Every time Wendy attacks the target of Abigail's attack, add some duration to the Shadow Abigail state/温蒂每次攻击阿比攻击的目标时，为暗比状态增加一些持续时间

[Catapult 2.0]

  If Abigail is in the shadow state, each time Wendy attacks a target with petals (the vulnerable effect given by Abigail), the duration of the shadow state increases by 2 seconds. In this way, players can maintain the shadow Abigail state without frequently murdering creatures, and the condition of murdering creatures is still used as the activation method of the shadow state, and this also encourages players to fight side by side with Abigail.

  Wolfgang didn't have a way to maintain his fitness value at the beginning of the rework, and he had to repeatedly raise dumbbells during the fight to maintain it, and I remember it was also a Christmas holiday, and there was a lot of discontent on the forums, until Wolfgang added a mechanic that could restore fitness when attacking/hitting/working, which we should take as a warning.

 

  如果阿比处于暗影状态，当温蒂每次攻击带有花瓣（阿比赋予的易伤效果）的目标时，暗影状态的持续时间增加2秒。如此一来，玩家可以不用频繁地谋杀生物来维持暗比状态，而谋杀生物这一条件依然作为暗影状态的启动方式，并且这也鼓励玩家与阿比并肩作战。

 

  沃尔夫冈角色重做初期没有维持健身值的方式，需要在战斗过程中反复举哑铃来维持，我记得那同样是个圣诞假期，论坛上充斥着大量不满的声音，直到为沃尔夫冈加上了攻击/受击/工作时可以恢复健身值的机制，我们应该引以为戒。

 

[EctoPlaza]

I agree with having some method of reducing the amount of murdering needing to be done to keep Shadow Abigail active, just so it doesn't remain as a feature only used for boss fights. 

There's also this suggestion by someone that I agree with as well:

[Steorra]

Sounds good. I like this idea.

[Debruh]

One suggestion I have heard of, that aby creature you kill alongside Abby also actives the state. Not just stuff murdered in the inventory. Just anything that is killed by both Wendy&Abby. Would probably busted against spiders and bounds and stuff. But pretty decent in the ruins and endgame.

Spoiler

If it were up to me, I would just remove the first skill of both alignments, 15 planar defense is just a flat 15 damage anyways no useful. And make the elixirs the first skill, the new forms the second skill, and the third would be being able to decorate the Sisturn with dark tatters for shadow and brightshade husks for lunar

Shadow one gives the effect I said, while the lunar one does something idk

^^^not an actual suggestion btw, we're far too late to do any of that

 

[Koomin]

Further strengthening Shadow Abigail, which is one of the parts of the skill tree that is too strong already, is not something that seems helpful.  The cost of murdering creatures and the duration of buff each murder gives is like the only thing keeping Shadow Abigail remotely in check.

[Steorra]

46 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Further strengthening Shadow Abigail, which is one of the parts of the skill tree that is too strong already, is not something that seems helpful.  The cost of murdering creatures and the duration of buff each murder gives is like the only thing keeping Shadow Abigail remotely in check.

This seems more like a QoL change but not power buff. If to control the power of shadow abi is necessary, then I guess to nerf other aspects of her is far better than keeping her inconvenient to use.

[Koomin]

1 hour ago, Steorra said:

This seems more like a QoL change but not power buff. If to control the power of shadow abi is necessary, then I guess to nerf other aspects of her is far better than keeping her inconvenient to use.

This would just make you only have to murder one creature total ever for a fight as Shadow Abigail.  You can usually get in at least 4 hits consecutively while kiting, so this would effectively make the buff duration infinite, since you would then have 8 seconds to dodge a single attack before the buff expires.  Reducing the murder need during the fight and the need to gather creatures to murder to 1 per fight is a huge power buff, not a QoL. 

Having the creatures available to murder and keeping the buff up is the only cost at this point for Shadow Abigail's ridiculous power, and making you just have to kill a single creature at the start of the fight and then ignore it would remove the whole mechanic.  You would just murder a single creature, and then the Shadow Abigail mechanic would see no engagement for the rest of the fight while you play as normal.

 

[EctoPlaza]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

This would just make you only have to murder one creature total ever for a fight as Shadow Abigail.  You can usually get in at least 4 hits consecutively while kiting, so this would effectively make the buff duration infinite, since you would then have 8 seconds to dodge a single attack before the buff expires.  Reducing the murder need during the fight and the need to gather creatures to murder to 1 per fight is a huge power buff, not a QoL. 

Having the creatures available to murder and keeping the buff up is the only cost at this point for Shadow Abigail's ridiculous power, and making you just have to kill a single creature at the start of the fight and then ignore it would remove the whole mechanic.  You would just murder a single creature, and then the Shadow Abigail mechanic would see no engagement for the rest of the fight while you play as normal.

 

From the looks of the suggestion I posted, the person made it so that you still need to murder creatures regularly to keep Shadow Abigail active, just not to as much to an annoying degree; they even seem to be okay with having her a bit more vulnerable as a trade-off, and it seems to even be separate from the current system.  

[Catapult 2.0]

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

This would just make you only have to murder one creature total ever for a fight as Shadow Abigail.  You can usually get in at least 4 hits consecutively while kiting, so this would effectively make the buff duration infinite, since you would then have 8 seconds to dodge a single attack before the buff expires.  Reducing the murder need during the fight and the need to gather creatures to murder to 1 per fight is a huge power buff, not a QoL. 

Having the creatures available to murder and keeping the buff up is the only cost at this point for Shadow Abigail's ridiculous power, and making you just have to kill a single creature at the start of the fight and then ignore it would remove the whole mechanic.  You would just murder a single creature, and then the Shadow Abigail mechanic would see no engagement for the rest of the fight while you play as normal.

 

According to what you said, shouldn't Wolfgang have a mechanism to attack and restore fitness, because it makes him completely unnecessary for fitness in battle. But since the emergence of this mechanism, Wolfgang has not been weakened.

那照你这么说，沃尔夫冈也不应该拥有攻击恢复健身值的机制吗，因为这让他在战斗中完全不需要健身。但自从这个机制出现后就沃尔夫冈并没被削弱

[Koomin]

2 minutes ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

According to what you said, shouldn't Wolfgang have a mechanism to attack and restore fitness, because it makes him completely unnecessary for fitness in battle. But since the emergence of this mechanism, Wolfgang has not been weakened.

那照你这么说，沃尔夫冈也不应该拥有攻击恢复健身值的机制吗，因为这让他在战斗中完全不需要健身。但自从这个机制出现后就沃尔夫冈并没被削弱

You are correctly pointing out a big complaint that a lot of people have about Wolfgang's changes.

Standing around lifting a weight before every boss fight for a while staring at your screen and then ignoring the mechanic afterwards is not exactly riveting. Arguing to make a new ability mimic a poorly designed ability is not particularly convincing.

I'd love for them to improve Wolfgang's mechanic too and make mightiness more interesting in fights, but it being in the bad state that it currently is doesn't make me want to make Wendy's the same.

[Catapult 2.0]

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

你正确地指出了很多人对 Wolfgang 的改变的一大抱怨。

在每个 Boss 战之前站在那里举重物一会儿，盯着屏幕看一会儿，然后忽略机制并不完全吸引人。争论让新技能模仿设计不佳的技能并不是特别有说服力。

我希望他们也能改进 Wolfgang 的机制，让 mightiness 在战斗中更有趣，但目前处于糟糕的状态并不能让我想让 Wendy's 也一样。

But there wasn't a lot of opposition, and Wolfgang didn't weaken but gained a very strong skill tree after that. Why is Wendy so restrictive?

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

You are correctly pointing out a big complaint that a lot of people have about Wolfgang's changes.

Standing around lifting a weight before every boss fight for a while staring at your screen and then ignoring the mechanic afterwards is not exactly riveting. Arguing to make a new ability mimic a poorly designed ability is not particularly convincing.

I'd love for them to improve Wolfgang's mechanic too and make mightiness more interesting in fights, but it being in the bad state that it currently is doesn't make me want to make Wendy's the same.

 

[DaDa_waw]

2 hours ago, Koomin said:

You are correctly pointing out a big complaint that a lot of people have about Wolfgang's changes.

Standing around lifting a weight before every boss fight for a while staring at your screen and then ignoring the mechanic afterwards is not exactly riveting. Arguing to make a new ability mimic a poorly designed ability is not particularly convincing.

I'd love for them to improve Wolfgang's mechanic too and make mightiness more interesting in fights, but it being in the bad state that it currently is doesn't make me want to make Wendy's the same.

It seems that I haven't seen many people complaining about Wolfgang's "can be maintained through combat" design, but more about dissatisfaction with "penalty waiting". If many people are complaining about the former, I think it's better to give practical examples. Otherwise, it looks like a distorted and provocative behavior that distorts the actual situation.
Secondly, collecting various small animals outside of battles and putting them in backpacks to activate abilities seems to have been supported by many voices on the forum, except for the creators of this ability. Some even pointed out the irrationality of this content through posts discussing character settings. Moreover, even if we assume that 'buff can be maintained through combat' is not a good idea, many people think that the current practice of extending sacrifices is really bad. It is not a unconvincing behavior to recommend E → D → C, and insisting on maintaining the design of E is actually unconvincing.
Finally, the function of sacrificing animals is clearly a tribute to Wendy's activation of Abigail during the DS period and early DST. However, in fact, at that time, all that was needed was' biological death 'to activate Abigail, and there was no need for the so-called' sacrifice in the backpack '. Isn't adding the phrase 'As long as any creature dies, the Shadow ability will activate for 8 seconds' a more sincere tribute than' Backpack Sacrifice '?