Thoughts on Warly's tree

[aidancode]

Not gonna lie, I really don't like playing as present-day Warly. He's very cool, but there's so many annoying things to deal with that he's just frustrating to play with. But he is still cool. Warly's got a ton of really cool ideas at play. I can see why people like him. Warly's skill tree is my most anticipated new tree of the bunch, with Webber as a close second.

I think pretty much everyone agrees, but Warly's downside shouldn't be gutted. I also want to point out that Warly has an increased hunger drain, which some people might not realize. So even if you are eating unique dishes every single meal, you're still draining hunger faster than normal. This is actually good! It makes Warly an actual challenge to play! (Until you figure out a strategy and then religiously stick to it... which is kinda hard of an issue to fix). So contrary to what many people have said, I really don't want to see a perk like "the first time Warly eats a dish in a while, he restores extra hunger". That feels like it fights against the increased hunger drain.

What Warly absolutey needs, though, is more power before he starts going. I don't like needing to farm a bunch or get a ton of volt goat horns just to become powerful. I think my favorite ideas I've seen are Warly getting extra resources from killing animals, and Warly getting a speed boost for a short time after eating a unique meal. The latter especially seems quite interesting for bossfights.

Warly's spices are a somewhat underdeveloped mechanic. A few new spices would be very cool. A spice that reduces spoilage by, say, a factor of 4x, could be cool (though salt is already taken, RIP). It could also be cool to have, like, a carrot spice that increases max zoom and map reveal radius for a few minutes.

I'd love to see Warly's farming becoming more mechanically interesting. Wormwood is all about making farming easier, with his auto-tending and plant identification. Warly, the other farmer, could juxtapose this by making farming more difficult, but more rewarding. This could be done by adding new items with somewhat complex systems that can grow more plants. Something like a fertilizer that makes plants less happy but makes them grow faster (though this may infringe a little too much on Wickerbottom territory).

Warly conceptually is really cool. He's a challenging character, that much is for sure, and people who say otherwise tend to just be already very experienced at the game. Warly is designed for people with intermediate/semi-advanced skill that want to play the game differently than they might normally. Even though I find Warly frustrating to play right now, I recognize that the character just has the vibes right. Really makes the game feel like it's about not starving again. I like that.

[DegenerateFurry]

3 hours ago, aidancode said:

I think pretty much everyone agrees, but Warly's downside shouldn't be gutted. I also want to point out that Warly has an increased hunger drain, which some people might not realize. So even if you are eating unique dishes every single meal, you're still draining hunger faster than normal. This is actually good! It makes Warly an actual challenge to play! (Until you figure out a strategy and then religiously stick to it... which is kinda hard of an issue to fix). So contrary to what many people have said, I really don't want to see a perk like "the first time Warly eats a dish in a while, he restores extra hunger". That feels like it fights against the increased hunger drain.

Yeah, if anything, as someone who plays Warly a lot, I would rather see his downside increased than removed. There's a cheese method to deal with it: letting yourself get close to starving and then eating a couple Meaty Stews. Wouldn't be nearly as viable if he had a smaller hunger pool (like, a normal one instead of a bigger than normal one), and I don't think that'd affect less experienced players that much. As it currently is, Warly's food penalty affects your ability to heal much more than it affects your ability to stay fed.

3 hours ago, aidancode said:

What Warly absolutey needs, though, is more power before he starts going. I don't like needing to farm a bunch or get a ton of volt goat horns just to become powerful. I think my favorite ideas I've seen are Warly getting extra resources from killing animals, and Warly getting a speed boost for a short time after eating a unique meal. The latter especially seems quite interesting for bossfights.

I agree with both of these ideas, especially since both of them reduce his problem of being a swap character. Maybe the stat boost he gets from eating a unique meal varies depending on what kind of meal it is and the total stat value of said meal?

Maybe goodies give speed, meat gives damage, and plants give... either a bonus to healing from food or some heal-over-time passive. 

As for the "total stat value" thing: meatballs have a total stat value of 70.5, and tall Scotch eggs have a total stat value of 215, so tall Scotch eggs would give a bigger damage bonus. I think that there should probably be a whitelist of foods that give bonuses when eaten without a hunger penalty instead of just having it be only non-penalty dishes, though? So, recipes featuring specific ingredients like figs, leafy meat, tallbird eggs, farm crops, Warly-specific recipes, surf 'n turf, that sort of thing. Otherwise, you'd be able to get a damage boost from eating the first meatballs you made in a world, and having it scale based on a percentage of the total stats (for instance, 1/20th would make meatballs give 3.5% extra damage while tall Scotch eggs would give 10.75% extra damage, and going any higher than that would kinda make meatballs too good). 

 

3 hours ago, aidancode said:

Warly's spices are a somewhat underdeveloped mechanic. A few new spices would be very cool. A spice that reduces spoilage by, say, a factor of 4x, could be cool (though salt is already taken, RIP). It could also be cool to have, like, a carrot spice that increases max zoom and map reveal radius for a few minutes.

I feel like it's inevitable that we're going to get two new spices (planar damage/defense ones for lunar and shadow respectively), but outside of that, I would like to see both buffs to his current spices and some new ones like you're saying. 

Warly's seasoning salt is terrible and never worth using as-is. 25% of 60 brings it up to 75, which is okay, but not worth it. For the time investment spent getting salt, you could've just made one more of that dish, or several of another dish that heals the same amount. It's even less impactful for more common healing foods that do 40 HP like pierogies. I genuinely believe it needs a total rework to do what you're saying: reduce spoilage time, although 4x is probably a little much (the devs can play with the exact numbers). 

I like the idea of some kind of spice that increases exploration capabilities by improving map reveal radius, but I don't think carrot-based spice is the way to go since that's not much of a thing in actual cooking (I get that you're going for carrots being good for your eyes here, though). 

 

3 hours ago, aidancode said:

I'd love to see Warly's farming becoming more mechanically interesting. Wormwood is all about making farming easier, with his auto-tending and plant identification. Warly, the other farmer, could juxtapose this by making farming more difficult, but more rewarding. This could be done by adding new items with somewhat complex systems that can grow more plants. Something like a fertilizer that makes plants less happy but makes them grow faster (though this may infringe a little too much on Wickerbottom territory).

I've had an idea for a long time for how to both give Warly more spices with neat effects and how to shake up his farming: give him the unique ability to produce herbs. 

The way it'd work is that you take a perk, and then when harvesting wild plants (berry bushes, flowers, grass, saplings, etc), you have a chance to get herb seeds. You can plant these in plots just like normal crops and they have their own soil nutrition values (again, like normal crops), but don't provide hunger by themselves, so you're sacrificing some food value from your farm plots for whatever bonuses the herbs grant. 

Maybe instead of carrots, it's turmeric (a different root vegetable) that gives the spice for extra map reveal radius? It's supposedly good for eye health too, after all. Adding sage leaves to a dish via Warly's seasoning station could, as a reference to the belief that it wards off evil spirits, reduce enemy aggro radius against you (like how clockworks won't attack WX-78 until they're closer). Rosemary's pleasant aroma could give you some resistance to insanity auras. Thyme would make you craft things faster (and maybe even attack faster?) because this game is fifty percent puns. Mint leaves could make you impossible to set on fire (Wormwood would appreciate these). Oh, and herbs would spoil unless you dry them on a drying rack, but drying them would make them lose some of their potency. 

Edited February 25 by DegenerateFurry

[Echsrick]

i been thinkin, i think warly sould be able to eat things from a drying rack, even if its with less stat gain...or like a skill that makes him have a portable drying backpack rack at the same time somewhat like walter has...could maybe work something maybe

[DegenerateFurry]

26 minutes ago, Echsrick said:

i been thinkin, i think warly sould be able to eat things from a drying rack, even if its with less stat gain...or like a skill that makes him have a portable drying backpack rack at the same time somewhat like walter has...could maybe work something maybe

Honestly, I'd take just being able to eat jerky normally, even if there's a restriction where he has to season it first (this also means jerky can be seasoned now). 

[Ev1l]

4 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I feel like it's inevitable that we're going to get two new spices (planar damage/defense ones for lunar and shadow respectively), but outside of that, I would like to see both buffs to his current spices and some new ones like you're saying.

Depending on how its handled, that won't be helping on his "swap character" infamy. Since you could make a spicy volt goat jelly + another dish with planar buffs and just swap characters.

[Naifxoxo]

4 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

Honestly, I'd take just being able to eat jerky normally, even if there's a restriction where he has to season it first (this also means jerky can be seasoned now). 

i have to disagree , warlys downside should stay and never touched , js make him benefit from other dishes so that we dont js spam meaty stews everysingle day , other dishes need a buff too like why would i make a whole dish js to restore 40 hunger and not the ones that give 150 , 

7 hours ago, aidancode said:

Not gonna lie, I really don't like playing as present-day Warly. He's very cool, but there's so many annoying things to deal with that he's just frustrating to play with. But he is still cool. Warly's got a ton of really cool ideas at play. I can see why people like him. Warly's skill tree is my most anticipated new tree of the bunch, with Webber as a close second.

I think pretty much everyone agrees, but Warly's downside shouldn't be gutted. I also want to point out that Warly has an increased hunger drain, which some people might not realize. So even if you are eating unique dishes every single meal, you're still draining hunger faster than normal. This is actually good! It makes Warly an actual challenge to play! (Until you figure out a strategy and then religiously stick to it... which is kinda hard of an issue to fix). So contrary to what many people have said, I really don't want to see a perk like "the first time Warly eats a dish in a while, he restores extra hunger". That feels like it fights against the increased hunger drain.

What Warly absolutey needs, though, is more power before he starts going. I don't like needing to farm a bunch or get a ton of volt goat horns just to become powerful. I think my favorite ideas I've seen are Warly getting extra resources from killing animals, and Warly getting a speed boost for a short time after eating a unique meal. The latter especially seems quite interesting for bossfights.

Warly's spices are a somewhat underdeveloped mechanic. A few new spices would be very cool. A spice that reduces spoilage by, say, a factor of 4x, could be cool (though salt is already taken, RIP). It could also be cool to have, like, a carrot spice that increases max zoom and map reveal radius for a few minutes.

I'd love to see Warly's farming becoming more mechanically interesting. Wormwood is all about making farming easier, with his auto-tending and plant identification. Warly, the other farmer, could juxtapose this by making farming more difficult, but more rewarding. This could be done by adding new items with somewhat complex systems that can grow more plants. Something like a fertilizer that makes plants less happy but makes them grow faster (though this may infringe a little too much on Wickerbottom territory).

Warly conceptually is really cool. He's a challenging character, that much is for sure, and people who say otherwise tend to just be already very experienced at the game. Warly is designed for people with intermediate/semi-advanced skill that want to play the game differently than they might normally. Even though I find Warly frustrating to play right now, I recognize that the character just has the vibes right. Really makes the game feel like it's about not starving again. I like that.

i agree i like warly sometimes i choose him js to realize that he has high risk no reward lol hes boring , these type of characters u would expect them to be high risk high reward but warly dosnt have anything, he forces u to farm 24/7 even tho hes not meant to be a farm character, 

 

dishes need rework or maybe only when warly make them , make it so that they restore more stats while giving warly a buff , i like the speed buff, maybe attack speed buff and dmg too something unique for warly

7 hours ago, aidancode said:

Not gonna lie, I really don't like playing as present-day Warly. He's very cool, but there's so many annoying things to deal with that he's just frustrating to play with. But he is still cool. Warly's got a ton of really cool ideas at play. I can see why people like him. Warly's skill tree is my most anticipated new tree of the bunch, with Webber as a close second.

I think pretty much everyone agrees, but Warly's downside shouldn't be gutted. I also want to point out that Warly has an increased hunger drain, which some people might not realize. So even if you are eating unique dishes every single meal, you're still draining hunger faster than normal. This is actually good! It makes Warly an actual challenge to play! (Until you figure out a strategy and then religiously stick to it... which is kinda hard of an issue to fix). So contrary to what many people have said, I really don't want to see a perk like "the first time Warly eats a dish in a while, he restores extra hunger". That feels like it fights against the increased hunger drain.

What Warly absolutey needs, though, is more power before he starts going. I don't like needing to farm a bunch or get a ton of volt goat horns just to become powerful. I think my favorite ideas I've seen are Warly getting extra resources from killing animals, and Warly getting a speed boost for a short time after eating a unique meal. The latter especially seems quite interesting for bossfights.

Warly's spices are a somewhat underdeveloped mechanic. A few new spices would be very cool. A spice that reduces spoilage by, say, a factor of 4x, could be cool (though salt is already taken, RIP). It could also be cool to have, like, a carrot spice that increases max zoom and map reveal radius for a few minutes.

I'd love to see Warly's farming becoming more mechanically interesting. Wormwood is all about making farming easier, with his auto-tending and plant identification. Warly, the other farmer, could juxtapose this by making farming more difficult, but more rewarding. This could be done by adding new items with somewhat complex systems that can grow more plants. Something like a fertilizer that makes plants less happy but makes them grow faster (though this may infringe a little too much on Wickerbottom territory).

Warly conceptually is really cool. He's a challenging character, that much is for sure, and people who say otherwise tend to just be already very experienced at the game. Warly is designed for people with intermediate/semi-advanced skill that want to play the game differently than they might normally. Even though I find Warly frustrating to play right now, I recognize that the character just has the vibes right. Really makes the game feel like it's about not starving again. I like that.

if u dont want him to gain more hunger or stats from a unique dish then whats the point of this downside, we can spam meaty stews so what makes us make a unique dish if we dont even gain anything, if u talking abt the speed buff or buffs in general ya its good but wouldnt be worth it if u gained like 30 hunger unless if the buff it self lasts long and it's noticable 

Edited February 25 by Naifxoxo

[brednas7]

For Warly i feel a lot can be done to make his early to mid game better.
 
- Better chef pouch with 10 slots or a smaller pouch that works like an early/mid game version of Polar Bearger Bin but for dishes and ingredients with 2x slower spoilage and stacks with the original chef pouch effect.

- Warly gaining a buff when he or anyone near Warly eats one of Warly's exclusive dishes. I am thinking about the freshly added luck and make luck effect the odds of getting rare crops/weeds.

- Allowing Warly to remove a single stress point of farm crops per growth stage when watering, adding fertilizer or tending plants to allow Warly to grow giants off season if done perfectly.

- Better ratio for grinding spices and cooking with peppers/garlic/honey/jerky adds the chili/garlic/honey/salt spice to a dish.

[aidancode]

12 hours ago, Naifxoxo said:

if u dont want him to gain more hunger or stats from a unique dish then whats the point of this downside, we can spam meaty stews so what makes us make a unique dish if we dont even gain anything, if u talking abt the speed buff or buffs in general ya its good but wouldnt be worth it if u gained like 30 hunger unless if the buff it self lasts long and it's noticable 

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but it sounds like you want the downside to be made more potent, which I'm not against (though that would make the character less friendly which will be controversial and unlike other skill trees). I'd be okay with that. All I'm saying is if Warly eats a unique dish every meal, he shouldn't starve slower than other characters, since that would invalidate his increased hunger drain.

[Bumber64]

16 hours ago, brednas7 said:

- Allowing Warly to remove a single stress point of farm crops per growth stage when watering, adding fertilizer or tending plants to allow Warly to grow giants off season if done perfectly.

Wormwood is in the corner crying.

[Naifxoxo]

16 hours ago, aidancode said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about but it sounds like you want the downside to be made more potent, which I'm not against (though that would make the character less friendly which will be controversial and unlike other skill trees). I'd be okay with that. All I'm saying is if Warly eats a unique dish every meal, he shouldn't starve slower than other characters, since that would invalidate his increased hunger drain.

i was talking abt the difference between spamming meaty stews or using unique dishes like fistful jam etc , theres some dishes that r useless so i was talking abt if these dishes give warly some benefits, like more sanity or health at least

[aidancode]

1 hour ago, Naifxoxo said:

i was talking abt the difference between spamming meaty stews or using unique dishes like fistful jam etc , theres some dishes that r useless so i was talking abt if these dishes give warly some benefits, like more sanity or health at least

I think the best solution to this problem would be for Klei to do an overhaul to the weaker dishes to buff them by increasing their stats and giving them special effects. And if that were to happen all these problems would honestly probably go away.

[Naifxoxo]

2 hours ago, aidancode said:

I think the best solution to this problem would be for Klei to do an overhaul to the weaker dishes to buff them by increasing their stats and giving them special effects. And if that were to happen all these problems would honestly probably go away.

ya , 

[DegenerateFurry]

7 hours ago, aidancode said:

I think the best solution to this problem would be for Klei to do an overhaul to the weaker dishes to buff them by increasing their stats and giving them special effects. And if that were to happen all these problems would honestly probably go away.

We can hope for something like this, but I doubt it'll ever happen.