Thoughts on the state of Wendy (Post Walter Rework)

[yuntunhemudu]

On 2/8/2025 at 12:19 PM, WenericMember said:

Also ghastly experience and terrorise need nerfs, but that doesn't really fit anywhere on the points i'm trying to make sooooo)

YES, as I mentioned in other posts.I agree to make significant changes to the GE, but the direction of the change must be beneficial to novice and less skilled players. I am well aware that a portion of Wendy's skill tree is reserved for novice and less skilled players, such as Flower Armor, Gestalt Abby with unbeatable frames, and the current version's horror experiences. But these contents have been strongly questioned, for example, Flower Armor encourages Wendy to fight alone, Gestalt Abby with invincible frames encourages Abigail to fight alone, and GE encourage Abigail to die multiple times in battle.

It is worth noting that the issue of GE is much less than that of Flower Armor and Gestalt Abby with invincible frames. At least it encourages Wendy and Abigail to fight together, and the problem is only when players with low proficiency need to shamelessly sacrifice Abigail at certain times and then resurrect it.

If there are new skills that benefit beginners and players with low proficiency, I will agree no matter what the GE becomes. However, the current suggestion is to only focus on Nerf GE and not provide solutions that are beneficial for novice and less skilled players.

 

So what skills can benefit beginners and players with low proficiency without affecting players with high proficiency? An example is the battle guidance UI automatically initiated by Abigail, in which Abigail guides Wendy to correctly position herself and Abigail. Once Wendy follows the guidance, she can avoid Abigail from being damaged by the boss. If the skill is not lit up, the UI will not appear. Of course, this may not have the possibility of implementation, so it is just an example.

[DVGMedia]

2 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

If there are new skills that benefit beginners and players with low proficiency, I will agree no matter what the GE becomes. However, the current suggestion is to only focus on Nerf GE and not provide solutions that are beneficial for novice and less skilled players.

I think most people have made it with good reasoning that turing Ghastly Experience into a defensive Super potion that reduces damage of giants While keeping its healing nerfs  would be good for novices. It makes an on demand double hp abby when needed. all that is needed is to craft the item.

I think its best to remove the playertag nonsense because balance should not be based off of strange mechanics such as playertag in the first place.
It should be simple to understand.

In replacing ghastly with the defense potion would need to change sisturn too. Which Ive stated before could just be Making different petals provide different buffs to abby universally.
Be it giving a small sanity aura making her stronger during the day. or even providing a bit of extra health with some of the harder to get and maintain flowers.

 

[Bumber64]

29 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

The pain point presently is player tag isn't a consistent 50% reduction at present. it's like a 25% reduction against Celestial Champion for example.

A small handful of cases. (It's one phase/attack of CC, IIRC?) Toadstool's boomshrooms have no reduction. CK doesn't actually attack. Spider queens. Whatever else I'm forgetting.

[Siren11]

5 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

A small handful of cases. (It's one phase/attack of CC, IIRC?) Toadstool's boomshrooms have no reduction. CK doesn't actually attack. Spider queens. Whatever else I'm forgetting.

Shadow Pieces, Possessed Varg, and Lord of the Fruit Flies, I think?

The wiki would imply that all phases of CC have weird values for player vs. mob damage, but the wiki is full of lies. Has anyone actually checked that one?

[WenericMember]

4 minutes ago, Bumber64 said:

A small handful of cases. (It's one phase/attack of CC, IIRC?) Toadstool's boomshrooms have no reduction. CK doesn't actually attack. Spider queens. Whatever else I'm forgetting.

Back when it was first added, it was tested and Player tag is a 25% reduction from all 3 phases.

1 minute ago, Siren11 said:

Shadow Pieces, Possessed Varg, and Lord of the Fruit Flies, I think?

The two cases where player tag don't take effect iirc from that same testing thread were:

• Minibosses (LOFF, Treeguard, etc)
• Bosses that started off as regular enemies (Shadow pieces, Possessed Varg)

[Debruh]

4 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Treeguard

Pretty sure treeguards are affected 

[yuntunhemudu]

34 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

a defensive Super potion that reduces damage of giants While keeping its healing nerfs  would be good for novices.

But the problem with this potion is that it either overwhelms Unyielding Draugh and Distilled Vengeance, or cannot be used simultaneously with Cursed Vexation/Luminous Wrath.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Debruh said:

Pretty sure treeguards are affected 

Ah, you're right, it's Spider Queen I was thinking of.

The thread I'm talking about is here if you're curious.

[DVGMedia]

5 minutes ago, yuntunhemudu said:

But the problem with this potion is that it either overwhelms Unyielding Draugh and Distilled Vengeance, or cannot be used simultaneously with Cursed Vexation/Luminous Wrath.

well thats the point its defensive towards giants so that way newer players can learn the fights And once they feel confident in positioning abby they can Change to a more offensive super potion.

Draught and vengence are defense towards hordes since it buffs her shield duration useless in most boss fights

Wendys and abbys main gameplay is all about positioning abby correctly so that she doesn't take damage when she doesn't need to and also having her take damage when she does need to. Its all about the management of wendy and abby.

[Mike23Ua]

Wendy’s skill tree compared to all the cool stuff Walter can now do (alongside the cool non skill tree QoL buffs he got) feels uhm how do I put this..

Eerily empty? Lacking Soul? I don’t know, Just the “Woby Here, Woby There” perk ALONE makes me think-

“Oh WoW Klei had better let Maxwells shadow box storage get upgraded buffs so that he can craft and give magicians hats to other players so they can deposit and retrieve supplies “on the Go” from it outside of the stationary structure that is the magicians box. That is one thing that after Woby gets this buff to send supplies to other players, I fully expect Maxwell to get some variation of in his skill tree.

As far as Wendy herself goes: I was very hopeful they would have extended on Wendy’s new “haunt on command” mechanic, add some new things we can “haunt” add buffs, debuffs or cool abilities to “haunting” 

I could provide a hundred examples: But believe with a targeting reticle to aim at and trigger “haunt” that surely Klei could have gotten creative with that.

[yuntunhemudu]

11 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

well thats the point its defensive towards giants so that way newer players can learn the fights And once they feel confident in positioning abby they can Change to a more offensive super potion.

Draught and vengence are defense towards hordes since it buffs her shield duration useless in most boss fights

reasonable. A small suggestion is that its production materials should be simple, easily accessible, and may be classified as level 3 skills rather than level 2 skills.

15 minutes ago, DVGMedia said:

Wendys and abbys main gameplay is all about positioning abby correctly so that she doesn't take damage when she doesn't need to and also having her take damage when she does need to. Its all about the management of wendy and abby.

Yes, therefore I advocate that novice/low skilled players abandon the use of team spirit. At the same time, when designing the skill tree, content equivalent to the team spirit QoL section should be added to other skill branches.

[WenericMember]

3 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

But the problem with this potion is that it either overwhelms Unyielding Draugh and Distilled Vengeance, or cannot be used simultaneously with Cursed Vexation/Luminous Wrath.

IMO if this avenue is explored, it should be a buff to distilled vengeance/draught.

1) They're already Wendy's weakest potions by far, so buffing them shouldn't be a problem

2) As mentioned, those potions are pretty much only usable against hordes, so it just makes them more applicable v bosses.

[WenericMember]

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