Possible changes to alpha circuits

[Kvetevk]

Currently the stats for alpha circuits are overtuned:
Hardy = 50 health
Super-Hardy = 150 health
Gastrogain = 40 hunger
Super-Gastrogain = 100 hunger
Processing = 40 sanity
Super-Processing = 100 sanity

These stats were made for 6 slots, now that we have basicly 21 slots, we dont need to sacrifice speed or other possible upgrades to gain massive stat bonuses. Now we can have stat bonuses alongside other useful utilities, because of this, the current values remove meaningful trade-offs and make survival significantly easier than intended. Players can stack multiple powerful circuits at once without any real downside.
Instead of just adjusting bonuses in the skill tree, it would make more sense to reduce the overall stats provided by the circuits themselves. This way, the skill system can remain impactful while the circuits stats are brought back into a more balanced state earlygame.

I suggest these changes:
Hardy = 25 health
Super-Hardy = 100 health
Gastrogain = 25 hunger
Super-Gastrogain = 100 hunger
Processing = 25 sanity
Super-Processing = 100 sanity
Beanbooster = unchanged

These stat changes would make earlygame less easy while still rewarding players for using the upgraded versions. With 6 slots, health would be either 250 or 400 (instead of 400 or 550) if players uses only Hardy or Super-Hardy circuits while having 100 sanity and hunger, this change would encourage players to make "Super" cicruits instead of using only the weaker versions.

Also if these stats would be changed, then the average player who wants to upgrade all his stats equally would have:
With weaker versions = 150 Health/Sanity/Hunger (normal stats)
With "Super" versions = 200 Health/Sanity/Hunger (Wolfgang stats)
(Which makes sense for me, since alpha circuits aren’t going to be changed or replaced frequently)

Edit: If the circuits will be nerfed, Hardy circuits could get a stronger armor bonus to compensate, here are some of the possible changes:
1. Super-Hardy = 10%/10%/10%  Hardy = 3.5% (more tuned down) (max 33.5%)
2. Super-Hardy = 20%/15%/10%  Hardy = 5% (more rewarding) (max 50%)
3. Super-Hardy = 15%/10%/10%  Hardy = 5%/3.5%/3.5%... (middle ground) (max 40%)
(counting with the skill Off By One)

Edited March 30 by Kvetevk

[zvxaxvz]

this seems fair, I agree

[hhhhddh]

I think it might be the nerf klei would implement.

But I have to point out that WX need to scan creatures to unlock them. You need to wait for spider queen and you have to find Slurper(and get their skin) etc. Not mean I think it's very difficult but other characters born with the stats. So I think there should be some exceeding stats provided. 

In my opinion the reduce of the stat could be bring back by some skill tree perks, like alpha ones. Since hardy's armor is nerfed twice, alpha perks are not so attractive to me, but if they bring back some stats they're more attractive.

[Kvetevk]

33 minutes ago, hhhhddh said:

I think it might be the nerf klei would implement.

But I have to point out that WX need to scan creatures to unlock them. You need to wait for spider queen and you have to find Slurper(and get their skin) etc. Not mean I think it's very difficult but other characters born with the stats. So I think there should be some exceeding stats provided. 

In my opinion the reduce of the stat could be bring back by some skill tree perks, like alpha ones. Since hardy's armor is nerfed twice, alpha perks are not so attractive to me, but if they bring back some stats they're more attractive.

That is true, but wx have the option to choose which stats to boost, if you really want you could have stats like:
Currently = 300 health, 140 sanity and 140 hunger, with just 4 spider glands, 1 hound tooth and 1 petals
or if you find a few spider dens next to each other and have Bio data to spare, you could easly farm 7 spider glands and have 450 health (with skill off by one).

You would have to either change it so the stat gain would decrease after the same circuit plugged in (like Super-Acceleration circuit) or nerft the flat stats.
Also if you manage to find at least 1 tier 3 spider den, you can haunt it to spawn a spider queen (with wx new chassis skills inhabited Machine 1 and 2 you can easly revive yourself after successfully spawning spider queen)

And about the slurper skin, yes they are hard to find and scan/obtain, but instead of 180 hunger you would still have 150 hunger with just 2 Gastrogain circuits, that is like the same hunger as most of the characters + you can now eat all dishes without losing on hunger points (meaty stew 150 hunger)

Edited March 29 by Kvetevk

[Jakepeng99]

5 hours ago, Kvetevk said:

Currently the stats for alpha circuits are overtuned:
Hardy = 50 health
Super-Hardy = 150 health
Gastrogain = 40 hunger
Super-Gastrogain = 100 hunger
Processing = 40 sanity
Super-Processing = 100 sanity

These stats were made for 6 slots, now that we have basicly 21 slots, we dont need to sacrifice speed or other possible upgrades to gain massive stat bonuses. Now we can have stat bonuses alongside other useful utilities, because of this, the current values remove meaningful trade-offs and make survival significantly easier than intended. Players can stack multiple powerful circuits at once without any real downside.
Instead of adjusting bonuses in the skill tree, it would make more sense to reduce the overall stats provided by the circuits themselves. This way, the skill system can remain impactful while the circuits are brought back into a more balanced state.

I suggest these changes:
Hardy = 25 health
Super-Hardy = 100 health
Gastrogain = 25 hunger
Super-Gastrogain = 100 hunger
Processing = 25 sanity
Super-Processing = 100 sanity
Beanbooster = unchanged

These stat changes would make earlygame less easy while still rewarding players for using the upgraded versions. With 6 slots, health would be either 250 or 400 (instead of 400 or 550) if players uses only Hardy or Super-Hardy circuits while having 100 sanity and hunger, this change would encourage players to make "Super" cicruits instead of using only the weaker versions.

Also if these stats would be changed, then the average player who wants to upgrade all his stats equally would have:
With weaker versions = 150 Health/Sanity/Hunger (normal stats)
With "Super" versions = 200 Health/Sanity/Hunger (Wolfgang stats)
(Which makes sense for me, since alpha circuits aren’t going to be changed or replaced frequently)

Edit: If the circuits will be nerfed, Hardy circuits could get a stronger armor bonus to compensate, here are some of the possible changes:
1. Super-Hardy = 10%/10%/10%  Hardy = 3.5% (more tuned down) (max 33.5%)
2. Super-Hardy = 20%/15%/10%  Hardy = 5% (more rewarding) (max 50%)
3. Super-Hardy = 15%/10%/10%  Hardy = 5%/3.5%/3.5%... (middle ground) (max 40%)
(counting with the skill Off By One)

I think it’s ironic you are actually just giving  the health circuit these massive buffs and making them even stronger.

 

Anyway the problem is the secondary effects, not the stats themselves Im not sure why you are nerfing them this way, it doesn’t solve anything besides be a weird nerf.

Having 50% damage reduction is way better than having a little more hp. It was nerfed for a reason, max health was not the issue at all.

They should just reduce the secondary effects of the Sainity and hunger circuits and problem solved

Edited March 29 by Jakepeng99

[Kvetevk]

30 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I think it’s ironic you are actually just giving  the health circuit these massive buffs and making them even stronger.

I wouldnt call it a buff, more like a prediction of possible changes, because Klei Developer said: "but next week we will also put some focus on retuning the current Circuits" 
Also Im mostly nerfing the earlygame, the only buff you can see is the alpha tinkering skill for Hardy circuits.
 

33 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Anyway the problem is the secondary effects, not the stats themselves Im not sure why you are nerfing them this way, it doesn’t solve anything besides be a weird nerf.

Having 50% damage reduction is way better than having a little more hp. It was nerfed for a reason, max health was not the issue at all.

They should just reduce the secondary effects of the Sainity and hunger circuits and problem solved

I will give you a few reasons why I think nerfing the stats would be balanced change:
1. These stats were made while you could only have 6 circuits, them having theire own 6-7 slots have made them much more stronger, since you still have 14 slots for other circuits.
2. Wx78 in earlygame can have 450 health just by killing some spiders (275 with this change).
3. A lot of people were complaining about Hardy circuits having low armor, so if you want to increase armor you would logically decrease health.
4. Wx78 is right now the strongest character for survival, having basicly free revive every 245 seconds (if you wont starve) and they can also ignore winter, summer, darkness, hunger and sanity.

Im not a developer, so I cant actually implement these changes, its just a suggestion. If you have criticisms, thats completely fine, but Id much rather hear what you would change and more importantly why, in a bit more detail.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

These stats were made while you could only have 6 circuits, them having theire own 6-7 slots have made them much more stronger, since you still have 14 slots for other circuits.

It didnt work out since having high stats isnt that valuable. Having high health is more niche than you think since it doesnt increase healing compared to damage reduction. Having high hunger does nothing past 150 hunger besides being good qol. Having high sainity can be argued to be the worse, many players believe its a downside, and having lower sainity is better since you can easily become non insane by killing one nightmare. It would be better to compare it to the old gear system, but in general having high stats isnt as impactful as you think, with health being the most useful since its good for burst damage and lets you focus on combat more than healing.

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

Wx78 in earlygame can have 450 health just by killing some spiders (275 with this change).

Having 450 health and using all your circuit slots isnt a bad thing at all. It gives you much more wiggle room but thats it, compared to extra armour reduction which gives ylu both wiggle room and extra health efficency. Actually, he would end up having practically 550 health and 50% extra healing with your changes which is like, not close to a nerf. 

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

3. A lot of people were complaining about Hardy circuits having low armor, so if you want to increase armor you would logically decrease health.

I saw maybe 4 people but a majority of people i saw seemed to either not care, understand it or be happy. Even now i see people think the health circuit is still the best.

1 hour ago, Kvetevk said:

4. Wx78 is right now the strongest character for survival, having basicly free revive every 245 seconds (if you wont starve) and they can also ignore winter, summer, darkness, hunger and sanity.

Lowering hunger does nothing, and lowering sainity is both good and bad. Your targetting the wrong areas, and just end up accidently making WX way stronger since you dont understand the balance and value of stats well.

If you want to nerf them, nerf their secondary effects since most your changes feel pointless, or do the opposite of what you wanted to achieve. Maybe suggest rebalancing to his skill that lets him spawn a chasis on death.

 

As in what i would do, maybe reduce hunger circuit to 25% less drain, and sainity circuit to 25% less too.

 

Edited March 29 by Jakepeng99

[Kvetevk]

46 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It didnt work out since having high stats isnt that valuable. Having high health is more niche than you think since it doesnt increase healing compared to damage reduction. Having high hunger does nothing past 150 hunger besides being good qol. Having high sainity can be argued to be the worse, many players believe its a downside, and having lower sainity is better since you can easily become non insane by killing one nightmare. It would be better to compare it to the old gear system, but in general having high stats isnt as impactful as you think, with health being the most useful since its good for burst damage and lets you focus on combat more than healing.

That's fair, sanity circuits could be ignored but health and hunger could be cheesed since the chassis + adding circuits will change % of set stats, other than that, I honestly agree.

46 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Having 450 health and using all your circuit slots isnt a bad thing at all. It gives you much more wiggle room but thats it, compared to extra armour reduction which gives ylu both wiggle room and extra health efficency. Actually, he would end up having practically 550 health and 50% extra healing with your changes which is like, not close to a nerf.

The % that I posted were made on the spot, I wanted to find a middle ground where wx without the tinkering skill would have a bit less health, while with skill, wx would basicly have same health as before but with factored armor (numbers could be altered).

46 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Lowering hunger does nothing, and lowering sainity is both good and bad. Your targetting the wrong areas, and just end up accidently making WX way stronger since you dont understand the balance and value of stats well.

If you want to nerf them, nerf their secondary effects since most your changes feel pointless, or do the opposite of what you wanted to achieve. Maybe suggest rebalancing to his skill that lets him spawn a chasis on death.

 

As in what i would do, maybe reduce hunger circuit to 25% less drain, and sainity circuit to 25% less too.

The sanity circuits are fine as they are, lowering their basic circuit that cost 1 petals seems fair, same goes for the basic hunger circuit.

I have not touched the "Super" gastrogain and processing circuit, only posted the current values and didnt changed them, since I only touched the basic ones + upgraded hardy circuit, to make the upgraded ones actually more desirable.

Should the % of the secondary effects change? Yes, but I never brought up the ones that are problematic by your viewpoint.

Edited March 29 by Kvetevk

[Evelo]

The base stats were also reduced to 100/100/100 so that helps balance it out a little. I'm just waiting to see how the circuit tree itself is being nerfed before making too many opinions since I think without the circuit bonuses from the skill tree, the current set up is fine. Powerful, but not like, oppressively powerful.

 

[WendyHater9000]

I feel like assigning speed circuit into alpha instead of beta will fix most of this issue.