Just because a character is popular doesn't mean the character is strong

[litfuu]

在我近 3,000 小时的游戏时间里，我确实遇到了很多 Wendy's 的玩家，但他们中的许多人甚至从未去过洞穴，更不用说挑战各种 Boss，甚至体验过整个游戏。

Wendy 轻松应对 200 生命值以下的怪物群的能力可能导致许多新手选择她。但除此之外，优点不多，甚至还有很多不便，打怪的时候是躲不开的，因为如果你躲开了，就意味着阿比盖尔会受伤。

我觉得像这样的角色得到和沃尔夫冈一样的弱技能树是非常不合理的，希望每个角色都能得到一定的使用量，百花齐放是好的。但这不应该通过减少现有的流行角色扮演者群体来实现。

我不是 Wendy 游戏玩家，但我不希望 Wendy 成为下一个 Wigford

[litfuu]

In my nearly 3,000 hours of playing time, I did meet a lot of Wendy's players, but many of them had never even been to a cave, let alone challenged various bosses, or even experienced the entire game.

Wendy's ability to tackle monster swarms below 200 health with ease may have led many newbies to choose her. But other than that, there are few advantages, and even a lot of inconvenience, when fighting monsters can not dodge, because if you dodge, it means Abigail will be hurt.

I think it's very unreasonable for a character like that to get the same weak skill tree as Wolfgang, and it's good to want every character to get a certain amount of usage, a hundred flowers bloom. But it shouldn't be done by reducing the existing pool of popular roleplayers.

I'm not a Wendy gamer, but I don't want Wendy to be the next Wigford

[Lee Sy]

温蒂只需要换上美美的皮肤，在基地里翻冰箱找东西吃就够了。

[Catuna_]

These "Wendy is strong!!!" "Wendy is weak!!!" posts genuinely do nothing but clutter the forums and redirect attention away from giving away feedback and hinder klei's ability to gather genuine feedback
I think that it'd be much more productive if both parties just focused on what would be most fun for wendy, and worry about balance later
It's better to have a fun character than a balanced one

[litfuu]

Quote

 

I don't know who said Wendy was strong, but I don't think anyone who played Wendy would think Wendy was strong.

The result now is that even after all these rounds of changes, Wendy is still weak and not very interesting, there are other people on the forum who have given good suggestions and ideas, but they have not been adopted, and even some of Wendy's abilities are still being weakened

Quote

27 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

这些“Wendy 很坚强!!”“Wendy is weak!!”的帖子真的什么也没做，只会让论坛变得混乱，将注意力从提供反馈上转移开，并阻碍 klei 收集真实反馈
的能力 我认为如果双方都只专注于对 Wendy 来说最有趣的事情，并在以后
担心平衡，那会更有效率 拥有一个有趣的角色比一个平衡的角色要好

 

I don't know who said Wendy was strong, but I don't think anyone who played Wendy would think Wendy was strong.

The result now is that even after all these rounds of changes, Wendy is still weak and not very interesting, there are other people on the forum who have given good suggestions and ideas, but they have not been adopted, and even some of Wendy's abilities are still being weakened

[WANZUN]

Wendy's intensity is almost enough, and the degree of interest is quite limited, all the old mechanisms, night vision, acceleration, anti-injury, blood volume recovery, meat statues, lack of something interesting. I mentioned before that the idea of consumption, mourning, glory and sending tombstones is not even considered. All I can think of is to make mourning glory more useful, and to upgrade the flowers that store Abi, bi can temporarily parasitize on some weapons, such as parasitic on Shadow Sword, A bi can talk, parasitic on bright eggplant sword, weapons have a small range of aoe attributes, and maybe more, I am not an experienced Wendy player, but Wendy's content is obviously not satisfactory.

Wigford的技能树真不行，到现在禁止被提起，一种是她的开发者是个高层，一种可能是她已经被提上日程

[renamoe]

Wigfrid: What? Who's talking about me?

[litfuu]

14 hours ago, WANZUN said:

Wendy 的强度差不多够了，兴趣程度相当有限，所有的老机制，夜视、加速、抗伤、血容量恢复、肉像，缺少一些有趣的东西。我之前提到过，消费、哀悼、荣耀和送墓碑的想法甚至都没有被考虑过。我能想到的就是让丧气荣耀更有用，升级储存阿比的花，bi可以暂时寄生在一些武器上，比如寄生在暗影剑上，阿bi会说话，寄生在光明茄子剑上，武器的范围范围很小，也许更多，我不是一个有经验的温蒂玩家， 但 Wendy 的内容显然不尽如人意。

Wigford的技能树真不行，到现在禁止被提起，一种是她的开发者是个高层，一种可能是她已经被提上日程

I agree that Wendy is not very interesting, and there are indeed many people who have no desire to play after learning about Wendy's skill tree.

But I don't see the strength of Wendy's current abilities, and using them requires a precious head gear bar, which makes them worthless. It's amazing how a skill tree like this can be nerfed. This makes me think that designers will reject good design for fear of Wendy being too strong.

[IAmAFurrz]

2 hours ago, litfuu said:

I don't see the strength of Wendy's current abilities

theyre really useful, all of them help the sisters massively and made me love playin wendy now

[litfuu]

29 分钟前， IAmAFurrz 说：

他们真的很有用，他们都极大地帮助了姐妹们，让我现在爱上了 Playin Wendy

如果大多数人都觉得它们有用并喜欢当前的 Wendy's Skill Tree，那就太好了，而且不会有那么多争论

32 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

他们真的很有用，他们都极大地帮助了姐妹们，让我现在爱上了 Playin Wendy

It would be great if most people found them useful and liked the current Wendy's Skill Tree, and there wouldn't be so much debate

[Steorra]

The point is not only the popularity.

For different playstyle, it's like this:

Newcomers

- Wendy is strong.

Casual / Average players (who could manage most boss combat by Wilson easily, but can't or don't want to manage Abby since it's inconvenient and tiring.)

- Wendy is weak even than Wilson, Beefalo is strong than Wilson.

Hardcore players / veteran Wendy main

- Wendy is strong enough for what their needed. (Mostly is for entertainment of skill expressing)

I hope when devs considering about the balance, they could considering the majority opinions. But nit the minority.

[WANZUN]

这玩意不好评判，国内玩家还觉得温蒂dps应该超过大力士，还有月亮ab应该能打影怪，我承认是合理设定但是影怪血量低，几乎是秒杀，没必要要san值这个选项

[IAmAFurrz]

7 minutes ago, Steorra said:

who could manage most boss combat by Wilson easily, but can't or don't want to manage Abby since it's inconvenient and tiring

then they should learn to play the character  or not play wendy at all

[Steorra]

8 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

then they should learn to play the character  or not play wendy at all

A pill hard to swallow - mostly game is not designed mainly for hardcore players, so did DST.

16 minutes ago, WANZUN said:

这玩意不好评判，国内玩家还觉得温蒂dps应该超过大力士，还有月亮ab应该能打影怪，我承认是合理设定但是影怪血量低，几乎是秒杀，没必要要san值这个选项

The Gestlat - Shadow interaction thing is not a thing for power, but more like a thing for flavour.

Especially if you consider the Gestalt would not help you regain your sanity from Shadows, and their killing won't drop fuels fir you.

No need to say current Gestalt Abby have the disadvantage which cannot ignore - target management of multiple enemies. Once she could select Shadows as her target, this downside would be more worse.

It's more like a nerf.

[Debruh]

11 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

then they should learn to play the character  or not play wendy at all

I'm an average player. And I managed to do all bosses as her. It's honestly not as hard as people make it out to be. And would probably be easier now thanks to the new stuff

[Steorra]

11 minutes ago, Debruh said:

It's honestly not as hard as people make it out to be.

Yes, it's same for me.

But Wendy attract many girl players (tbh I'm one of them), but some of them are not good at to learn Wendy's skill - I do have some friends complained a lot about Abby's management to me before.

I think we'd better to descend to those unnegligible playerbase's level but not feeling superiority by looking down at them.

3 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Yes, it's same for me.

Though after played other character like Woodie, I finally know what is "convenient daily gameplay".

[Debruh]

3 hours ago, Steorra said:

Yes, it's same for me.

But Wendy attract many girl players (tbh I'm one of them), but some of them are not good at to learn Wendy's skill - I do have some friends complained a lot about Abby's management to me before.

I think we'd better to descend to those unnegligible playerbase's level but not feeling superiority by looking down at them.

Though after played other character like Woodie, I finally know what is "convenient daily gameplay".

'Girl players' are no less capable than guys.

Every character has something to manage. Not just Wendy with Abby.

Wendy allows you to ignore threats, such as bees, spiders, hounds, etc. And now with scare, even stronger things such as clockworks and tallbirds.

She does that even more effectively than other characters such as Webber or Willow. Requiring no Embers, and in Webber's case, not requiring you to get hit for her summon to aggro on threats. Because while Webber's spiders will only defend if he or they get attacked, Abby will automatically defend Wendy, without her getting hurt first. She exceeds most, if not all, characters when it comes to convenience

[cyjs]

I think we should make a big adjustment after all the skill trees

[litfuu]

31 minutes ago, Debruh said:

“女玩家”的能力并不亚于男玩家。

每个角色都有一些事情需要管理。不仅仅是 Wendy 和 Abby。

Wendy 允许您忽略威胁，例如蜜蜂、蜘蛛、猎犬等。现在有了 scare，甚至更强大的东西，比如发条装置和高鸟。

她甚至比 Webber 或 Willow 等其他角色更有效地做到这一点。不需要 Embers，在 Webber 的情况下，不需要你因为她的召唤而被击中以对抗威胁。因为虽然韦伯的蜘蛛只有在他或他们受到攻击时才会防御，而艾比会自动保护温蒂，而不会让她先受伤。在便利性方面，她超越了大多数（如果不是全部）角色

Wendy is far from being able to ignore these threats, and I have a novice friend who has used Wendy in her own world and been killed countless times by hounds that have arrived over 100 days.

In addition, Willow is quicker to deal with these threats, and Wolfgang and Walter are even faster and easier to fight when there are only a few dozen of them.

Do you think this is a strong ability

[Debruh]

1 hour ago, litfuu said:

Wendy is far from being able to ignore these threats, and I have a novice friend who has used Wendy in her own world and been killed countless times by hounds that have arrived over 100 days.

In addition, Willow is quicker to deal with these threats, and Wolfgang and Walter are even faster and easier to fight when there are only a few dozen of them.

Do you think this is a strong ability

I'm sorry what?

Wendy is able to absolutely ignore hound waves. Even in multiplayer, Abby is able to handle hounds.

If you mean at 100 days, the only threat is the varglet, not a hound lol. But by that time, you as a player should be able to easily deal with varglets. Wendy is able to ignore hounds, as Abby blends them, and have an easier time dealing with varglets.

As mentioned, Willow takes resources, her embers. Also, unlike other followers, Bernie doesn't follow you for long. He deactivates if you get too far, meaning that by day 100, you're carrying him in your inventory, not running with him. So if the hounds suprise, he may not be able to help. Unlike Abby who will automatically help you, and will probably be already summoned.

Wolfgang is brain dead, of course he can deal with houd waves.

And Walter certainly doesn't have it easier than Wendy. He needs a special ammo to deal with them. Mostly aoe such as moonglass and stingers. Stingers don't deal much damage, and pale in comparison to Abby being free, as well as automatic.

[Echsrick]

well its true that not all popular characters are strong, but in this games case it is very well the truth, wendy is one of the stronger characters

[Danila6300]

4 hours ago, litfuu said:

Wendy is far from being able to ignore these threats, and I have a novice friend who has used Wendy in her own world and been killed countless times by hounds that have arrived over 100 days.

In addition, Willow is quicker to deal with these threats, and Wolfgang and Walter are even faster and easier to fight when there are only a few dozen of them.

Do you think this is a strong ability

For some reason this seems too strange to me. Perhaps your friend simply forgot to summon Abigail. Abigail is generally very good at dealing with hounds and, for example, spiders. 

[mima_]

On 2/9/2025 at 5:33 PM, litfuu said:

I did meet a lot of Wendy's players, but many of them had never even been to a cave, let alone challenged various bosses, or even experienced the entire game.

this is why i never tell new player play wendy before trying other characters. i have 15k hours on this game and 80% of them was in public server. i find various kind of people, but what i see the most struggling to improve is the one who tried wendy and never try any other characters.

them playing wendy make them cowards, why i say this?because new player seems to relied on abigail on everything. way too much even they find mods that make abigail fight shadow for them if they can. first time player underestimate how important it is to prepare armor, they failed to survive then try wendy get all small horde that was early challenge a piece of cake, just by idling around. 

its no wonder that u find wendy player never been to cave or do bosses. she is newplayer friendly but doesnt engage player to try to learn to fight on their own. thats why seeing abigail got smacked and die by bosses make them afraid of trying any bosses. abigail is their guardian if she dead-dead how about themself? 

wendy is way too strong to begin with even from DS. so scaling her up being pain in the a$s, thats why her skill tree struggle to find good spot on the heart of so called wendy main and Dev who tried to make her not so bonkersly broken(like the way gesalt abigail first introduced, she idleing in sideline watching abigail kill boss just like her day 1 gameplay when she looking at those bunch of spiders dying). she is strong that make her popular its not hard to see..

[IAmAFurrz]

11 hours ago, Debruh said:

I'm an average player. And I managed to do all bosses as her. It's honestly not as hard as people make it out to be. And would probably be easier now thanks to the new stuff

yep. insisting 'shes badly designed' or aspire to improve themselves, i much prefer the latter option (and i have, wendy is such an interesting character to me now and i consider improving by playing her for a long time).

being an artist i feel the former is as if i complained about my drawing software for not drawing FOR me 

1 hour ago, mima_ said:

but what i see the most struggling to improve is the one who tried wendy and never try any other characters.

thats the trap that wendy is, for people to settle for mediocrity instead of learning how to manage problems they run into (or even considering choosing another character to understand the game more). its fine if they dont wanna have to get into the weeds to improve as people can choose what they do with their time, but its another thing for people to complain about the game not conforming to what they want, and insisting that people that say otherwise are 'arrogant' (most of them keep bringing up the fact they dont want to learn, with PRIDE, like its an argument for some reason)

1 hour ago, mima_ said:

its no wonder that u find wendy player never been to cave or do bosses. she is newplayer friendly but doesnt engage player to try to learn to fight on their own. thats why seeing abigail got smacked and die by bosses make them afraid of trying any bosses. abigail is their guardian if she dead-dead how about themself? 

quite sad they keep blaming the game and the skill tree for a problem that derives from their lack of desire to play the game but thats what happens when shes designed with the perk of squashing day-to-day combat, it makes them complacent. ofc the skill tree has problem and there are valid criticisms but a lot of the wendy discourse is stirred up by people that dont want to discuss, rather they want to WIN arguments

7 hours ago, litfuu said:

I have a novice friend who has used Wendy in her own world and been killed countless times by hounds that have arrived over 100 day

your friend either forgot to summon her ahead of time (how did they even forget when the dogs bark for so long), or left abi to die to them on her own. this is not a good argument, as these are basic threats they barely have to do anything for (rile abi up or help her with potions)

[xhyom]

By the way, how do you think it's fair that Wolfgang has a bad skilltree because he's already strong, but that doesn't apply to a character who has damage that's close to his and area damage that trivializes 95% of the game...?