Woby perk (Send items to chest/player) Needs Nerf

[Walrusst]

3 hours ago, Thieta said:

Walter's is the only one without a type of cost though - I agree with the previous notions, In ther specific scenario, but the same issue comes up for winona needing fuel and lots of gold to setup her telebrella and machines etc. Very teamplay focused with a cost.

The telebrella is one of the two most extreme versions of this (Between it and watches.)

I rose colored glasses makes wormhole abuse pretty free, where you can even die to the shadows to teleport home to your funny dark firepit for the cost of 1/10th of a bugnet in butterflies, and if one holes is near cactus because you can make wortox look slow with this power. The wizards hat is instant if you aren't solo on the best gatherer character (Funny shadow workers.) 

Both don't take long to set up and well, they are almost free and are practically free given you can have them going 5 minutes in and never need to replace them.

Right clicking in frog hell twice can give you enough souls for a map wide teleport once or twice as wortox (And possibly if you right click four times you can make enough hearts to take half your party with you.)

More importantly, walter and maxwell are the only ones which aren't being transported in the flesh here (Wanda, Wortox, and the Telebrella can even move multiple players!)

Walters costs time (Waiting for the dog,) where as maxwells costs coordination (Telling your teammates to check your chest.)

So comparing these on cost also begs the question of how high quality each of these quality.
Cheap powers to move yourself pretty much only exist on two abilities (Rose glasses/Wortox Teleport, given I'm not going to call walrus tusks + thulecite + purple gems cheap with how starved some worlds can be,) but are so inexpensive they are practically free once you learn basic inputs for that character. Like legitimately even nice wortox can slay hordes of enemies if you make the right overheads in your builds so you can have hundreds a day if you visit your hells to stack up hearts/fill your lanterns.

The only ones that are costly share a common quality: being able to instantly move 6 people through a portal/hearts/a gem watch is a lot more impressive then being able to wait a few minutes for woby to do a job. (And even wortox's heart gets the special mention of being so cheap in autum/spring/summer its farm time is in seconds.)

For walter, you are without a third your kit while you wait for woby to work (Including all gather skills.) Woby here woby there isn't that much of an upgrade over traveling at speed 12/13, using your already free wormholes, etc etc. Meanwhile, working while woby is delivering stuffs about 33% slower (Even if you pay the upfront cost of a beefalo to offset this opportunity cost.) Time is a resource and the opportunity cost of not using a large part of your kit is a cost by proxy. Since you can already wormhole teleport, and move fast as hell to do all this faster without having to work slowly and at low yields.

This isn't to say the ability lacks useful qualities, for being the slowest one of these, you get automatic sorting in return. So its distinct, but not less than or worse than the others because waiting for the dog is a bottleneck that spammable telports lack.  Since good sorting IS a quality worth having.

So being slower then all of the other good hauler characters but 0.01% cheaper but a hell of a lot more more convenient is the only thing it has going for when compared to instant teleports.

[Mysterious box]

6 hours ago, Thieta said:

"once you get the watch" - Spending time and resources to gain access to her tp is the definition of setup...

Yet setting up storage for Woby's skill and making sure it's empty so the transfer is successful isn't?

 

6 hours ago, Thieta said:

Walter's is the only one without a type of cost though - I agree with the previous notions, In ther specific scenario, but the same issue comes up for winona needing fuel and lots of gold to setup her telebrella and machines etc. Very teamplay focused with a cost.

His skill operates on the same logic as Wanda's except unlike Wanda's who can send players, items, and herself between shards Walter can only send items to one specific location on that shard as such his setup cost is lesser in the form of setting up storage and making sure it's empty. A second cost attached is for sending Woby to players as both players need to be holding a compass. If another cost is going to be attached then the ability needs to be improved.

 

6 hours ago, Thieta said:

Wendy has a lot of skills to reduce her costs of mourning glory and her other skills have cost - making gravestone mover, Murder mechanic, Moon dial and moon phase - Both of these characters have setup and cost built into their skill trees -

Where's the cost for her team spirit skills? Even Maxwell has to spend nightmare fuel to panic enemies.

6 hours ago, Thieta said:

Woby doesn't have it for arguably her best skill imo (especially for casuals that don't have shadow/moon unlocked) - for the cost of a chest you can do a ruins rush with barely any gear, Grab the items, send woby back, die and rez in a safe spot, profit - from day 1 - specifically havung access to this day 1 with no prep is the issue... consistently.

This is just silly to me Woby is the fastest mount in the game in what world would someone have to do this instead of just leaving the ruins? There is nothing fast enough to keep up with Woby and it's even easier to ditch mobs via the teleport. Is intentionally playing sub optimally going to be the strat now for ruins runs? Because I never knew leaving the ruins after you made stuff was the hardest part of doing the ruins This is like going Wortox op because you could have another player keep killing themselves to generate him souls.

[SunnySunshine]

No one gonna use this skill anyway, idk why peaple are asking for a nerf :P

15 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I mean, if you're playing solo, it's basically useless. Woby losing a lot of hunger from it after she returns makes sense to me, but losing items would make it completely worthless, so let's not go with that. 

Yeah, this skill only works on multiplayer and even on that mode, u don't really need it. U can just put the itens on Woby's inventory and take it back to the base or give to a player later :/

[Ugur01]

3 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is just silly to me Woby is the fastest mount in the game in what world would someone have to do this instead of just leaving the ruins? There is nothing fast enough to keep up with Woby and it's even easier to ditch mobs via the teleport. Is intentionally playing sub optimally going to be the strat now for ruins runs? Because I never knew leaving the ruins after you made stuff was the hardest part of doing the ruins This is like going Wortox op because you could have another player keep killing themselves to generate him souls.

I agree

Leaving ruins on a mount faster than even the fastest beefalo, or flying slower than a player? I'm sure you could dodge a bishop at that speed. I don't know if it's worth building a resurrection item and a bunch of chests.

[ArcAngela]

The cost is 4 Insight already.

You need to sacrifice Affinity skills, Woby skills, or Slingshot skills if you want it.
It makes sense too, since it's arguably the strongest skill in the Scouting category, so to get it you end up sacrificing strengths in other categories.
It's not "immensely powerful" if it's situational, it fulfills a specific need that as a player you either see it as the most valuable perk for you, or not useful at all.

Comparing this to Winona and Wanda is pretty laughable though, they're nothing alike. They're both mainly about moving themselves, Wanda's teleports are base kit, and Winona can use wormholes that also have "no cost at all" and even then, she's mostly teleporting herself (Not to mention she even gets a revive at no cost).

Walter isn't teleporting and he surely isn't teleporting resources either, every time this skill is used Woby becomes unavailable for the duration and many players taking this skill are likely already using Woby to travel. This skill has limitations, a 4 insight cost and a "cooldown" which is the time it takes Woby to move stuff around and return.

It's not teleporting, it's transporting. Please learn the difference already.

If people can't make another argument that isn't "It's just like <insert another character that does a completely different thing> and they have costs!" then I'm not sure why this nerf suggestion keeps showing up. Apples to oranges.

[Chewabacca]

6 hours ago, mykenception said:

are the changes from the latest Hotfix enough to be considered balance changes for this thread?

OP believes the changes are for balance. The devs have said that they're not.

Also: you know Woby has never dropped her items on Walter's death, right? We would already have access to whatever she's lugging around post-rez.

[Mysterious box]

16 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

Also: you know Woby has never dropped her items on Walter's death, right? We would already have access to whatever she's lugging around post-rez.

I'm going to laugh if a post pops up about this needing a nerf next.

[Chewabacca]

To be very clear: the reason we're all yammering in here isn't because the players of one of the best Krampus-farmers looked at this skill and went "ooh boy I can't wait to build chests back at base and cheat my way to infinite storage with them!" It's because you're digging out a skill that a lot of us consider to be mid, especially in solo, and proclaiming that it's gold. The confusion is what's getting us here.

[Thieta]

1 hour ago, Chewabacca said:

It's because you're digging out a skill that a lot of us consider to be mid, especially in solo, and proclaiming that it's gold. The confusion is what's getting us here.

 

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Where's the cost for her team spirit skills? Even Maxwell has to spend nightmare fuel to panic enemies.

12 hours ago, Thieta said:

Strawman argument tbh

 

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

This is just silly to me Woby is the fastest mount in the game in what world would someone have to do this instead of just leaving the ruins? There is nothing fast enough to keep up with Woby and it's even easier to ditch mobs via the teleport.

As I stated multiple times this is me looking at the skill through the lens of both new players and veteran players - Especially for new players, Who don't have access to lunar/shadow skills - Walter is able to ignore a core mechanic of the game - Before he sent woby and she came back 5 seconds later regardless of distance which was crazy, Now the devs made it have a cost - If you send woby away to store items then you are forgoing your mount + Every other benefit woby comes with. Definitely a convience thing now and I can see how a lot of people wouldn't pick the skill - Since if you have lunar/shadow you can run back yourself, drop the items off, then go back to where you was - All faster than woby could do a single trip. This post was made before the dev update, Them making her have a cooldown (Travel time) is enough to prevent the skill from being powerful.

 

2 hours ago, ArcAngela said:

If people can't make another argument that isn't "It's just like <insert another character that does a completely different thing> and they have costs!" then I'm not sure why this nerf suggestion keeps showing up. Apples to oranges.

My original post was in a different forum topic that got closed - It was more on how the skill breaks the game and ruins a core aspect of dst - From day 1 - Which no other character could do except walter.

 

6 hours ago, Mysterious box said:

Yet setting up storage for Woby's skill and making sure it's empty so the transfer is successful isn't?

 

No, It isn't. It's not changing your gameplay in anyway - You aren't building a sisturn, Setting up graves, Making goggles, Telebrella, Watches, Generators, etc. You are just playing the game normally and you have access to it.

 

8 hours ago, Walrusst said:

Walters costs time (Waiting for the dog,)

Yes - This post was made before the dev update, I have no problem with the woby skill anymore.

[Walrusst]

Just now, Thieta said:

Yes - This post was made before the dev update, I have no problem with the woby skill anymore.

It was honestly a case of walters other ways of instantly moving things were strong enough that the long distance version of the skill being bugged i hadn't noticed simply because I usually set up near a good wormhole as walter so 80% of my resources moved instantly anyhow.

[Thieta]

12 hours ago, Chewabacca said:

Buddy, you do realize that there was already a delay of about 30 seconds (give or take, not precisely timed) and that the update didn't lengthen it by a huge amount (I would say around 40 seconds, scaling larger with distance of course)?

Also, I'm still actually curious to hear how this of all the skills on the tree is "immensely powerful". You've posted enough about it that I believe you genuinely think this is powerful but I still can't make heads or tails of it.

The fact that Walter can go over and farm asmuch as he wants from lunar island for example - Send woby back with the loot, Repeat till he has asmuch moon glass that will fit in the chest etc - Same thing with really anything - It was not a 30 second wait time before, I've tested it out both in the beta and I've seen others share clips of them using the skill here - it's about 5 seconds - I have not tried the new update version of it though, But now it's in a spot where sending her away will actually be costly - If you send woby away you lose access to all her other benefits for a lengthy amount of time, Scaling with distance. I think that is fine.

 

8 hours ago, Debruh said:

rganizing them. Getting rid of useless stuff instead of keeping it to save on inventory before you go out and explore is the setup. You're going to explore so you plan ahead and organize your chests to make sure Woby can have enough space to dump stuff.

ngl this is just nonsensical

[Chewabacca]

4 minutes ago, Thieta said:

The fact that Walter can go over and farm asmuch as he wants from lunar island for example - Send woby back with the loot, Repeat till he has asmuch moon glass that will fit in the chest etc - Same thing with really anything - It was not a 30 second wait time before, I've tested it out both in the beta and I've seen others share clips of them using the skill here - it's about 5 seconds - I have not tried the new update version of it though, But now it's in a spot where sending her away will actually be costly - If you send woby away you lose access to all her other benefits for a lengthy amount of time, Scaling with distance. I think that is fine.

 

ngl this is just nonsensical

...Could we not already stick that moon glass into Woby or our own personal inventory? How is this more powerful?

Also, don't know how to edit this to quote you accusing me of strawmanning you, but wanted to address that as well: for that to be a strawman, it would have to be a misrepresentation of your argument. As far as I understand it, your argument is that this skill is hugely powerful because it enables Walter to have infinite inventory space by building lots of chests. If it's not, please explain what it is.

[Thieta]

3 minutes ago, Chewabacca said:

...Could we not already stick that moon glass into Woby or our own personal inventory? How is this more powerful?

Man I am not gonna go through and explicitly explain quite literally every step and everything - Use your head for a moment and think on how it could be utilized, Holy...

[Mysterious box]

13 minutes ago, Thieta said:

Strawman argument tbh

Explain is it not a ability without a cost? Is that not the basis of the entire conversation does her panic ability use some resource I'm not aware of?

13 minutes ago, Thieta said:

As I stated multiple times this is me looking at the skill through the lens of both new players and veteran players - Especially for new players, Who don't have access to lunar/shadow skills - Walter is able to ignore a core mechanic of the game - Before he sent woby and she came back 5 seconds later regardless of distance which was crazy, Now the devs made it have a cost - If you send woby away to store items then you are forgoing your mount + Every other benefit woby comes with. Definitely a convience thing now and I can see how a lot of people wouldn't pick the skill - Since if you have lunar/shadow you can run back yourself, drop the items off, then go back to where you was - All faster than woby could do a single trip. This post was made before the dev update, Them making her have a cooldown (Travel time) is enough to prevent the skill from being powerful.

Why should the devs go out of their way to punish newer players? Even then without the shadow alignment Woby still has 2 speed boosting skills and a dash dodge which still puts her as the fastest mount in the game.

Walter was not bypassing any core feature of the game he's investing in storage and keeping it organized enough so that Woby has a place to drop off the items setting up the location is the invest cost of the skill which is fair because he isn't teleporting like Wanda, Winona, or Wortox as sending items is not and will never be as powerful as sending yourself.

13 minutes ago, Thieta said:

No, It isn't. It's not changing your gameplay in anyway - You aren't building a sisturn, Setting up graves, Making goggles, Telebrella, Watches, Generators, etc. You are just playing the game normally and you have access to it.

Lets use Wanda as a example then how is Wanda's gameplay changing? Was she not going to hunt mac tusks if she couldn't teleport? Was she not going to gather gold or make time pieces? How was that any different from Walter building chests, fridges, backpacks and the like? Because it required a seasonal mob's drop?

This isn't really meant as a call out or anything I just disagree with the conclusions reached in these replies btw.

[Chewabacca]

Just now, Thieta said:

Man I am not gonna go through and explicitly explain quite literally every step and everything - Use your head for a moment and think on how it could be utilized, Holy...

I am using my head. You're just taking for granted that your point is so obvious that you don't need to explain it. It's not.

[kroban]

I think its fine, now Woby takes a lot of time to drop the items, during that time you don't have her as a mount or to assist you.

But if it were to get nerfed perhaps she could lose a lot of hunger points when shes delivering items, probably even the entire bar depending on the distance.