Been enjoying wendy a lot, i love the tree's direction but some skills i genuinely hate

[IAmAFurrz]

Some context: I tend to fight without a beefalo, i like the danger wendy might face to protect abigail, and ive been getting better to not take too much damage.

I have come to appreciate abi's design a lot more, having unique strengths and unique weaknesses that can be worked around

As the title says, i really like wendy now, after playing with team spirit skills a bit she really feels smooth to play and they are such great design choices (not sure about the 3rd team spirit but some players have shown they like it). Those skills are very cool, rewards players with keeping abi alive and that fits so well with the sisterly bond theme (which is the BEST kind of gameplay, one that is fitting of the character's theme and also feels rewarding for challenges you can overcome). It was a bit clunky when i first used them but i have learnt after testing out some stuff and honestly she is the most fun i have had in DST for a long time and now she's as smooth as butter

Pipspook is now a lot easier to get since i can move gravestones near me, as well as mourning glories being so plentiful means i dont have to go out for those as much. Love that change, in the past when i go to mosaic's graveyards i have on multiple days in a row gotten no pipspooks (and in general get unlucky with those spawning) so its a great change to me. A basket to carry potions, good to have on wendy, helps protecting abi become a lot more convenient, and i can find use in more niche potions like vigor mortis without sacrificing an inventory slot.

I like that you can increase abi's damage with the 'Murder' action (works well with Butterfly craft, especially in winter when there are none spawning), to call back on how she used to summon abi, makes me want to use nightshade nostrum more often for more reward. Lunar side's perk of gestalt abi, i can see being useful but i really don't use it ever, as it really disencourages learning to work around abi's weaknesses but i can accept it as an option for players to go for when they can't get the hang on team spirit prompts (i accept it since it is trading a LOT of abi's strengths for 1 strength, that isnt basically making abi unkillable like before lol)

Now for some weird design decisions: Blessed sisturn skills.

- 1st one is just whatever, a filler skill.

- 2nd one is nice but sisturn itself is just an eh item, since now you have skills to prevent abi's death very potently, but of course there will be times when she dies, and that will help. Ultimately just semi-filler

- 3rd one, idk man making abi that tough against bosses is just not needed. ive been playing specifically without it, and i have to say i prefer having abi actually being killable to bosses because theres actually risk to let that happen. when i had that skill before, abi dying to bosses never happened (combined with the next skill i will mention, makes abi devoid of all weakness and punishment)

Onto Ghastly Experience (i will call this GE)... i feel like this is truly the worst case of weakness removal. As of right now, GE scales abi's health % based (for example if you use it when abi has 5/150, she will have 20/600, basically keeping it at 1/30 health max). this means that if you have her at 150/150 she can be 600/600 immediately, meaning she can re-reach max health in less than 10 seconds with Spectral Cure-all (this is not a knock against SC since without these BS3 and GE she isn't nearly as unkillable). Makes it so that if you mess up, you don't ever need to get any punishment as long as you run away for 10 seconds which is not long. 

Those 2 are the only skills that i feel completely remove weakness PLUS punishment if somehow abi dies with BS3 (not to mention, it invalidates gestalt abi, as it is never needed with how much more rewarding and riskless shadow side is with these skills in mind). I think an alternative is that BS skills can make it so abi can recover faster with the sisturn filled, bring abi's health max back to 300 in 30-40 seconds and 600 in 1.5-2 minutes. Additionally, can make it a part of the commands, as something called "Call for help", to make abi hurry on her recovery so that she can come back but with a CD, makes it so you can't just rely on sisturn permanently and have to be careful with her. 

TL;DR: change blessed sisturn skills to make the sisturn actually matter outside of BS3, as well as removing/nerfing GE to fit with sisturn ability. If these changes happen, it means that skill tree can go in 2 directions depending on players' choosing:

- 1 is a more defensive build, one where she can last against bosses and can still revert back to normal when she isn't going to fight, and can have her revive faster for bosses, while rewarding a lot less

- 2 is a generally offensive one, where it's a lot more involved to keep abi at risk but still safe with Team Spirit skills, rewarding more for those that play with abi's positioning, plus keeping her alive without fall back skills

[Debruh]

A probably not good idea I have for the blessed Sisturn thing is to make it so that Sisturn ||| makes it so when Abby dies and the sisturn is filled, she doesn't reset her level and the flowers are consumed so that it's not spammed.

Could also make it so that the flowers aren't consumed, and you'll still have to wait till Abby recovers all 600 health instead of just 150 then Ghastly experience is applied

[IAmAFurrz]

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

A probably not good idea I have for the blessed Sisturn thing is to make it so that Sisturn ||| makes it so when Abby dies and the sisturn is filled, she doesn't reset her level and the flowers are consumed so that it's not spammed.

then you just place a sisturn near a boss area and have a bunch of petals on you XD, tho if abi still gets her health reduced to 1 you would still need to desummon her to heal her with SC, or just constantly refill the sisturn which wouldn't make for the most interesting of playstyles (its in between making her unkillable and killable which is weird)

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

Could also make it so that the flowers aren't consumed, and you'll still have to wait till Abby recovers all 600 health instead of just 150 then Ghastly experience is applied

been trying to wrap my head around this but i dont understand it

[Debruh]

26 minutes ago, IAmAFurrz said:

been trying to wrap my head around this but i dont understand it

Well, the og idea was that Abby does die, but her health cap doesn't reset, and flowers in the sisturn get consumed

 

2 hours ago, Debruh said:

Could also make it so that the flowers aren't consumed, and you'll still have to wait till Abby recovers all 600 health instead of just 150 then Ghastly experience is applied

What I said in this, is that if you made it so that the flowers aren't consumed, it would still have more punishment that ghastly experience, as GE makes you have to wait till cure-all heals 150 for 600 hp, while this would have to make you eait till cure-all heals 600 if you want 600 hp

Basically the idea was, that before the skill tree, you unsummoned Abby when she was low health so that you don't suffer the sanity penalty and the health cap on Abby penalty. Then you would use cure-all and wait for Abby to heal up

The idea was to basically make it so that you don't have to unsummon Abby in order to keep her lvl 3. 4 flowers in exchange of now pressing two buttons ig.

Not a very well thought idea, so it obviously has some problems 

[IAmAFurrz]

necro bump :3

[cyjs]

你的建议很好，但我现在讨厌温蒂技能树的一切，我已经失去了改变它的耐心，它应该彻底的重做

[DVGMedia]

Thats kind of why i thought giving abby a lvl 4 would work out with the third sisturn perk.

GE could raise abby to lvl 3 but to get a fully powerd abby would need to have the sisturn play a role Still keeping negatives if abby died during a fight

[Steorra]

On 1/6/2025 at 8:33 PM, IAmAFurrz said:

- 3rd one, idk man making abi that tough against bosses is just not needed. ive been playing specifically without it, and i have to say i prefer having abi actually being killable to bosses because theres actually risk to let that happen. when i had that skill before, abi dying to bosses never happened (combined with the next skill i will mention, makes abi devoid of all weakness and punishment)

Oh.. again. Was this still not enough?

If you want a poll results which did survey for "if you like to nerf player tag Sisturn III or not" I could go search it for you laterly.

On 1/6/2025 at 8:33 PM, IAmAFurrz said:

Onto Ghastly Experience (i will call this GE)... i feel like this is truly the worst case of weakness removal.

If you agree with that to buff basic survivability of Abi by other ways once the GE has been completely remove, I guess a majority of players would agree with you.

Though any improvement intentions for Sisturn itself would be welcomed for me, even with some neccesary nerf. 

But the argument of player tag nerfing was already finished one month ago.

[DVGMedia]

18 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Oh.. again. Was this still not enough?

 

If you want a poll results which did survey for "if you like to nerf player tag Sisturn III or not" I could go search it for you laterly.

 

I think it would be really good to have this poll done on the public to see what most people actually would want.
since the poll is more so  just the extremes that go to the forum.

like the people that take the time to complain usually are the ones that are the lowest denominators.

I honestly feel the general public would be the most happy with a boring upgrade of lvl4. While still keeping the thematics of abby being closer to being alive
klei doesn't need to keep the concept of player tag as the drive to make this lore decision.


 

[IAmAFurrz]

4 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

like the people that take the time to complain usually are the ones that are the lowest denominators.
 

i would like the design to not just outright make sisturn's gimmick of 'bringing abi back in 3/4 day time' just not the point of the structure bc most ppl hate it (and im not just talking about like bosses, ppl hate it in a day-to-day situation where she doesnt even need that much health). ppl even complain that 'waiting for abigail to come back is not good design'  like jeez they dont want any repercussions with abi dying...

this is why suggesting anything that doesnt just make abi unkillable just not it for ppl, once the privilege was given they just cant take it away without ppl complaining before even trying it post-change

 

6 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

Thats kind of why i thought giving abby a lvl 4 would work out with the third sisturn perk.

GE could raise abby to lvl 3 but to get a fully powerd abby would need to have the sisturn play a role Still keeping negatives if abby died during a fight

lvl 4 would be nice, even 900 would let abi survive a few more seconds in a boss fight (and unkillable in day-to-day atp) but i think thats better than lune blossoms. seems like kleis decision of nerfing healing when they're in there is gonna stay tho.

i just wish GE would be changed to not instantly give abi tier 3, just make it a short amount of time but not absurdly immediate as it is now

5 hours ago, Steorra said:

Oh.. again. Was this still not enough?

If you want a poll results which did survey for "if you like to nerf player tag Sisturn III or not" I could go search it for you laterly.

that doesnt negate what my opinion and my suggestions say, what OTHERS think doesnt change what my suggestions are (not to mention, generally people on forums are not gonna try to learn how to use abi well). ive spent like the last 2 months playing with her and its the most fun bc learning to use abi effectively has been fun and doable, and i think BS3 (and combined with GE) completely ruins any challenge wendy had before (aside from nightmares, but you can easily avoid that nowadays).

now, with the healing nerf with the blossoms in there, shes not a literal tank to all bosses anymore so i can say its a step in the right direction. still a bit too 'hold your hand'-ish to me, but seems like klei's keeping that skill in so no point in discussing atp 

[Epireum]

4 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

lvl 4 would be nice, even 900 would let abi survive a few more seconds in a boss fight (and unkillable in day-to-day atp) but i think thats better than lune blossoms. seems like kleis decision of nerfing healing when they're in there is gonna stay tho. 

Did you happen to fully read my topic post? I only ask because I did propose some ideas that you seem to have brought up yourself so it would've been nice to get a discussion on it to see if we as the players could come up with more ideas as a whole, but you never quoted those, only the part where I said the team spirit skill of scare/fear was my favorite while responding saying that I didn't even mention it, which was confusing. I wasn't sure if you misunderstood or not.

To reiterate my post, one of my ideas where I also felt it might be possible to switch to 900 health on a made up lvl 4 as an alternative to what we have now but I had the idea of maybe staggering the health increments such as 50 on lvl 2, 100 on lvl 3 and 150 on lvl 4, which would total to the extra 300 at the end, that way, people feel psychologically like they are benefitting with each upgrade, rather than them being a waste till lvl 4. 

[DVGMedia]

1 hour ago, Epireum said:

psychologically like they are benefitting with each upgrade, rather than them being a waste till lvl 4. 

I think that would be pretty nice to have. making each level be slightly stronger

[yuntunhemudu]

I remember answering GE's related questions in other post, and I think it is currently in a suitable position, especially in the case of Sisturn 3 nerf:

The potential users of Ghastly Experience are casual players/beginners, and Wendy, who they controlled, must have been seriously injured when Abby died. Ghastly Experience immediately cured Abby, but Wendy, who was severely injured, has not yet been dealt with and still loses the ability to continue fighting.

The healing effect of “Spectral Cure All + Ghastly Experience” exceeds that of Spectral Cure All alone only when: In multiplayer games, other characters stand still and take on the damage, Wendy is intact, but Abby dies due to excessive AOE damage.

This is quite reasonable. When playing alone, even with Ghastly Experience, one still loses the ability to continue fighting. In multiplayer games, there is no way kiting, so give Abby the ability to heal faster.

[IAmAFurrz]

21 hours ago, Epireum said:

Did you happen to fully read my topic post? I only ask because I did propose some ideas that you seem to have brought up yourself so it would've been nice to get a discussion on it to see if we as the players could come up with more ideas as a whole, but you never quoted those, only the part where I said the team spirit skill of scare/fear was my favorite while responding saying that I didn't even mention it, which was confusing. I wasn't sure if you misunderstood or not.

i didnt, only saw the experience part as i was busy on that day

 

21 hours ago, Epireum said:

To reiterate my post, one of my ideas where I also felt it might be possible to switch to 900 health on a made up lvl 4 as an alternative to what we have now but I had the idea of maybe staggering the health increments such as 50 on lvl 2, 100 on lvl 3 and 150 on lvl 4, which would total to the extra 300 at the end, that way, people feel psychologically like they are benefitting with each upgrade, rather than them being a waste till lvl 4. 

i agree, tiered skill branches shouldnt be 'filler -> filler -> MUST HAVE SKILL', as it is with BS branch as a whole. like NO ONE cares about having to refill flowers SLIGHTLY more often, or giving teammates nearby 'confidence' as if that'd help against -200/minute drains. the BS branch is "Do you want BS3? If no you don't use any of it' which is a stupid design because its both filler and unbalanced due to how worthless the 1st and 2nd skills are...i never realized how badly designed the blessed sisturn branch is, only knew its bad in terms of not actually improving on sisturn's gimmick that DEFINITELY could be improved upon and made into a functional structure

19 hours ago, DVGMedia said:

I think that would be pretty nice to have. making each level be slightly stronger

yes, thats kinda like wolfgang's incrimental dmg increases in branches (not to say his skill tree is worth a damn, just that the idea is 'you can get more value as the branch goes on, but the beginning skills are still useful even without the final skill'

18 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

The potential users of Ghastly Experience are casual players/beginners

this is not good game design, ESPECIALLY for DST. people have lobbed 'wendy is designed for new players so they should design the tree for them' as if its a valid argument. BS3 already gives players so much defense, you'd have to completely forget abi for 30 seconds for her to somehow die against a lot of bosses AFTER they applied SC on her at the beginning of fights. 

you have to understand GE is already available at the 2nd skill of the potion branch, it does not require any commitment in terms of skill points, it doesn't add to her gameplay OTHER than the fact that bad players can somehow just bypass wendy's weakness in battle with 6 seoncds of healing abi up and then using GE. that is literally removing punishment to the highest degree, you dont even get punished for letting abi die anymore. ive played wendy for a while, and i have gotten like a whole stack of GEs, SCs, and RSs (with help from the flower crown, but thats besides my point) all before autumn1 ends. you literally just put seeds into farm plots, wait for them to be forget-me-lots and then woohoo you can bypass all punishment for abi dying. BS3 is simply a stat change it doesnt purely change abi's gameplay but HELPS players maintain her, but GE ruins it by just letting you use abi like a meatshield on bosses and enables stagnation and refusing to learn to control abi better 

18 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

The healing effect of “Spectral Cure All + Ghastly Experience” exceeds that of Spectral Cure All alone only when: In multiplayer games, other characters stand still and take on the damage, Wendy is intact, but Abby dies due to excessive AOE damage.

this is a bad argument due to the fact that team spirits gives players the ability to reposition abi to not be hit by aoe. you are able to control her now, you have no other excuse other than 'i dont wanna improve'

18 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

must have been seriously injured when Abby died. Ghastly Experience immediately cured Abby, but Wendy, who was severely injured, has not yet been dealt with and still loses the ability to continue fighting.

i dont even get this point. are you assuming whoever plays wendy doesn't know how to heal themselves to the point where they cant even survive for 10 seconds without abigail? you take TWO hits by any given boss even if you stand still by the time abi is back to 600 health. you'd need to INTENTIONALLY let yourself get hurt that much to be in a bad shape when abigail dies. 

it amazes me that somehow, a few MONTHS into the beta wendy's badly designed skill are still being defended by the dumbest arguments that still hasn't changed because the playerbase wants to be able to beat bosses without actually getting better

[yuntunhemudu]

7 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

i didnt, only saw the experience part as i was busy on that day

 

i agree, tiered skill branches shouldnt be 'filler -> filler -> MUST HAVE SKILL', as it is with BS branch as a whole. like NO ONE cares about having to refill flowers SLIGHTLY more often, or giving teammates nearby 'confidence' as if that'd help against -200/minute drains. the BS branch is "Do you want BS3? If no you don't use any of it' which is a stupid design because its both filler and unbalanced due to how worthless the 1st and 2nd skills are...i never realized how badly designed the blessed sisturn branch is, only knew its bad in terms of not actually improving on sisturn's gimmick that DEFINITELY could be improved upon and made into a functional structure

yes, thats kinda like wolfgang's incrimental dmg increases in branches (not to say his skill tree is worth a damn, just that the idea is 'you can get more value as the branch goes on, but the beginning skills are still useful even without the final skill'

this is not good game design, ESPECIALLY for DST. people have lobbed 'wendy is designed for new players so they should design the tree for them' as if its a valid argument. BS3 already gives players so much defense, you'd have to completely forget abi for 30 seconds for her to somehow die against a lot of bosses AFTER they applied SC on her at the beginning of fights. 

you have to understand GE is already available at the 2nd skill of the potion branch, it does not require any commitment in terms of skill points, it doesn't add to her gameplay OTHER than the fact that bad players can somehow just bypass wendy's weakness in battle with 6 seoncds of healing abi up and then using GE. that is literally removing punishment to the highest degree, you dont even get punished for letting abi die anymore. ive played wendy for a while, and i have gotten like a whole stack of GEs, SCs, and RSs (with help from the flower crown, but thats besides my point) all before autumn1 ends. you literally just put seeds into farm plots, wait for them to be forget-me-lots and then woohoo you can bypass all punishment for abi dying. BS3 is simply a stat change it doesnt purely change abi's gameplay but HELPS players maintain her, but GE ruins it by just letting you use abi like a meatshield on bosses and enables stagnation and refusing to learn to control abi better 

this is a bad argument due to the fact that team spirits gives players the ability to reposition abi to not be hit by aoe. you are able to control her now, you have no other excuse other than 'i dont wanna improve'

i dont even get this point. are you assuming whoever plays wendy doesn't know how to heal themselves to the point where they cant even survive for 10 seconds without abigail? you take TWO hits by any given boss even if you stand still by the time abi is back to 600 health. you'd need to INTENTIONALLY let yourself get hurt that much to be in a bad shape when abigail dies. 

it amazes me that somehow, a few MONTHS into the beta wendy's badly designed skill are still being defended by the dumbest arguments that still hasn't changed because the playerbase wants to be able to beat bosses without actually getting better

You said Abby was difficult to die in Beta testing, but I said I experienced more than 10 deaths in Beta testing, all of which were saved by GE and MG3.What should I do without GE and MG3. Is it possible for me to improve my gaming skills immediately ss long as I have this idea?

The dispute between you and me can be attributed to different understandings of the game and the level of gaming. It is meaningless to argue in this regard, as none of us can claim to represent everyone.

7 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

i didnt, only saw the experience part as i was busy on that day

 

i agree, tiered skill branches shouldnt be 'filler -> filler -> MUST HAVE SKILL', as it is with BS branch as a whole. like NO ONE cares about having to refill flowers SLIGHTLY more often, or giving teammates nearby 'confidence' as if that'd help against -200/minute drains. the BS branch is "Do you want BS3? If no you don't use any of it' which is a stupid design because its both filler and unbalanced due to how worthless the 1st and 2nd skills are...i never realized how badly designed the blessed sisturn branch is, only knew its bad in terms of not actually improving on sisturn's gimmick that DEFINITELY could be improved upon and made into a functional structure

yes, thats kinda like wolfgang's incrimental dmg increases in branches (not to say his skill tree is worth a damn, just that the idea is 'you can get more value as the branch goes on, but the beginning skills are still useful even without the final skill'

this is not good game design, ESPECIALLY for DST. people have lobbed 'wendy is designed for new players so they should design the tree for them' as if its a valid argument. BS3 already gives players so much defense, you'd have to completely forget abi for 30 seconds for her to somehow die against a lot of bosses AFTER they applied SC on her at the beginning of fights. 

you have to understand GE is already available at the 2nd skill of the potion branch, it does not require any commitment in terms of skill points, it doesn't add to her gameplay OTHER than the fact that bad players can somehow just bypass wendy's weakness in battle with 6 seoncds of healing abi up and then using GE. that is literally removing punishment to the highest degree, you dont even get punished for letting abi die anymore. ive played wendy for a while, and i have gotten like a whole stack of GEs, SCs, and RSs (with help from the flower crown, but thats besides my point) all before autumn1 ends. you literally just put seeds into farm plots, wait for them to be forget-me-lots and then woohoo you can bypass all punishment for abi dying. BS3 is simply a stat change it doesnt purely change abi's gameplay but HELPS players maintain her, but GE ruins it by just letting you use abi like a meatshield on bosses and enables stagnation and refusing to learn to control abi better 

this is a bad argument due to the fact that team spirits gives players the ability to reposition abi to not be hit by aoe. you are able to control her now, you have no other excuse other than 'i dont wanna improve'

i dont even get this point. are you assuming whoever plays wendy doesn't know how to heal themselves to the point where they cant even survive for 10 seconds without abigail? you take TWO hits by any given boss even if you stand still by the time abi is back to 600 health. you'd need to INTENTIONALLY let yourself get hurt that much to be in a bad shape when abigail dies. 

it amazes me that somehow, a few MONTHS into the beta wendy's badly designed skill are still being defended by the dumbest arguments that still hasn't changed because the playerbase wants to be able to beat bosses without actually getting better

An opinion that satisfies both parties is meaningful. The debate is only to facilitate these meaningful opinions and to remind people that certain groups of people have different needs.

[IAmAFurrz]

9 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

You said Abby was difficult to die in Beta testing, but I said I experienced more than 10 deaths in Beta testing, all of which were saved by GE and MG3.What should I do without GE and MG3. Is it possible for me to improve my gaming skills immediately ss long as I have this idea?

you can always improve. you just need practice to get better 

also, how badly must you manage your health to actually just die 10 times trying to use the potions? it takes 3/4 of a second to apply 1 potion, you can not be seriously that bad 

9 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

The dispute between you and me can be attributed to different understandings of the game and the level of gaming. It is meaningless to argue in this regard, as none of us can claim to represent everyone.

but it is NOT a good design if it makes abi practically never die, as well as make her not suffer any consequence for making mistakes. you do not get to be 'im bad, so the game should be made easy for me'. that is not valid excuse, the game should not completely remove both weakness and punishment.

i love playing wendy as she has good risk and reward, and that risk lowers as i practice and plan things ahead, while reward only increases more and more as i improve. 

and also, this is also a stupid skill tree balance as both GE and BS3 are only 3 required skill points, each with their own design sins (BS branch being so pointless until BS3, meaning you either go all the way for BS3 or none at all, while GE is 2nd skill of the potion branch, with the first skill being extremely good QoL so there is no commitment in terms of points there).

i dont plan on representing everyone, i am analysing these skills in terms of design. and the design is **** (at least wendy's skill tree has more effort in it than walter's entire skill tree). abi being nigh unkillable and having only 10 seconds at most of being low health before getting to 600 health nearly invalidates Lunar branch's whole idea of making her boss efficient too, so its even more of a sin 

9 hours ago, yuntunhemudu said:

An opinion that satisfies both parties is meaningful. The debate is only to facilitate these meaningful opinions and to remind people that certain groups of people have different needs.

this is an answer to what exactly in the quote? you just quoted the entire reply

[Debruh]

Honestly, one skill that I also kinda hate is gestalt Abby.

Like, she's supposed to be an aloof playstyle, where you don't  have to tale care that version of Abby. But I feel like that's just kinda stupid. The fact that it's the lunar alignment also makes it even worse 

It's a skill that goes against an idea of Wendy as a whole ngl.

And someone is experienced enough to beat CC but can't understand and be able to manage Abby? Really?

Also I just really dislike the idea of the lunar alignment only being for one specific skill level.

Even if you're not good at managing Abby, shadow Abby is still useful. It boosts her damage so it does have use in being a better crowd farmer at the very least.

[IAmAFurrz]

5 hours ago, Debruh said:

Honestly, one skill that I also kinda hate is gestalt Abby.

Like, she's supposed to be an aloof playstyle, where you don't  have to tale care that version of Abby. But I feel like that's just kinda stupid. The fact that it's the lunar alignment also makes it even worse 

It's a skill that goes against an idea of Wendy as a whole ngl.

And someone is experienced enough to beat CC but can't understand and be able to manage Abby? Really?

Also I just really dislike the idea of the lunar alignment only being for one specific skill level.

Even if you're not good at managing Abby, shadow Abby is still useful. It boosts her damage so it does have use in being a better crowd farmer at the very least.

i disagree but i get where you're coming from. i like the gestalt abi for bosses like klaus where her normal form would hit both deers and tank so much dmg (i can work around that with normal abi it was quite fun), the form also just requires a lot less management on abi from what ive seen. it does ruin the theme of 'fighting as both sisters' of the skill tree, but thats SUPPOSED to be the 'noob friendly' skill, yet they somehow still want BS3 and GE in the damn skill tree so they can abuse shadow abi  

[Debruh]

Just now, IAmAFurrz said:

i disagree but i get where you're coming from. i like the gestalt abi for bosses like klaus where her normal form would hit both deers and tank so much dmg (i can work around that with normal abi it was quite fun), the form also just requires a lot less management on abi from what ive seen. it does ruin the theme of 'fighting as both sisters' of the skill tree, but thats SUPPOSED to be the 'noob friendly' skill, yet they somehow still want BS3 and GE in the damn skill tree so they can abuse shadow abi  

That's kinda what I dislike about it. I honestly would have preferred lunar alignment to be an alternative playstyle or ability. Like how Willow's spells are, or how Wormwood's affinities depend on if you want qol boosts (carrot and lightbugs) available from the early game or late game enhancements. Both of which kinda ruined by the Celestial portal but eh. But ultimately that's just my opinion.

Btw Klaus can probably be worked around via either repositioning from Abby attacking one deer to the other via attack at, or even scaring the deer away via scare.

[IAmAFurrz]

4 hours ago, Debruh said:

That's kinda what I dislike about it. I honestly would have preferred lunar alignment to be an alternative playstyle or ability. Like how Willow's spells are, or how Wormwood's affinities depend on if you want qol boosts (carrot and lightbugs) available from the early game or late game enhancements. Both of which kinda ruined by the Celestial portal but eh. But ultimately that's just my opinion.

Btw Klaus can probably be worked around via either repositioning from Abby attacking one deer to the other via attack at, or even scaring the deer away via scare.

i usually dont have scare (i really dislike it lol) so i just make it so klaus has to chase me (deers fall behind due to them walking forward a bit later than klaus does) as well as having unyielding draught+fighting in the day to lessen dmg on the deers XD. it sounds stupid but it works