My Skilltree Teirlist

[Jakepeng99]

Best Designed- Wortox. It doesnt make him overwhelming or super overpowered (at least compared to the rest). It expands on him well, the skilltree layout is well designed and sticks to his identity of having stat and mobility tools. 

Very Well Designed- Wendy. I just dont like the player tag, and i wish she had more gimmicky utility items, like a light potion, or a potion that makes abigail suck in and pick up items for Wendy for a limited time like a black hole.

Wormwood- Skill tree is solid. But the plant crafting is poorly designed since they are switch skills. If this was fixed he would be close to Wortox. It expands on his health gimmick, and adds a fun summoner playstyle that is not too oppressive. I just dislike planar mechanics and riff stuff in general, which his skilltree has some weird workarounds in.

 

B- Woodie is good, but his curse skills are poorly balanced. The moose has such powerful skills, yet the goose and beaver ones are among the weakest in the tree, close to useless. Their masteries are even weaker. I also dislike Woodie having no downsides, but thats up to Klei to make a new one.

B- Wigfrid is cool. I wish she got new song stuff instead of weapons since it is really unfitting since she is an actor, but its kinda fun. Also, the beefalo tree is badly designed. The teir 3 skill is fun, but why leave it at that, and have the teir 4 saddle be kinda pointless to invest in. Her alignmenr songs are also really boring.

 

Ok- They are just ok.

 

Not Well Designed- Wilsons skilltree is so undertuned. The conversion rates of most alchemmy stuff needs buffed. Three teir skills merged into two. They need to make the torch tree work on all light sources, but klei said they wont do that because, it would be "powercreep". 

The next character Willow immediately powercreeps it with two skills vs Wilson needing 6. Her lighter skills are just better. In general, i find the ember system of Willow Ok but it feels too complex in my opinion and is too overwhelming. I wish instead they improved fire damage in general.

 

Poorly Designed- Wolfgang. His skilltree is pretty sad. You choose between 5% extra crit chance, or 50% dumbell damage. Thats how little variaty it gives. The planar skills are probably the worst designed skills in the game. 5 skills that do nothing at all pre riff, but are nessisary post riff. Why not just make it base kit and add something new? The tree also makes Wolfgang busted anyway, since they gave him 30% extra damage against alignment mobs, making sainity creatures and stuff non-existant.

 

Wurt- I already say alot. I dont like it

 

 

My general thoughts of skilltrees is that i wish that they instead didnt do skilltrees, and instead touched up chatacters that needed it, and spent time improving the weak areas of the game. But at least most are ok. Though, i dislike switch skills (Wilson, Wormwood) and how they handle planar mechanics.

[Swiyss]

I mean, I think Woodie is an A+ for me. His skill tree is one of the best ones.

[Kwaik]

Wortox affinity skills are really bad, I absolutely hate them 

Which is super disappointing and makes a world of difference with the overall picture of his skill tree 

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Kwaik said:

Wortox affinity skills are really bad, I absolutely hate them 

Which is super disappointing and makes a world of difference with the overall picture of his skill tree 

Yesh i agree.

He still has the best. 

[Valase]

I think that the "best designed" to "worst designed" is not a good metric, for example, I'd say that Woodie's is the best designed, as it approaches all aspects of him and adds some more on top, but I don't think that his is the best implemented, as you always go for the moose and whatever you feel like after.

[Jakepeng99]

I guess so

[Echsrick]

knapsack exist how it is right now, therefor i do not belive wortox is best designed

[Jakepeng99]

5 hours ago, Echsrick said:

knapsack exist how it is right now, therefor i do not belive wortox is best designed

Its ok.

[WenericMember]

I think Wendy still has a lot of fine tuning to go in regards to balance - Team Spirit I, Haunt, MG crafts and Gravestones all need buffs, while Blessed Sisturn 3, terrorise and maybe SS 3 need nerfs, but I'd agree she's one of the best designed. None of the skills feel especially useless and there's a lot to play around with without being too overbearing.

I'd give Willow a little credit, her new skills are by far the most mechanically interesting, and breathed new life into probably the most underdeveloped characters, but went too far in regards to balance.

I think Wurt's has at least has interesting ideas, between the wetness protection, King Quests, and aligned merms, but it is poorly balanced. I'd say she's at least above Wolf & Wilson, if only just.

Other than that I agree. Wortox fixes his issues without removing his flaws entirely (removing some flaws worsens others). Woody's is well designed but makes him largely a flat upgrade to Wilson by fixing most of his flaws. Wormwood's tree has a bit too much filler and a few OP perks (Lunar Spores) but is otherwise cool. Wigfrid gets more unique combat, and Beefalo perks are at least interesting, if not fully synergistic.

Walter and Winona do what they needed to do, but aren't that interesting beyond that, while Wolfgang and Wilson just lack any and all interesting mechanics, with almost all of their skills being "stat skills."

(Vaguely Ordered, uninteresting and significant issues are interchangeable)

13 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wurt- I already say alot. I dont like it

Look I get you don't like Wurt's tree, but don't you feel like below "here's 15 skills exclusively for buffing damage potential by bigger number" is worse?

[Jakepeng99]

59 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Look I get you don't like Wurt's tree, but don't you feel like below "here's 15 skills exclusively for buffing damage potential by bigger number" is worse?

Thats what Wurt's skilltree is. Its almost all combat, and only makes her better at doing things she was already extremely good at. More merm durability and damage pasted through the tree, even if it is just achieved purely by stats.

Its worse design than Wolfgang, especially since Webber exists and it powercreeps him. Going for merms being utility focused, doing new things, while webber was combat would be better. It didnt touch on her merm kingdom, and her merm kingdom remains just a slum area filled with merm warriors who do nothing until provoked.

The balance is also impossible to fix without nerfing merms very significantly at their base.

[WenericMember]

11 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Thats what Wurt's skilltree is. Its almost all combat, and only makes her better at doing things she was already extremely good at. More merm durability and damage pasted through the tree, even if it is just achieved purely by stats.

Its worse design than Wolfgang, especially since Webber exists and it powercreeps him. Going for merms being utility focused, doing new things, while webber was combat would be better. It didnt touch on her merm kingdom, and her merm kingdom remains just a slum area filled with merm warriors who do nothing until provoked.

The balance is also impossible to fix without nerfing merms very significantly at their base.

Disagree. Sure it's mostly combat, but its at least tied to different items, conditions and progression. Wolfgangs is literally just a mightiness check.

Also first 3 tiers of wetness protection, swamp pathfinder, Fertizzler, Lil Itchy and Industrious merms are all non-combat, which is WAY more than wolfgang.

[Jakepeng99]

33 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Also first 3 tiers of wetness protection, swamp pathfinder, Fertizzler, Lil Itchy and Industrious merms are all non-combat, which is WAY more than wolfgang

Still a really weak selection.

Wolfgangs is boring but at least doesnt mess with his character.

[WenericMember]

8 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Still a really weak selection.

Wolfgangs is boring but at least doesnt mess with his character.

I'm confused. Wasn't your point that her skill tree  was all combat, something she was already strong at, inherently meaning it doesn't mess with her character?

Wurt has some perks that add non-combat utility, and has her combat perks implemented in a more interesting way. That puts her above Wolfgang.

Wurts undeniably busted rn, and could probably use a patch similar to what walter's getting to add camping skills, but she's still in a better state than wolfgang.

Wolfgang's is literally bottom of the barrel lol. I don't think saying Wolf is worse would undermine your case for her to have her skill tree get a second look.

[Jakepeng99]

37 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

I'm confused. Wasn't your point that her skill tree  was all combat, something she was already strong at, inherently meaning it doesn't mess with her character?

I never objected this.

[WenericMember]

10 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I never objected this.

Then what did you mean by this?:

52 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wolfgangs is boring but at least doesnt mess with his character.

 

[Jakepeng99]

56 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Then what did you mean by this?:

 

Wurt's skilltree messes with her character.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Wurt's skilltree messes with her character.

Yeah but how?

as you said its mostly combat.

 

[Cassielu]

Sometimes I'm really surprised at how different people can think... 

• Perfect: At least we all agree Wortox is the best.
• OK: Walter‘s teir is based on his current situation, and if Klei provides more skill about his survival part content he should move up a level.
• need to be fix: When everyone gets a skill tree, Wilson's already bad skilltree becomes even worse. Wendy and Wormwood has too many noise - too many skill that nothing to do with the original perk, making their character confusing.

Wolfgang's skilltree is just a little boring, and that won't do the character any harm, especially since Wolfgang is already a statistics character. The skill tree did not make him as good as some expected, but it certainly did not make him worse.

Wendy and Wormwood skilltree gets a lot of noise, noise is more disastrous than boring, adding noise to a nice character turns them into a bad character.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Cassielu said:

Wendy and Wormwood skilltree gets a lot of noise, noise is more disastrous than boring, adding noise to a nice character turns them into a bad character

I believe the exact opposite and believe they have the least noise among Wortox.

The noisiest ones are Willow, and Wurt.

3 hours ago, WenericMember said:

Yeah but how?

as you said its mostly combat.

 

Ive said it in alot of threads before. I might link it later.

This person explained it well.

The fun of Wurt was developing your merm city, and watching it grow as time went. Though, the only structure we ever had was merm warrior house, the king and regular merms. Even after the skilltree, there is such little ways to develop it survival wise without just making it an army recruiting station using the feeder and helmets. The tools help but not that much.

[Debruh]

Honestly, the worst thing about all this, is the bad skill trees/bad parts of some skill trees, are probably never gonna get redesigned.

Even if Klei tries to, tons will complain.

[Anis5240]

45 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Honestly, the worst thing about all this, is the bad skill trees/bad parts of some skill trees, are probably never gonna get redesigned.

Even if Klei tries to, tons will complain.

Why wouldn't people complain when parts of said skill trees literally brought or have nothing related to the established lore. Especially onto Wilson, the one who had conquered the Constant once. The least Klei ought to do onto his skill tree was changing the whole torch tree into a more generalized light source tree. Plenty of Wilson players had voiced their opinions for Klei to change it, yet it's getting close to 2 years and still nothing happens. He didn't even have a rework. I still play Wilson of course, but the fact ⅓ part of his skill tree was absolutely useless was very disappointing.

You know what I think about this whole debacle? It just said a lot about Klei not satisfied with their characters, yet barely do any justice onto said characters during their reworks, and bring a whole new thing via skill trees. They could've done small fixes like how Wortox got his map hop during Wickerbottom's update, yet they don't. People even say some of the stuff introduced in the skill trees should be base kits.

[Jakepeng99]

1 hour ago, Debruh said:

Honestly, the worst thing about all this, is the bad skill trees/bad parts of some skill trees, are probably never gonna get redesigned.

Even if Klei tries to, tons will complain.

We will get skilltree reworks before cave rework.

[Debruh]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

We will get skilltree reworks before cave rework.

Nobody will survive long enough for the biome reworks

[Debruh]

3 hours ago, Anis5240 said:

Why wouldn't people complain when parts of said skill trees literally brought or have nothing related to the established lore. Especially onto Wilson, the one who had conquered the Constant once. The least Klei ought to do onto his skill tree was changing the whole torch tree into a more generalized light source tree. Plenty of Wilson players had voiced their opinions for Klei to change it, yet it's getting close to 2 years and still nothing happens. He didn't even have a rework. I still play Wilson of course, but the fact ⅓ part of his skill tree was absolutely useless was very disappointing.

You know what I think about this whole debacle? It just said a lot about Klei not satisfied with their characters, yet barely do any justice onto said characters during their reworks, and bring a whole new thing via skill trees. They could've done small fixes like how Wortox got his map hop during Wickerbottom's update, yet they don't. People even say some of the stuff introduced in the skill trees should be base kits.

This isn't what my comment was referring to, which is why I'm assuming that you hid this. Since it didn't appear for me before. Just got an email on it, now 

Honestly, just wanna know why you unhid it.

But, yeah, I'm advocating for skill trees to get revised. Just said that people will complain about that, skill trees getting revised not skill trees not being bad.

[WenericMember]

6 hours ago, Jakepeng99 said:

I believe the exact opposite and believe they have the least noise among Wortox.

The noisiest ones are Willow, and Wurt.

Ive said it in alot of threads before. I might link it later.

This person explained it well.

The fun of Wurt was developing your merm city, and watching it grow as time went. Though, the only structure we ever had was merm warrior house, the king and regular merms. Even after the skilltree, there is such little ways to develop it survival wise without just making it an army recruiting station using the feeder and helmets. The tools help but not that much.

That isn't messing with her character tho? It's failing to fix the issues with her character. As you said, even prior to the skill tree the only structure used was the merm warrior house.

Messing with her character would be something like decreasing the costs of structures, making it less like creating a village and more like creative mode, or allowing her to eat meat. Stuff that changes her gameplay away from her originally developed playstyle. 

Both wolfgang and wurts trees failed to solve their characters issues (Wolfgangs lack of playstyle diversity from Wilson, Wurts merms being distinct from Spiders), but while Wolfgang resorted to stat increases for 90% of of the tree, Wurt at least was given some skills that were non-combat related, and had her skills be incorporated in a more interesting manner.