Lunar Swindle of Wortox has same problem as old CursedVex - it is overpower for pre-rift but useless for post-rift.

[Steorra]

I was noticed that the Lunar Swindle help almost nothing when you engage a planar mob who have knockback ability. At the same time, Lunar Swindle makes you being simply invisible to pre-rift bosses who have no minions. This is quite same as Wendy's old CursedVex problem.

Since Lunar Swindle was locked behind Lunar Rift, I think this skill should be useful for post-rift combat. At the same time, it make no sence to create a god mode for pre-rift by rift gear.

I hope Lunar Swindle could have a change - make it brings knockback immunity for per soul echo, but have no damage immunity. After this change, some buff or rework might be needed for it.

[Koomin]

The skill should just be changed into something else in my opinion, but they seem to not want to do that.  It's so boring that it means that no one cares that it is too strong, because it is so boring that no one chooses it.  

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Koomin said:

The skill should just be changed into something else in my opinion, but they seem to not want to do that.  It's so boring that it means that no one cares that it is too strong, because it is so boring that no one chooses it.  

I still believe it a little that Wortox's thing would comes just as same sa Walter's rework

[salty_cookie]

I always found stacking bone armor fun and exciting gameplay. I love holding f and turning any boss into an afk experience. Thanks to the new lunar swindler™ technology from Voxola I can do this exciting gameplay while also wearing the supperior lunar alligned armor. Thanks Robert Wagstaff for this great gift.

(I intend this as a joke)

[Mr. Furman]

When was the last update on Wortox again? I'm losing track already

[Steorra]

13 minutes ago, salty_cookie said:

I always found stacking bone armor fun and exciting gameplay. I love holding f and turning any boss into an afk experience. Thanks to the new lunar swindler™ technology from Voxola I can do this exciting gameplay while also wearing the supperior lunar alligned armor. Thanks Robert Wagstaff for this great gift.

The point is, 2 BoneArmor are already enough for most scenarios.

And you could go try it - Lunar Swindle + Bone Armor did gave you god mode for pre-rift bosses, but that is not an AFK gameplay. Double switch the BoneArmor + trigger the Lunar swindle is annoying I have to say.

In fact, you would only want one of them (lunar swindle or BoneArmor set). If a top affinity skill only brings a copy for what you could easily have once you unlock the affinity, what the meaning of it?

[asdsaax]

4 minutes ago, Koomin said:

The skill should just be changed into something else in my opinion, but they seem to not want to do that.  It's so boring that it means that no one cares that it is too strong, because it is so boring that no one chooses it.  

Since beta released I always thought that Lunar Swindler is a placeholder for actual affinity skill that is "yet to come"
because it's so uninteractive and doesn't provide any versatility

The tree is already very 1 dimensional by having branches that are explicitly multiplayer and singleplayer oriented
and I'm stressing over affinity skill because it will define the tree as either very good or just acceptable with some perks to ignore

[DinsdaleP]

I'm game with the actual effects of Lunar Swindler, it has it's place. If someone just wants to endlessly hop around the map and be essentially invincible against bosses, why not? They have certainly earned it with the CC kill.

The bigger problem is how badly it integrates with the rest of Wortox's kit. With Lunar Swindler, you'd probably want to be using Enlightened Crown along with a Brightshade Armor and Sword, except Wortox can't regain sanity so easily for that to work, in fact, he is by far the worst character in that department. By going lunar and rushing CC, you'll also lose out on infinite storage for the best sanity food for him (Icker Preserve for Soothing Tea, which restore 37.5 sanity, since it happens over time, but has a very short spoilage time), and instead have to rely on Banana Shakes and Jelly Salads, both of which are vastly inferior. Lunar gear also takes a painfully long time to get, since you need to open the rifts THEN wait an extra 15 or so days for Deadly Brightshades to ever spawn.

Compare and contrast it to his shadow kit: Kill AG, Shadow Pieces, Nightmare Werepig and AFW (much faster than going for CC), open rifts, wait 5 days, kill the Ink Blight Trio, dupe Dark Tatters endlessly with green gems (if you want to be really cool, do another Shadow Pieces kill and dupe the saddle), and you've got everything you need. Void Cowl, Shadow Reaper, Bone Armor, and probably endless repair kits for it, by something like day 35-45, at a time when the lunar rifts haven't even opened yet. It also works a lot better, you still got Bone Armor to eat the occasional hit, but you can jump around and double damage endlessly.

tl;dr: I don't feel like Lunar Swindler is the problem itself, but just about everything around it - none of it plays nice with Wortox.

[Y0sH]

2 hours ago, Mr. Furman said:

When was the last update on Wortox again? I'm losing track already

Sometime last year if I'm not mistaken. The Skilltree has alot of filler and if the affinities could be more impactful and not locked behind specific gear would put Wortox in a better light.

[Debruh]

3 minutes ago, Y0sH said:

if the affinities could be more impactful and not locked behind specific gear would put Wortox in a better light.

I think inspiration should be taken from the Walter skill tree. Where the woby affinities are available for all of the game, making the affinities actually kinda define your gameplay a bit. And his slingshot affinities are late game, making the affinities provide you with bonuses once you defeat their respective boss 

Wendy's tree also has this. Though, is harmed by the early game part being locked behind the late game part and not being as accessible or present as Woby's.

Amazing example are also Woodie's and Willow's.

[Dingle]

29 minutes ago, DinsdaleP said:

I'm game with the actual effects of Lunar Swindler, it has it's place. If someone just wants to endlessly hop around the map and be essentially invincible against bosses, why not? They have certainly earned it with the CC kill.

The bigger problem is how badly it integrates with the rest of Wortox's kit. With Lunar Swindler, you'd probably want to be using Enlightened Crown along with a Brightshade Armor and Sword, except Wortox can't regain sanity so easily for that to work, in fact, he is by far the worst character in that department. By going lunar and rushing CC, you'll also lose out on infinite storage for the best sanity food for him (Icker Preserve for Soothing Tea, which restore 37.5 sanity, since it happens over time, but has a very short spoilage time), and instead have to rely on Banana Shakes and Jelly Salads, both of which are vastly inferior. Lunar gear also takes a painfully long time to get, since you need to open the rifts THEN wait an extra 15 or so days for Deadly Brightshades to ever spawn.

Compare and contrast it to his shadow kit: Kill AG, Shadow Pieces, Nightmare Werepig and AFW (much faster than going for CC), open rifts, wait 5 days, kill the Ink Blight Trio, dupe Dark Tatters endlessly with green gems (if you want to be really cool, do another Shadow Pieces kill and dupe the saddle), and you've got everything you need. Void Cowl, Shadow Reaper, Bone Armor, and probably endless repair kits for it, by something like day 35-45, at a time when the lunar rifts haven't even opened yet. It also works a lot better, you still got Bone Armor to eat the occasional hit, but you can jump around and double damage endlessly.

tl;dr: I don't feel like Lunar Swindler is the problem itself, but just about everything around it - none of it plays nice with Wortox.

Partial aside, the 15 day timer for Brightshades showing up always really annoyed me.

[WilsonHiggs]

2 hours ago, salty_cookie said:

fun and exciting

 

2 hours ago, salty_cookie said:

afk experience

Pick one

[Hollow soul 3]

3 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

 

Pick one

They were being sarcastic.

[salty_cookie]

12 minutes ago, WilsonHiggs said:

Pick one

I intended it to be a joke on how bland the skill is. The joke is that I describe the gameplay of hold f as fun and exciting. I could have worded it better.

[DinsdaleP]

8 hours ago, Steorra said:

make it brings knockback immunity for per soul echo, but have no damage immunity

The problem with that is you can easily do that already, with an infinitely farmable item: Marble Suits, which have great synergy with Wortox already. For example, against Armored Bearger, you can easily equip a Marble Suit with a Brightshade Helm and Sword, and completely ignore both damage and knockbacks.

Only problem is, I'm pretty sure they work almost as well with shadow alignment...