wortox The Wortox skill tree. Why don't I like it

[IDreamerI]

I will try to explain briefly and hopefully clearly why I, and not only I, do not like the Wortox skill tree.

Everything is learned by comparison, so first I'll tell you what Wendy and Walter added to the skill tree, briefly and perhaps dryly, but still it will be enough to understand why the wortox skill tree is bad.

Wendy- Before the advent of skills, she was able to do the following:

1)Interacting with little ghosts, she received ghostly flowers.

2)With the help of ghostly flowers and other ingredients, she could make 6 different potions that buffed the ghost sister.

3)the opportunity to make an urn that accelerated the growth of the sister's ghost level

4)From the very beginning, received a flower that summons a ghost sister who can be configured into aggressive behavior and calm behavior (Attack or defense)

With the help of the skill tree, she can now do this:

1)Get more ghost colors for your new crafts(Faster pharma=More features=more fun)

2)3 new Potions (New buffs=new features=new gaming experience)

3)The ability to produce two to three times as many potions using the initial cost of making 1 potion (allows you not to be afraid to waste a potion = more fun from fighting)

4)The ability to create a basket in which you can put potions and ghostly flowers(Allows you to carry all the potions with you = the ability to adapt to a specific situation = you are ready for anything)

5)Using skills, you can enhance the properties of the sister urn.(Gives buffs.(As for me, the weak side of the skill tree))

6)You can create an altar with which your companions can be resurrected and you can be in a ghostly state.(This is an alternative to stuffed meat, only cheaper.The main advantage is that in order to resurrect someone, you don't have to interact with a dead friend.)

7)You can create a Wreath of ghostly flowers with which you can drink the potions you have created, thereby receiving unique buffs.(It's a cool skill that opens up new game possibilities, new experiences, and alternative uses for your potions.)

8)You can create new graves and also bring them wherever you need them.(It allows you to create a place where it will be easier for you to get ghostly flowers (and more), new decorations, and make fun of your friends.)

9)To resurrect butterflies(lol)(Allows you to enhance the shadow side of the ghost sister more often.)

10)You have new commands that your ghost sister can execute (Run away, scare, attack a certain area and disturb)

11)You have the opportunity to turn your ghost sister into a shadow version with the mechanics of strengthening from killing creatures in the inventory (which is a pain in the ass) or into a gestalt (huge damage on a single target), which significantly changes the gameplay and the gaming experience as a whole.(And almost all of these advantages can be obtained at the very beginning of the game.)

That's not bad, the character's gaming experience has almost tripled.And if not all, then almost all of her skills are not only useful, but also expand or change the gaming experience.

Walter-Before the advent of skills, he was able to do the following:

1)From the very beginning, he gets a slingshot (a long-range weapon), Woby (Chester-Beefalo) and a unique hat.

2)The ability to create 7 different projectiles for a slingshot

3)The opportunity to create a unique portable tent

4)He is able to tell stories around the campfire, and also has a unique mechanic based on losing his mind from the damage he receives.But he doesn't lose his mind from the auras of monsters.

With the help of the skill tree, he can now do this:

1)He can now create 10 new unique ammo(A variety of ammo = more situations to adjust to = more gaming experience)

2)The ability to create an ammunition pouch(space saving and the ability to carry different ammunition with you)

3)Creates more ammunition using the same amount of resources(It allows you not to worry about running out of resources.)

4)He can now enhance the slingshot with various modules that can speed up the attack, increase the range, or use the attachment to add a special attack method.(this expands the game experience and makes you stronger, most of the modifications can be made almost at the beginning of the game.)

5)Now he can create a rope cheaper,strengthen his special hat.(a rather weak side of the skill tree)

6)He can create a new butterfly healing bandage and also enhances all the medicine he uses by 50%(a good skill that allows you to restore health faster, which opens up a new method of treatment and allows you to save resources a little.)

7)You can create a unique portable campfire.(the opportunity to save resources , decor)

8)You can cook treats for Woby and install dryers on her back.(The ability to save food when feeding Woby,drying all the meat.Cool skills.)

9)Now you have the opportunity to order Woby delivery of things to a given point.(This allows you to quickly deliver resources to a specified location, which can help both quickly develop a database and quickly deliver the necessary resources.)

10)You have the opportunity to speed up Woby, order to collect things on the floor, collect additional plant resources and order to help to extract resources.(more interactions with Woby, which in one way or another improve the gaming experience and provide more opportunities.)

11)You have the opportunity to tilt Woby to the shadow or moon side, which will allow her to teleport (shadow) or become even faster (moon).(Note that you get these features from the very beginning of the game.)

Wow, and again we've almost tripled the gameplay. Almost all the skills turned out to be interesting, useful, and gameplay-changing.

I'm sorry for dryly copying the skill description (it made me feel uncomfortable)but this is necessary for comparison.

And here is the culprit of the celebration, because of which my soul is torn with anger and lost potential.

WORTOX-Before the advent of skills, he was able to do the following:

1)He appears with soul (which is his main mechanic).He will receive them when killing live enemies.

2)He can feed on souls, heal with souls, and teleport.(By the way, he was only able to teleport using the map after the librarian's update, he couldn't do that before this update (gee))

3)He, like Webber, is disliked by neutral mobs(Not warm, it's not cold) 

With the help of the skill tree, he can now do this:

1)He can create a special heart from souls, with which HE can resurrect his partner by GIVING him a heart, and with the help of the heart, the partners can teleport to YOU.(on paper, it's a good skill for teamwork, but in practice...You and only you can heal your allies with this heart. You need to find and come to the ghost and give him a tailed heart to resurrect him with a penalty to health, when you are a ghost with a heart, you can not interact on the floor in any way, which greatly limits the style of the game, you can only teleport to the one who created this heart. As a result, the situation turns out like with The Lazy Deserter, as if things are good, but no one He won't use it, and his heart is also spoiling.)

2)With the help of the skill, you can accelerate the flight of the soul to you, the radius of the soul and enhance the healing of souls.(Useless fill-in skills that do nothing affect the gameplay without bringing anything new, and since a Wortox can have a huge number of souls and basic healing, even with a large number of players, they are still more than enough.)(Horror)

3)You will be able to accelerate yourself with the help of souls (running speed), you will be able to teleport more often.(Both by card and without a card)(No kidding, good skills)

4)You have a special interaction with the flute.(Frankly weak skills, which, although they can be taken, have little effect on the gaming experience without contributing anything interesting that Wortox could have done himself without these skills)(It's not fun)

5)You can craft a Bag (melee weapon) and a vessel for souls.You can slightly strengthen them with skills.(The bag is a terrible weapon with a terrible inventory damage boost system.It's just a club (spear) that doesn't even have special attacks and, moreover, special synergy with skills (For example, a lightning spear has damage, a special attack, increased damage to wet enemies, it can also be enhanced by adding related statics.Even a regular slingshot is better.A bomb, not a weapon).(A vessel for the soul is just a necessity (support) (You can't imagine how I burned with envy when Willow can carry a million coals without any vessels and conjure with their help.Wortox and Willow have almost the same mechanics of extracting the resource they need.At the same time, Wortox feels so castrated, teleportation is cool, but you won't be satisfied with that alone, although he can eat and be treated with souls, but it's not magic, it's consumables)

6)The souls you create can take damage.(A cool idea, a failed implementation (not magic. It's a pity))

7)You can create a bait that will attract enemies and can also cause damage to them.(It's a good skill, but in order for it to become useful, you need to gain a million unnecessary skills, in principle, as with most skills in general)

8)You have the opportunity to change the attitude of neutral mobs towards you.(a terrible realization of the worldview, a change in the influence of numbers from souls does not bring any changes in gameplay and a positive experience in the game.Not fun)

9)The moon side completely absorbs damage when wearing moon armor (1-2 hits), and the shadow side deals additional damage after teleportation (1-2 hits) using ONLY the shadow scythe.(Didn't you notice the catch?I'll explain now.You literally have to complete the game (kill the last moon or shadow boss), after which you can use your moon or shadow skills using the items from the end game.At the very beginning, you won't get anything: no new magic, no new things to create, no interaction with your skills and souls.Nothing.)

Let's summarize the results.They added 3 new items to create, 2 of which are complete garbage and 1 is a necessity.Skills that change the effects of garbage souls (garbage filling skills are not useful in any way)The skills of the moon and shadow are useless, do not introduce anything new and are things that all other characters can craft, Wortox does not have any new individual abilities, Almost all skills do not seem to synergize with each other.Nobody needs a flute.The Good and Evil Wortox are not much different, and they do not interact with other skills.

I am very happy for Wendy and especially for Walter, they have added a lot of interesting and individual things, almost all of their skills fit into their style or are useful at least.

I am VERY unhappy with Wortox's skills.I hope they come to their senses and change his skills.If not, I don't want them to release his skill tree, let him be what he is for now.This will at least give Klei more time to think over his skills.Bravo Klei hold the bar BRAVO!!!!

Thanks for your attention!I finally got it out, and I felt a lot better (ahahahahah).Sorry for my English!

[Jakepeng99]

Only thing i dislike about Wortox is his affinities. 

[ApoIIo]

I think affinities should be two-step, with the first perk of each being pre-rifts and the second one can have something to do with rift gear. I really enjoy the reaper skill myself, but I found the lunar affinity bland in gameplay. It does the exact same thing as using that soul echo to teleport, with the only bonus being you put less work into dodging (you don't time the click, so you basically do less gameplay, wooo) and you get to sneak one more hit in. ZZZzzzz... 

You could easily make the skill tree more compact elsewhere to compensate for the full affinity costing 2 skill points. Almost every branch of the tree has unremarkable minor buffs that could definitely be merged together, but mainly soul bastion and pierce  are the most merge-able. Telltale heart is perhaps the only tree where the (only) middle step does something significant.

[Crimson Hollow]

yep, still has a problem with character development and upper limit... And sometimes inventory issues.

[Hollow soul 3]

In my opinion, twintale 2 is okay, but one is closer to filler. You're trading 200 health for 50 instead of 20. Pretty high cost for some spider glands and grass. Especially compared to Wanda's clock revive.

Almost every branch has some kind of filler. I count twintale 1, the faster souls, cloudy in neutral, the extra damage based on souls really sucks to let us hold onto all the souls we want, but then tell us not to use them. Kind of feels like it missed the point. Like thanks for these 100 souls I shouldn't use. Not like it was a pain to get those jars or anything. The decoy and the soul spear have some filter. Only the affinities (just damage number changes with conditions) and the teleporting branch don't have filler.

[IDreamerI]

Okay, I'll shorten the story a bit and try to focus your attention on what I was trying to do initially.

We have 15 experience points.By spending skill points in the Wendy or Walter tree, we get some advantages (mostly) from the start.As an example, To open the Woby skill, we spend 4 skill points to deliver things to a certain point-(for example -1.creating a butterfly bandage and +50% effectiveness of medicine, 2.Dryers, 3.Creating cookies, 4.the skill itself)We spent 4 skills and got 4 different opportunities in the game, or Wendy, spending 3 skill points (1. Raising butterflies, 2. Creating a wreath, 3. Creating a grave with which you can resurrect) gets the opportunity to interact with the shadow sister (killing and immediately by resurrecting butterflies), gets the opportunity to drink 7 different potions and gets the opportunity to resurrect himself and others.At the same time, to make the tailed heart skill useful, you need to spend 5 skills on just one item (2 of which will be completely unnecessary, as an example, a skill for the speed of flight of souls to you and the radius of healing from the soul, in the game, these changes will not play any role because you always fight close to the enemy and get souls almost instantly, and the healing radius is absolutely not noticed and does not play a decisive role in healing) For these 5 skills, you get 1 item that is objectively worse than an ordinary heart, which deteriorates, which ghosts cannot use, and because of which you are obliged to play only on the Wortox because this tailed heart is attached only to you and to no one else, It is not beneficial to use it for the sake of healing, since it is more economical to throw out a certain number of souls in place of 10, as it still takes up a lot of space.The same applies to Wortox's combat backpack, in order for it to become more or less useful, you need to spend 3 skill points.I mean, by spending 5 points on tricks, we get 1 opportunity to diversify the game in some way. I want to give us more opportunities to play our character in an interesting way by spending skill points.You need to play games and enjoy them, not suffer from unnecessary complications.+Klei got lazy, it seems haahha

Thanks for your attention!I'm sorry for my English.

[Walrusst]

The decoy and soul pierces damage buffs are minimal from the soul jar, I still kill most enemies with the teleport bomb as nice wortox becuase its cheap and relevant enough to farm all of frog hell.
There are five skills I raise my eyebrows on (Affinities, and the second level skills for soul attraction/decoy,) but they are offset by big ticket skills which make considerable improvements to the character.

Cloudy carmines requires hyper specific plans to work properly (Using it to aggro enemies on each other after sleeping them, for example,) but the other panflute skills I've learned to adore because of how well they integrate into naval rushing since indefinite naval survival is no joke.

So its like a few really nice main courses that makes me raise my eyebrows once a build at some minor filler. Especially once the knapsacks bug net functionality becomes a thing (If klei doesn't reconsider it.)

[Dingle]

14 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

The decoy and soul pierces damage buffs are minimal from the soul jar, I still kill most enemies with the teleport bomb as nice wortox becuase its cheap and relevant enough to farm all of frog hell.
There are five skills I raise my eyebrows on (Affinities, and the second level skills for soul attraction/decoy,) but they are offset by big ticket skills which make considerable improvements to the character.

Cloudy carmines requires hyper specific plans to work properly (Using it to aggro enemies on each other after sleeping them, for example,) but the other panflute skills I've learned to adore because of how well they integrate into naval rushing since indefinite naval survival is no joke.

So its like a few really nice main courses that makes me raise my eyebrows once a build at some minor filler. Especially once the knapsacks bug net functionality becomes a thing (If klei doesn't reconsider it.)

My problem is that at least a couple of the "fillers" are actively detrimental.

Main ones that come to mind are Reaching Souls 2 and Soul Decoy 2.

SOUL DECOY 2: I don't want decoys to explode slower, but must pick it. Even ignoring this, having souls last longer if they're not targeted doesnt seem to have any use. So at best, its a filler that doesn't really do anything.

REACHING 2: Having souls fly to you faster is actively negative, as it makes overloading easier. Especially on a Nice build. And the only time I ever need to get this is in a Nice build. It also makes Soul Pierce worse, as an aside.

[Walrusst]

3 minutes ago, Dingle said:

want decoys to explode slower, but must pick it

Sort of offset by using the decoy as a dodge but its probably a deliberate donwnside of the decoy bombs that you can't just free aim them on un-agrro'd enemie because of the sheer damage they do.

[Radicaljoe]

My issue is that the tree has filler at all.
Now, normally fine, typically filler skills are referred to as "stepping stone" skills because they add a minor upside and are an artificial way to make the more powerful skills expensive.
However, for Wortox stepping stones are more impactful, and even sometimes detrimental. 
Not only are you spending more skill points for the skill you want at the end of a branch, you're also heavily offsetting your scale, because even though something like longer lifespan decoys does nothing for Wortox, it does do something for the scale. Which, in a tree that has a whole idea about "balancing the scale" makes that hard when you're throwing empty skillpoint weight on it.

[Hollow soul 3]

6 minutes ago, Radicaljoe said:

My issue is that the tree has filler at all.
Now, normally fine, typically filler skills are referred to as "stepping stone" skills because they add a minor upside and are an artificial way to make the more powerful skills expensive.
However, for Wortox stepping stones are more impactful, and even sometimes detrimental. 
Not only are you spending more skill points for the skill you want at the end of a branch, you're also heavily offsetting your scale, because even though something like longer lifespan decoys does nothing for Wortox, it does do something for the scale. Which, in a tree that has a whole idea about "balancing the scale" makes that hard when you're throwing empty skillpoint weight on it.

And it's on every single branch

[Dingle]

18 minutes ago, Walrusst said:

Sort of offset by using the decoy as a dodge but its probably a deliberate donwnside of the decoy bombs that you can't just free aim them on un-agrro'd enemie because of the sheer damage they do.

Maaaybe... not sure if that's the rationale.

If so, it kind of feels bitter to pick a perk that exists solely to nerf the perk right above it!

No wait... just remembered that soul decoy doesn't even work on unaggroed enemies!

Example: If chester is getting murdered by killer bees, you can't hurt those bees with soul decoy.

Oh, and also remembered you can just do more decoys by jar-snapping, anyway. So your theory doesn't make sense after thinking about it a bit.

[Echsrick]

wortox realy needs more work be done with

[Fyffnuft]

wortox needs a big rework