap crafting allows for teleportation and endless respawns. Crafting should be more complex, for example, 3-5 gears instead of 1 or 1-2 severed wires. Such resources can only be reliably obtained in such quantities in ruins. This will encourage players to perform the WX-78's intended function and will require a certain level of skill. The gamma scale of the schemas is cringe, from their functions to the visual component of their actions. A second energy scale was truly lacking to fully unlock the schemas' potential. But the gamma scale is meaningless and should be removed. Before the skill tree, people didn't change their schematics and, as I already mentioned, only used speed-up schematics. Now, the concept of building and changing schematics is completely unfeasible, since after the tree, schematics gained durability. I honestly don't understand how you manage to balance things so poorly. You've created another strong character with no downsides. If you care about your game, you'll have to listen to me. I used Google Translate because I don't speak English very well. There might be some inaccuracies. 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/171543-how-do-you-manage-such-terrible-balance/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
2D_ Posted May 17 Share Posted May 17 In general, I agree with the author, except for the lines about undemanding food, skill tree and gamma slots. Don't cut the character down too much. I think the author wrote it harshly but to the point. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/171543-how-do-you-manage-such-terrible-balance/#findComment-1867231 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broldier Posted May 18 Share Posted May 18 "Rain isn't a problem..." "...as long as you lug around and have an Eyebrella" 1. Pretty sure that's a downside. It is a legitimate resource problem to balance body and headgear slots, and I mean that especially for WX players. 2. If you see how food values are designed, it is mostly based on how nutritious, healthy, and or delicious it is, not by caloric intake. Insofar as to say, meat that came from a monster and blended with ice would be some terribly unfufilling meatballs. A robot would not care where its food has come from. Stale or spoiled, despite the bacterial growth, shows proof of nutrition. Ever been to a food processing plant? 3. They're a robot in a video game. We have goats that do far much more than just get HP. How often do you get struck by lightning wearing an Eyebrella anyway? 4. You need a circuit to do this. Specifically, one from the aforementioned goat. 5. Skill issue. The skill tree is a bit of a stinker, but I think community consensus is that almost every skill tree is... middling at best. 6. Removing their character identity makes them more like a crappier Wilson with a permanent Walking Cane tbh. I preferred gear grinding WX from DSA more than them DST state, but after their skill tree, it made them more interesting and allowed Klei to get more experimental. That's good. 7. I thought the drones were nice. Creatively, I think WX would've had more deadlier contraptions. Say, a mech suit. I liked the detachable body parts idea (WX with a flamethrower?). 8. Gears are cheap, but feathers aren't? Not only that, you barely changed the recipe. Ruins diving is HARDLY challenging -- it is laughable. And WX is designed to spelunk in that instance, being the best one kitted to do so. 9. 3/5's of the Gamma circuits need to be tweaked for sure. Spinning's fun though. Not even remotely strong or practical in line with the top damage dealers, it's just fun. 10. Circuits have always had durability since their inception. Excluding beta patches I don't know about nor opted into. 11. WX is like a C+ tier character at best. Speaking as a main. "Free teleports" often get parroted but people genuinely don't understand the resource cost to EARN that teleport. You realize how much Bio Data you have to scan, how many circuits that must be carefully and resourcefully chunked for each chassis. It's not even the best way to use chassis's but people sure love the ability to teleport early. Yeah, maybe if you like playing as WILSON with WORST STATS EARLY. Not to be mean, your critique feels like bait. I think the major downside of WX is that you're playing as them and not the rest of the cast (LOL) that can do their job, but thousands of miles better. They fulfill the "jack of all trades, master of none" niche. Quite mundanely, too. And the last segment is extremely disrespectful to the developers. They're not servants. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/171543-how-do-you-manage-such-terrible-balance/#findComment-1867265 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kometes Posted May 18 Author Share Posted May 18 1. No, that's not a downside. All the characters wear eyebrella for two seasons; it doesn't rain in winter, and it rarely rains in autumn. So, now you have to figure out when this downside will become apparent. 2. Technically, you can get full on a box of Snickers bars just as you can on a bowl of soup. Of course, in reality, you wouldn't do that (obviously, you can't eat the same food over and over again unless it's meant for regular consumption). In the game, we can ignore food preferences, which means forgetting about the nutritional value of the food, its taste, the amount of fats, carbohydrates, and so on. All we're left with is its energy value. When food rots (is broken down by bacteria), the substances from which you get energy are broken down. AND IT TURNS OUT THAT WX GET ENERGY OUT OF NOWHERE. 6. I mentioned that players were forgetting about other schemes and using the three speed boost schemes. The introduction of the beta scale helped partially solve this. Frankly, I haven't seen the alpha scale slots filled with other boosts yet. I don't understand what you meant by the Wilson identity, or rather, how you connected it to this point. 8. The point isn't in the drastic crafting changes, but in what you'll need to use them. In any case, exploring the ruins requires some experience. I doubt you'll deny there's a learning curve. (I get annoyed by people who don't fulfill their character's function. OK.) 10. Apparently I missed the point, but in any case, this makes "juggling" the schemes questionable, prompting not to change them. I admit I missed some points, and in some ways I was wrong. I will not discuss the ethical issue because it is a disgusting topic. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/171543-how-do-you-manage-such-terrible-balance/#findComment-1867314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broldier Posted Monday at 11:17 PM Share Posted Monday at 11:17 PM 1. Sure. I've had this dilemma with a friend. Let's say you're in the caves, about to kill AFW. A bout of bad luck happens (mostly neglecting to check the Rainometer), causing it to drop rain out of nowhere. Your usual strategy might be Magi + Football helmet, juggling the Nightmare Amulet during one of AFW's phases. At the time, I had 1 Accel + Optoelectronic + Rangebooster. You're at the doorstep of the Atrium, do you... A. go back to base, or B. stay and wait until the rain goes away? Either way, you're shedding time. I chose B. It rained in the caves for about 2-3 days straight. Had I chosen A, I still would have been under additional downtime (did not setup goat farm for charges) taking out my circuits to be capable to fight without Magi, opting for a Raincoat and Football Helm setup. If you're a god gamer, to which that I am not, you may be able to juggle the Eyebrella or Umbrella as you fought AFW with my initial strategy. Being that extremely skilled players can probably micro the tools to beat AFW, I'm certain they can, but that's an extreme skill ceiling to expect average players like myself to hit. You sacrifice a slot to fight in the rain. What's the ideal scenario? Don't fight in the rain, unless you have a Warly. WX is restricted in this way. 2. I'll simplify this. Humans have a digestive system designed to eat fresh food. The reason eating spoiled food is not the norm, is because that food now mostly houses bacteria or mold that has turned the food into a toxin for us, but a delicious byproduct for them. However, the value of food is still there, just no longer meant for human consumption, until to the point that food is now literal rot. WX is not human. I will say the food penalty from eating raw meat,as WX is an interesting effect. 3. What is WX without speed? A worse Wilson. Or a worse Maxwell... depends on how you use them. Your proposal, to my understanding, was to remove the concept of adding duplicate circuits. Whether these circuits were to be buffed or nerfed after the proposal, I don't know, but the concept is supposed to allow a player to ignore a downside or two of the game's elements. Slotting in all Acceleration circuits means that you've decided to provide your own lighting or weather solution. This comes at the cost of your inventory slots, but it drastically improves your ability to kite and explore. Players that I have read about at most slot in one Accel, then choose whatever circuit seems more fitting to them. I say having 3 Accel is overkill unless you just want to fight all the time. What's 3 Accel gonna do for me while I'm sailing a boat or fishing? Nothin. 2 Accel's a sweet spot for whatever circuit you may put in last. Alpha circuits could use some work... that's another topic. 4. That's completely understandable. 5. I made this complaint in my thread. Circuit durability is merely one vector that makes players not want to switch off their current configuration, unless they are intrigued by the idea of grinding Bio Data. Thank you for this reasonable discourse. I might be wrong in some aspects or not know about WX myself... This is just my narrow and biased perspective playing as the character. A lot of their mechanics seem enticing to a new player, so it is easy to say it is "overpowered", or strong, in that aspect. In reality, these small upsides pale in comparison to other characters' strengths. Why use Possessed Chassis when other characters have much better followers? Why target WX's ability to eat spoiled food when they are at their weakest at the beginning? Is lightning truly an issue? (It is, because if it doesn't target the Lightning Rod, it's gonna target WX, which is gonna cause the base to go on fire.) 1 Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/171543-how-do-you-manage-such-terrible-balance/#findComment-1867372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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