Wortox knabsack should have an upgrade like Wigfrids spear, tied to the affinity tree

[Kwaik]

Wortox has a decent skill tree but the affinity skills are incredibly underwhelming and extremely restrictive (plus they stink for console players control wise) 

I don't see any massive overhauls happening at this point, and the knabsack drops off pretty quickly

My suggestion would be to create an  upgrade for the knabsack tied to the affinity trees,  to help make up for the underwhelming affinity skills. This would help keep the knabsack from dropping off and becoming completely useless, and it would add some variety to the restrictive affinity skills that require specific items. 

Plus conceptually the knabsack is a nice idea,  and visually stands out. So it would be nice to keep it as a viable item, instead of just a gimmicky hambat 

[Soul7k]

I am with you on this. I think it would be nice if the knabsack enabled affinity skills pre rift. that way you could use them, then replace them post rift once you gain access to the appropriate items later

[asdsaax]

I had an idea where covetous collector allows to upgrade jars with pure brilliance/horror
to make progression that rewards for effort

because it feels icky that Wortox's personal item is like... equivalent of hambat with big swipe perk
and you know... hambat ain't that hard to craft and gets job done

What I liked in Winona's skilltree is that she's rewarded for her effort
instead of getting everything right away for free

 

[Kwaik]

11 minutes ago, Soul7k said:

I am with you on this. I think it would be nice if the knabsack enabled affinity skills pre rift. that way you could use them, then replace them post rift once you gain access to the appropriate items later

It's however they want to balance it. 

If allowing them prerift is a thing great (but this would make it substantially weaker late game) 

But I'm okay if they make it where it's as is prerift, and then late game/post rift it gets upgraded to something else (ie a similar upgrade path to the way Wigfrids spear is where you can make it earlier. Then fully upgrade it close to the and of CC) 

Hell id be okay if it was upgradable with any of the very end game items (ie celestial shards) so you're not forced to use a single item that's not even character unique 

[Echsrick]

eh...i dont think it sould been a weapon like ever, like...filling your inventory to the point you cant realy carry things anymore is not realy good

[OMEGASCRUFF]

Just saying, I would really rather see Brightshade Husks and Dark Tatters used for content intended for post-rifts. People keep forgetting that both Pure Brilliance and Pure Horror are accessible pre-rifts. (Though you have to kill Crab King for Pure Brilliance anyways, but Pure Horror is accessible pretty much immediately.)

Oh and I guess to actually add feedback to the actual topic, I just want the Nabsack to be a useful alternative to carrying whatever gear is opposite to your alignment. If I'm using Shadow Reaper, I would want the Nabsack to be a slightly weaker version of the Brightshade Helm + Sword, and the reverse for Lunar Swindler. Otherwise I don't see why I'd carry it later into the game at all. It would need proper modifiers depending on how you upgrade it. I'd also prefer it had an inventory like the Enlightened Crown does so I'm not clogging my inventory with useless items, because I may as well just carry the opposite alignment's gear at that point.

Maybe the upgrade can also make the item collecting feature consume less durability too. This thing breaks from a couple stacks of Kelp and it just makes me sad.

[ColdHeaven]

did people miss klei's words on this? knabsack is an early game weapon. and depend on how skilled you are, you may find this weapon either negligible or incredibly useful, a new player obviously progress much slower and will be using the knabsack more than a seasoned player.

[asdsaax]

6 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

did people miss klei's words on this? knabsack is an early game weapon. and depend on how skilled you are, you may find this weapon either negligible or incredibly useful, a new player obviously progress much slower and will be using the knabsack more than a seasoned player.

I think people feel disappointed because it feels barely different than hambat and dark sword despite of it's unique scaling mechanic and being survivor exclusive craft

surely I can appreciate it's nuances like acessibility and being consistent hambat, but people finding the item mundane is understandable
because we are talking about an alternative to base-game items that aren't impossible to get and get the job done too, that's how things were done for years

and personally I lowkey miss the pure horror +5 damage upgrade at it's peak, but Klei has removed it to justify needing 2-3 jars instead of 5
so eh, I can only hope that Klei makes something out of those suggestions

I would be even down to sacrifice all 3 pure horrors to infuse my jars for that lil bonus
even if it means saving my werepig drop with green gems or sacrificing it for a mid game reward that falls off I mind you

when someone like Maxwell has god mode after fuelweaver or Wanda gets up to 150 dmg for crafting shadow manipulator
then I don't think it's such a gluttonous request?

[Beetrice]

...Use the Elastispacer on a Soul Jar to store (atleast) three times as many souls...

[Soul7k]

6 hours ago, Kwaik said:

It's however they want to balance it. 

If allowing them prerift is a thing great (but this would make it substantially weaker late game) 

But I'm okay if they make it where it's as is prerift, and then late game/post rift it gets upgraded to something else (ie a similar upgrade path to the way Wigfrids spear is where you can make it earlier. Then fully upgrade it close to the and of CC) 

Hell id be okay if it was upgradable with any of the very end game items (ie celestial shards) so you're not forced to use a single item that's not even character unique 

this also makes sense

[OMEGASCRUFF]

2 hours ago, ColdHeaven said:

did people miss klei's words on this? knabsack is an early game weapon. and depend on how skilled you are, you may find this weapon either negligible or incredibly useful, a new player obviously progress much slower and will be using the knabsack more than a seasoned player.

Many of us I'm sure saw the update notes, but that wasn't the original design behind it, and this is a mandatory skill point on the way to Soul Jar and Overwhelming Greed. Covetous Collector is attached to Soul Pierce's damage too for some reason. It's not really optional like Woodie's mediocre starter gear skills are, which at least can be given to other players, but built into crucial skills to Wortox's skills tree. It's not avoidable, so players want it to actually provide some value and not feel wasteful, especially without Covetous Collector which provides even less value when also skipping Soul Pierce.

People just don't like the Nabsack, and it's because of these reasons.

(I'd honestly feel much better about it if collecting items didn't consume any durability at all. Seriously, that's all it would take for me to keep one on me, even without Covetous Collector. It would have to be very little to no durability, though. But so long as it's also a weapon, it would be nice if Covetous Collector made it actually viable in that department when it's costing bonus Insight.)

[Kwaik]

2 hours ago, ColdHeaven said:

did people miss klei's words on this? knabsack is an early game weapon. and depend on how skilled you are, you may find this weapon either negligible or incredibly useful, a new player obviously progress much slower and will be using the knabsack more than a seasoned player.

I'm not talking about it no longer being an early game weapon. 

I'm talking about the affinity skills feeling incredibly restrictive and limited in scope, and desiring an alternative avenue to using them. The knabsack just seems like an ample opportunity. 

I'd be fine with fully reworking the affinity skills otherwise, but I don't see that as a realistic option days before Christmas and this close to the patch release date 

[Sikers]

I think Knabsack is mostly fine, if something I would like it to have some other utilities like catching animals or maybe providing a few extra inventory slots, eventually they could change this branch, so knabsack is just optional.

Affinities could be a bit more interesting, but I don't mind it. The only thing I would change, is to make shadow affinity to work with Shadow Maul as it is like a direct upgrade to Shadow Reaper and maybe Gloomerang

[ApoIIo]

12 hours ago, Kwaik said:

Wortox has a decent skill tree but the affinity skills are incredibly underwhelming and extremely restrictive (plus they stink for console players control wise) 

I don't see any massive overhauls happening at this point, and the knabsack drops off pretty quickly

My suggestion would be to create an  upgrade for the knabsack tied to the affinity trees,  to help make up for the underwhelming affinity skills. This would help keep the knabsack from dropping off and becoming completely useless, and it would add some variety to the restrictive affinity skills that require specific items. 

Plus conceptually the knabsack is a nice idea,  and visually stands out. So it would be nice to keep it as a viable item, instead of just a gimmicky hambat 

I think the reaper is an incredibly, significantly cooler weapon than that hideous bag and I think if we ever get a weapon update it should be the scythe. Sure the knabsack visually stands out, but in a highly disappointing way, it looks nothing nearly as cool as a krampus sack and it looks more like a diaper.

[Dingle]

7 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Many of us I'm sure saw the update notes, but that wasn't the original design behind it, and this is a mandatory skill point on the way to Soul Jar and Overwhelming Greed. Covetous Collector is attached to Soul Pierce's damage too for some reason. It's not really optional like Woodie's mediocre starter gear skills are, which at least can be given to other players, but built into crucial skills to Wortox's skills tree. It's not avoidable, so players want it to actually provide some value and not feel wasteful, especially without Covetous Collector which provides even less value when also skipping Soul Pierce.

People just don't like the Nabsack, and it's because of these reasons.

(I'd honestly feel much better about it if collecting items didn't consume any durability at all. Seriously, that's all it would take for me to keep one on me, even without Covetous Collector. It would have to be very little to no durability, though. But so long as it's also a weapon, it would be nice if Covetous Collector made it actually viable in that department when it's costing bonus Insight.)

The nabsack not taking durability when picking stuff up would have me actually use it.

I recently used it to pick up mined stonefruit recently. It just nukes its durability.

I was thinking it would be at least handy to use with kelp/grass/twig farming with the Reaper. But no, I think those would be even worse. Especially kelp.

[Echsrick]

 

8 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Covetous Collector is attached to Soul Pierce's damage too for some reason.

idea would be if soul pierce just had fixed damage, maybe even the longer it travels the more damage it can do, and the collector skill be replaced with something else, something that dont affect other skills the other brances, but what could be good to change to something better? a chance to get douple the souls when ever you collect a soul unless it would overflow your limit?

[Dingle]

They explained the "for some reason" before. Basically Wortox's Naughty tree got really convoluted and overly interconnected as they developed it, before the launch of beta.

The first big Wortox hotfix fixed a lot of this. Before that, pierce and decoy did less damage unless you had Covetous, had 5 100% filled soul jars, AND you had the nabsack equipped. And pierce and decoy did laughably small base damage, otherwise.

Traces remain of the old design. This is why covetous still influences soul damage. This is also probably why the sack is still the first point under soul jar, instead of the other way around.

The sack also used to do planar if you put horror or brilliance in it. This was taken out in the above hotfix.

[Kwaik]

6 hours ago, ApoIIo said:

I think the reaper is an incredibly, significantly cooler weapon than that hideous bag and I think if we ever get a weapon update it should be the scythe. Sure the knabsack visually stands out, but in a highly disappointing way, it looks nothing nearly as cool as a krampus sack and it looks more like a diaper.

The reapers a cooler weapon I just don't like being pigeonholed 

And I feel that any kind of upgrade would be associated with upgraded graphics. 

IMO I don't want to have to farm for reaper repairs for causual use 

Other affinity skills are so much more accessible 

[OMEGASCRUFF]

Just now, Kwaik said:

IMO I don't want to have to farm for reaper repairs for causual use 

You're so valid for this. The only way I've found that doesn't involve Houndius Shootius to make the Inkblight trio less obnoxious is to relocate Rock Lobsters to the fissure I use. I'm sure someone else has a better solution for this that's ideally independent of worldgen. I'm sure Bunnymen work, but as Wortox, no thank you.

Void kits really do feel like a bigger chore at the moment, and there's much less danger involved for the Brightshade equivalent (Grazers are still stinky though.)

[Dingle]

51 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

You're so valid for this. The only way I've found that doesn't involve Houndius Shootius to make the Inkblight trio less obnoxious is to relocate Rock Lobsters to the fissure I use. I'm sure someone else has a better solution for this that's ideally independent of worldgen. I'm sure Bunnymen work, but as Wortox, no thank you.

Void kits really do feel like a bigger chore at the moment, and there's much less danger involved for the Brightshade equivalent (Grazers are still stinky though.)

We usually send someone with a brightshade staff to nuke them.

Though that requires both rifts open.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

10 hours ago, Dingle said:

We usually send someone with a brightshade staff to nuke them.

Though that requires both rifts open.

Yeah, it gets the job done all right. I tend to fight them by hand because I don't like the cost of the Brightshade Staff when comparing damage per use but... Honestly they're worth it. Super annoying enemies, they are. Yoda, I am.

[cropo]

I think the Knabsack is just garbage and would like it to be a viable post-rifts weapon but not pre-rift.  Pre-rift I want to be able to use various weapons as I see fit, but post-rifts seems pretty bent on sticking to a single weapon of your choice and repairing it so it would make more sense for a character-specific weapon to gain its official usage post-rift.


Plus it would look really cool to sling a backpack-mace that had a shadow or lunar aura around it.

[ApoIIo]

15 hours ago, Kwaik said:

IMO I don't want to have to farm for reaper repairs for causual use 

Other affinity skills are so much more accessible 

 

15 hours ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

You're so valid for this. The only way I've found that doesn't involve Houndius Shootius to make the Inkblight trio less obnoxious is to relocate Rock Lobsters to the fissure I use. I'm sure someone else has a better solution for this that's ideally independent of worldgen. I'm sure Bunnymen work, but as Wortox, no thank you.

Void kits really do feel like a bigger chore at the moment, and there's much less danger involved for the Brightshade equivalent (Grazers are still stinky though.)

Idk I don't mind man I'm Wortox, they really are just two clicks and a loading screen away, a ton of them drop and the rictus are revealed by soul decoy so you don't have to bring anything extra if you get them over the inkblights. The reaper + soul hops also makes them incredibly easy to kill.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

14 hours ago, ApoIIo said:

 

Idk I don't mind man I'm Wortox, they really are just two clicks and a loading screen away, a ton of them drop and the rictus are revealed by soul decoy so you don't have to bring anything extra if you get them over the inkblights. The reaper + soul hops also makes them incredibly easy to kill.

Yeah that's basically what I was tasked with doing pre-skill-tree because the server owner and base builder didn't have the foresight to choose a good base location that also factored in cave entrances... I tend to look for an accessible fissure + Blue Mushroom biome + closest entrance to Ruins if possible (they're all usually far anyways.) Soul Decoy makes it so much easier to separate them now, on its own, for sure, but I use Brightshade gear for the bonuses against shadows at this point with the affinity to make it way safer and less costly on armor to facetank. I used to just use fugu Hutch for Rictus though, haha, though any build without Soul Decoy III will still need to use him or a Bramble Armor or Brightshade Bombs or something.

I still think it's more work, though. You kinda end up with a lot of Brightshade Husks just by killing them when they're in bad locations and can just quickly teleport to the rift for Pure Brilliance as well. It just doesn't really involve any remotely life-threatening combat other than maybe getting stunlocked by Grazers. I feel like the Dark Tatters tend to be the bottleneck for Void gear and Pure Brilliance for Brightshade gear, and Pure Brilliance is definitely a lot easier to get (and you can transmute a bunch of you really want, I guess, though I've never bothered.) I think that's the reason why people dislike Void gear more, though I think it's not that bad. (I also, uh, just deconstruction cheese the Nightmare Saddle now, as soon as I can. The Dreadstone is nice to have on top of the other materials.)

[Dingle]

23 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Yeah that's basically what I was tasked with doing pre-skill-tree because the server owner and base builder didn't have the foresight to choose a good base location that also factored in cave entrances... I tend to look for an accessible fissure + Blue Mushroom biome + closest entrance to Ruins if possible (they're all usually far anyways.) Soul Decoy makes it so much easier to separate them now, on its own, for sure, but I use Brightshade gear for the bonuses against shadows at this point with the affinity to make it way safer and less costly on armor to facetank. I used to just use fugu Hutch for Rictus though, haha, though any build without Soul Decoy III will still need to use him or a Bramble Armor or Brightshade Bombs or something.

I still think it's more work, though. You kinda end up with a lot of Brightshade Husks just by killing them when they're in bad locations and can just quickly teleport to the rift for Pure Brilliance as well. It just doesn't really involve any remotely life-threatening combat other than maybe getting stunlocked by Grazers. I feel like the Dark Tatters tend to be the bottleneck for Void gear and Pure Brilliance for Brightshade gear, and Pure Brilliance is definitely a lot easier to get (and you can transmute a bunch of you really want, I guess, though I've never bothered.) I think that's the reason why people dislike Void gear more, though I think it's not that bad. (I also, uh, just deconstruction cheese the Nightmare Saddle now, as soon as I can. The Dreadstone is nice to have on top of the other materials.)

We always do the pure brilliance transmute on my servers. Combine it with Wickerbottoms End is Nigh and it removes it as a bottleneck, completely and utterly. So its just husks vs tatters at that point. Totally worth the moon idols, every once in a great while.

At this point of the game, since you can transplant or move almost everything, "best base location" to me is simply near water, a good sinkhole (like you said), and either a wormhole or just vaguely central. Especially since the "endgame" makes you run around so much.