wendy Wendy Long Playtesting + Feedback (12-12 Build)

[Grove]

8 hours ago, WenericMember said:

Aww that's sweet dialogue

Aside from that yeah blessed sisturn is way too good in its current state.

8 hours ago, Dingle said:

Player tag is oddly a failure both ways

Also funny how they said they wanted to focus on aesthetic and such. Then added this. Like.. did they forget about this? Does lunar magic help Wendy see Abby or not? Like gestalt Abby made sense since you're converting into a lunar creature. But somehow lunar magic makes ghost Abby more clear?

There's also the fact that Abby's flower requires nightmare fuel to craft..

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Also funny how they said they wanted to focus on aesthetic and such. Then added this. Like.. did they forget about this? Does lunar magic help Wendy see Abby or not? Like gestalt Abby made sense since you're converting into a lunar creature. But somehow lunar magic makes ghost Abby more clear?

There's also the fact that Abby's flower requires nightmare fuel to craft..

'tis bizarre

[Giovirtual79]

28 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Also funny how they said they wanted to focus on aesthetic and such. Then added this. Like.. did they forget about this? Does lunar magic help Wendy see Abby or not? Like gestalt Abby made sense since you're converting into a lunar creature. But somehow lunar magic makes ghost Abby more clear?

There's also the fact that Abby's flower requires nightmare fuel to craft..

I do think this is just a major oversight. My headcanon is that since the Celestial Crown is a drop from Celestial Champion, who is a bastion of THEM, it has some ties to THEM that drowns out Abgiail. A lot of character quotes describe hearing whispers from the crown and Wormwood even says it allows him to hear THEM. Wanda also mentions seeing stuff, so it could do something to that.




With that said, I don't think it's too farfetched that while THEM themselves could potentially sever the ties between Wendy and Abigail, the mysterious powers of the moon could still make sense in getting the closest Wendy has gotten to reviving Abigail. A common theme about the Lunar side of DST is the theme of resurrection or the rebirth of pre-existing life, at least from what I've seen. Examples of this can be seen all over the Lunar Island with life such as Saladmanders, Carrats, Lunar Spiders, and Moonrock Pengulls. There's also the bigger examples, such as Hounds resurrecting when killed on the Lunar Island and the 3 Giants (Bearger, Varg, and Deerclops) being resurrected when you have the Lunar Rifts activated. Because of this, I can definitely see how Lunar Blossoms being helpful to Abigail and make Wendy see it as the closest she has gotten to reviving Abigail. Maybe the powers of the Enlightened Crown are just too strong for Wendy and it's strong enough to sever her ties? I dunno. This is just my theory and interpretation as to the current reason as to why Lune Blossoms are the ticket. Klei honestly shot themselves in the foot by not adding a dark petal variant that's not just a negative sanity aura. They did confirm they will be focusing on the fixing Wendy's Aesthetic in the future, so we'll have to wait and see. Until then, this will be my working theory, since this post has caused me to reflect on this a bit. 

[WenericMember]

17 minutes ago, Giovirtual79 said:

I do think this is just a major oversight. My headcanon is that since the Celestial Crown is a drop from Celestial Champion, who is a bastion of THEM, it has some ties to THEM that drowns out Abgiail. A lot of character quotes describe hearing whispers from the crown and Wormwood even says it allows him to hear THEM. Wanda also mentions seeing stuff, so it could do something to that.




With that said, I don't think it's too farfetched that while THEM themselves could potentially sever the ties between Wendy and Abigail, the mysterious powers of the moon could still make sense in getting the closest Wendy has gotten to reviving Abigail. A common theme about the Lunar side of DST is the theme of resurrection or the rebirth of pre-existing life, at least from what I've seen. Examples of this can be seen all over the Lunar Island with life such as Saladmanders, Carrats, Lunar Spiders, and Moonrock Pengulls. There's also the bigger examples, such as Hounds resurrecting when killed on the Lunar Island and the 3 Giants (Bearger, Varg, and Deerclops) being resurrected when you have the Lunar Rifts activated. Because of this, I can definitely see how Lunar Blossoms being helpful to Abigail and make Wendy see it as the closest she has gotten to reviving Abigail. Maybe the powers of the Enlightened Crown are just too strong for Wendy and it's strong enough to sever her ties? I dunno. This is just my theory and interpretation as to the current reason as to why Lune Blossoms are the ticket. Klei honestly shot themselves in the foot by not adding a dark petal variant that's not just a negative sanity aura. They did confirm they will be focusing on the fixing Wendy's Aesthetic in the future, so we'll have to wait and see. Until then, this will be my working theory, since this post has caused me to reflect on this a bit. 

I never thought about that interpretation as close as we've ever come to revival. I was hoping for a quote like that to be somewhere in the tree so that's really cool. I only thought of it as "close personal connection," which didn't make a lot of sense in context. c:

I think that interpretation is probably correct. Despite being lunar fights, the Host of Horrors bosses don't use lunacy, just regular sanity. So once an object has been mutated by lunar energies, it doesn't necessarily become a conduit for lunar power. The celestial crown channels gesalts, whereas the lunar blossoms are just mutated - same as the Lunar Bosses.

 

Since winona got her tree, which had her actively searching for Charlie, I've been hoping that Wendy's tree would add some progression to her goal of reviving Abigail. It seems the lune blossom quest does just that, which makes sense.

[Grove]

4 hours ago, Giovirtual79 said:

I do think this is just a major oversight. My headcanon is that since the Celestial Crown is a drop from Celestial Champion, who is a bastion of THEM, it has some ties to THEM that drowns out Abgiail. A lot of character quotes describe hearing whispers from the crown and Wormwood even says it allows him to hear THEM. Wanda also mentions seeing stuff, so it could do something to that.




With that said, I don't think it's too farfetched that while THEM themselves could potentially sever the ties between Wendy and Abigail, the mysterious powers of the moon could still make sense in getting the closest Wendy has gotten to reviving Abigail. A common theme about the Lunar side of DST is the theme of resurrection or the rebirth of pre-existing life, at least from what I've seen. Examples of this can be seen all over the Lunar Island with life such as Saladmanders, Carrats, Lunar Spiders, and Moonrock Pengulls. There's also the bigger examples, such as Hounds resurrecting when killed on the Lunar Island and the 3 Giants (Bearger, Varg, and Deerclops) being resurrected when you have the Lunar Rifts activated. Because of this, I can definitely see how Lunar Blossoms being helpful to Abigail and make Wendy see it as the closest she has gotten to reviving Abigail. Maybe the powers of the Enlightened Crown are just too strong for Wendy and it's strong enough to sever her ties? I dunno. This is just my theory and interpretation as to the current reason as to why Lune Blossoms are the ticket. Klei honestly shot themselves in the foot by not adding a dark petal variant that's not just a negative sanity aura. They did confirm they will be focusing on the fixing Wendy's Aesthetic in the future, so we'll have to wait and see. Until then, this will be my working theory, since this post has caused me to reflect on this a bit. 

I do think lunar magic is connected with rebirth and stuff, but it's always as something different, twisted.

Which is why I think Gestalt Abby makes sense, it's Abby getting changed by lunar energy. Though, it's weird that it strengthens the connection with ghost Abby. Which is connected to shadows.

Even the grave skills expand on this, ghosts somehow spawn evil flowers. Probably by converting the flowers you decorate their graves with with their weird inherit connection to nightmare fuel and shadows. Nightmare fuel does grow stuff, as seen in the ancient murals where it's used on carrots, so probably something similar.

One thing I do find interesting, is that if I remember correctly, the alignments make no mention of Charlie/the shadow queen, neither THEM, shadow or lunar, or Wagstaff/the cryptic founder.

4 hours ago, WenericMember said:

think that interpretation is probably correct. Despite being lunar fights, the Host of Horrors bosses don't use lunacy, just regular sanity. So once an object has been mutated by lunar energies, it doesn't necessarily become a conduit for lunar power. The celestial crown channels gesalts, whereas the lunar blossoms are just mutated - same as the Lunar Bosses.

Lunacy seems to stem only from the moon itself. Even Celestial Champion doesn't use lunacy if you lure it to land.

Heck even fragments from the moon such as moonrock don't seem to activate lunacy. 

They are lunar aligned, and you can still see the gestalts in them mid fight, so they probably are a conduit for lunar energies. They also share themes with other mutated creatures, such as the crystals seen on their bodies, in shattered spiders, lunar grotto, and kinda in moonrock pengulls, rocks not crystals but close enough.

4 hours ago, Giovirtual79 said:

A common theme about the Lunar side of DST is the theme of resurrection or the rebirth of pre-existing life

Would also like to add that the shadow side seems to match more with this, kinda.

While the lunar side seems more focused with the body. As both deerclops and bearger don't act like themselves after getting resurrected. Pengulls are also more hostile.

So, I do think it's possible for lunar energies to make Abby more physical, just that it wouldn't necessarily work with ghost Abby.

Similar to how Woodie's shadow alignment doesn't change him or give him nee abilities. It just makes shadow creatures choose to not attack. Probably cause Woodie's transformations are fueled by lunar energies and thus shadow magic can't exactly help him

One additional 'revived' thing, is that it seems that the den of shattered spiders seems to be a spiderqueen, that also went through this whole crystallization thing.

Shadow side seems more occupied with reviving the mind. Seen in the shadow reaper. It even mentions shedding its skin, so the theories about shadow creatures being ancients are probably true.

Shadow creatures are also definitely more sentient. Able to be called off by Charlie, like in Woodie's shadow alignment. And they're not as prone to in group hostility like the lunar creatures are. There's also the Klei videos where they travel with Charlie and seem to be pretty aware of what's going on.

The ink blights even work together, with the newest one using stealth.

They don't seem to be in pain, I guess?

Body vs Mind thing idk.

Spider queen resurrection: Pretty horrific.

Spoiler

.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 12/18/2024 at 5:53 AM, Dingle said:

Hello! I'm going to post my long Wendy playtests in here. I did the same for Wortox, along with a lot of feedback. I don't have tons of time to play, so I generally play for an hour here and there. I want to do real playthroughs, so I'm going to limit myself to 20 days or so (probably) and see what I can do.

Background on me: I ruins rush a lot as a lot of characters. I don't play Wendy much, as I never liked her pipspook stuff. I have done ruins rushes as her, but haven't really played her for at least a year.

Here's my first playthrough! I'm pretty rusty on boss killing in general (except AG), so I figured I would let myself do rollbacks. This one is a test run.

PLAYTHROUGH 1

Build and Strategy

This was my build.

I did this because I figure right now, there's really no reason to not just go for Sisturn 3. It is a brainless choice, it's the obvious winning strategy. My strategy was to rush lune blossoms, then kill bosses.

It strikes me how open and free form Wendy's tree is. Probably because of a combination of it originally being designed to be much weaker, and a lot of skills getting consolidated due to general complaints. She has no locks (except for the affinities), and very, very little filler. It's pretty crazy how loose her tree is, and how cheap everything is.

I got the grave talent to mess with bigspooks, and to make pipspooks even easier. I really ended up liking it. I'll keep it.

I got Team Spirit I just because I grabbed everything else important.

The extra potion talent is fun, though I may not get that in future playthroughs. It's pretty overkill. If I just got the Picnic Casket, I could spend 3 points in.... ???? No idea. Maybe Attack Here. Like I said, her skill tree is so freeform that I feel like I have EXTRA points, and I'm not making any hard decisions.

I usually train a Beefalo, but decided not to this time. I didn't want to mess with that and a "new" character at the same time.

The Run

I find Mosaic right away. It's connected to Bee Queen. Which is a screen away from Dragonfly. Which is right next to the marble setpiece. Amazing.

I put my base and loot down day 5 next to Bee Queen. I haven't found a spider biome at this point. I move all the graves from Mosaic to next to Bee Queen.

The very next day, I see a super easy message in a bottle in the river next to Swamp. I put a grass raft in it, and grab the bottle. My hope was that I'd find a bottle so I could get lune blossoms very easily from Crabby Hermit. That way, I wouldn't need to find Moon Island at all.
 

 

Crabby Hermit ends up being off the shore next to my base!

On the way to Crabby Hermit, I run into TWO salt biomes full of cookie cutter shells. And a Fallounder school of fish. I would have killed for this luck when I was trying to rush Pearl as Wortox.

Day 9, I have my Lune Blossoms. I put them in the Sisturn, as I believe that preserves them. However, I still have no spider silk or glands. So I start heading to Swamp.

At this point, I dawdle a lot. I get a lot of supplies, because I'm waiting for Day 11. My thoughts were I could then get the full moon ghosts to also help me kill Bee Queen. This turned out to be a big waste of time: The normal ghosts just disappear when they see a boss. Only the Bigspooks can help you. I end up rolling back a couple times, because it's hard to tell what was going on with the ghosts. I thought they were just despawning for no reason. In the end, I end up running from Bee Queen so she despawns, and preparing to fight her in the daytime of day 12, instead.

Day 12, I fight her and it goes amazingly well. I have 5 Bigspooks with me, which add another 62.5 AOE DPS. Abby starts the fight with Nightshade Nostrum, so 102.5 AOE DPS. I have 2 marble suits, and a nearly stale ham bat because I did not want to look for meat. So my damage isn't as great as it could be.

The lune blossoms for this fight were probably overkill. I'm not even sure if Abby got hit. With help from the Bigspooks, the Grumble Bees melt. I also see the Bigspooks occasionally take a hit from a grumble or Bee Queen herself, defending Abby from damage. If a Bigspook dies or BQ gets too far away, it merely respawns.

I'll use these again, at least for Bee Queen. They drastically reduce the resource cost of the fight. It's 3 flowers per grave to spawn a Bigspook, and it seems like they last for more than a day before the grave turns back into normal.

I completely forgot to catch bees to Murder to turn her into Shadow Abby. I also forget to do this in the next boss fight.

I did not use a single potion except a Nightshade Nostrum. I've heard from another person playing that this is typical now. If you use Bigspooks or just use Shadow Abby, you really don't need any other potion now. So the fight got even cheaper.

I take a Jellybean break, using the kelp and planted kelp I got from Pearl Island. I also have a salt bin now, and no fridge.

I then wrap up my lune blossoms into a bundling wrap, so they last even longer.

I build a single pig house and feed the pig monster meat, so I can get a new ham bat fast. Then it's time for Dragonfly!

I moved 3 Bigspooks there. They may be worth it if you can do 5, just for the extra DPS. I didn't want to pick more flowers.

If you dig up a decorated grave, I think you only randomly get 0-2 flowers back.

I was incredibly out of practice with Dragonfly. However, I killed her first try. Her AI kept glitching out though, running to make more larvae. Maybe the bigspooks messed it up?

My strategy was going to be just tanking Dragonfly with Abby, but Dragonfly will just hit Wendy if you're close. So I very clumsily would count 6 hits and then dodge, instead. Abigail made this way easier than normal: If you would have failed to dodge otherwise, he just hits Abby.

I had a Revenant Restorative on Abby, and that's all I ever needed, one single potion. I kept messing up the pan flute versus the Enrage, because I forgot you're supposed to unsummon Abby first. The "Attack here" command actually would have helped a lot for this.

At one point I even messed up and Enraged Dragonfly stomped on Abby multiple times. No problem. Whatever. She's really tanky now.

After doing this once, I think I could do it way, way better next time haha.

Then I went back to the Sisturn and wrapped up my Blossoms. They got to Stale. Next time, I would definitely go for Bee Queen first, THEN get blossoms. Oh, and I'd also get a net first, so I could catch and replant the lune moths in my base for new trees.

 

First run over! Next time I play, I'll probably flip a coin to decide if I go for a Beefalo or not. Also, my world was accidentally set to Large, and I usually play Medium. So I will fix those settings.

My next playthrough strategy will be the same, except I'll get Team Spirit 2. Not sure what else. Oh, and I'll remember to actually use Shadow Abigail.

General Feedback

1. Wendy feels very cozy and comfortable. Abigail floats around you and murders everything. A lot of my early hunger and healing needs was just taken care of by a pile of butterflies. I even used Butter Muffins as healing for Bee Queen.

2. Skill Tree feels like the most loose and free form out of the entire roster of characters. This doesn't seem to be intentional, going by developer notes.

3. I really like the new flower controls now. I know a lot of Wendy mains don't like the change, though. I always had problems with unsummoning her.

4. The elixir change that lets you just right click them to use them is great!

Ran out of time, that's all I have for now.

first wendy on forums to actually show some gameplay and good feedback, never thought the day would come /j

but yea, ive gather after playing her myself (and reading ur post) lune blossom stuff never comes into play for prerift bosses, yet the wendy players still want it as accessible and as early as possible (not to mention the attack at/escape commands basically fulfilling what abi would ever need now)

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, IAmAFurrz said:

first wendy on forums to actually show some gameplay and good feedback, never thought the day would come /j

but yea, ive gather after playing her myself (and reading ur post) lune blossom stuff never comes into play for prerift bosses, yet the wendy players still want it as accessible and as early as possible (not to mention the attack at/escape commands basically fulfilling what abi would ever need now)

Them saying the little lune quest is too inaccessible is pretty bad. You really just have to open one message in a bottle. Bring a bug net and you're set forever. You dont even need to chop them down when they're tall, medium is fine.

When I continue my playthrough, I was going to go underground to grab the bundling wrap of lune blossoms I left there. Thinking about it, I doubt I need to because the lune trees in my base should be grown already.

Pre rift bosses that lune flowers/Sisturn 3 work on that I know of:

Fuelweaver, lets you just brute force it and play terribly. This probably is the best use for them.

Dragonfly if you want to be really, really lazy and not really want to learn the kiting timing much. I did this in my first playthrough. I wouldn't say it adds much at all.

Bearger.

Bee queen: not necessary, but if you get lune blossoms right before, it could save you a Cure All. Though if you use shadow abby or bigspooks,  you probably won't need a cure all, anyway. I did this in first playthrough, and it helped because I didn't practice the marble suit strategy at all, I just knew about it.

Nightmare Werepig.

But yeah, like you said, learning to use the Team Spirit commands well means you don't really need the sisturn 3 buff on any of these. But on the other hand, sisturn 3's sheer power right now means you never really need to learn how to use the team spirit commands.

[IAmAFurrz]

On 12/29/2024 at 5:53 AM, Dingle said:

Them saying the little lune quest is too inaccessible is pretty bad. You really just have to open one message in a bottle. Bring a bug net and you're set forever. You dont even need to chop them down when they're tall, medium is fine.

When I continue my playthrough, I was going to go underground to grab the bundling wrap of lune blossoms I left there. Thinking about it, I doubt I need to because the lune trees in my base should be grown already.

Pre rift bosses that lune flowers/Sisturn 3 work on that I know of:

Fuelweaver, lets you just brute force it and play terribly. This probably is the best use for them.

Dragonfly if you want to be really, really lazy and not really want to learn the kiting timing much. I did this in my first playthrough. I wouldn't say it adds much at all.

Bearger.

Bee queen: not necessary, but if you get lune blossoms right before, it could save you a Cure All. Though if you use shadow abby or bigspooks,  you probably won't need a cure all, anyway. I did this in first playthrough, and it helped because I didn't practice the marble suit strategy at all, I just knew about it.

Nightmare Werepig.

But yeah, like you said, learning to use the Team Spirit commands well means you don't really need the sisturn 3 buff on any of these. But on the other hand, sisturn 3's sheer power right now means you never really need to learn how to use the team spirit commands.

its awful to give wendy this cuz then lune blossoms just make ghastly experience + team spirit pointless (team spirit especially, since i feel its the coolest way to make wendy be able to control abi skillfully).

also, on nightmare werepig, surprisingly was not hard for me. because of how abi lags behind before moving with me, she conveniently starts moving JUST after nmwp attacks so she doesnt get hit much

and about them thinking lune blossoms being inaccessible, they are NOT beating the noob allegations :skull: (they literally use 'dont stupid shame us' as an argument when i tried to explain the reason not everyones opinions are taken at the same weight is because vets are often more informed). i dont like to assume but jeez they act so childishly, they derail the discussion and then blame me to doing so l:|

[WenericMember]

On 12/29/2024 at 12:39 AM, Debruh said:

I do think lunar magic is connected with rebirth and stuff, but it's always as something different, twisted.

Which is why I think Gestalt Abby makes sense, it's Abby getting changed by lunar energy. Though, it's weird that it strengthens the connection with ghost Abby. Which is connected to shadows.

Even the grave skills expand on this, ghosts somehow spawn evil flowers. Probably by converting the flowers you decorate their graves with with their weird inherit connection to nightmare fuel and shadows. Nightmare fuel does grow stuff, as seen in the ancient murals where it's used on carrots, so probably something similar.

One thing I do find interesting, is that if I remember correctly, the alignments make no mention of Charlie/the shadow queen, neither THEM, shadow or lunar, or Wagstaff/the cryptic founder.

Lunacy seems to stem only from the moon itself. Even Celestial Champion doesn't use lunacy if you lure it to land.

Heck even fragments from the moon such as moonrock don't seem to activate lunacy. 

They are lunar aligned, and you can still see the gestalts in them mid fight, so they probably are a conduit for lunar energies. They also share themes with other mutated creatures, such as the crystals seen on their bodies, in shattered spiders, lunar grotto, and kinda in moonrock pengulls, rocks not crystals but close enough.

Would also like to add that the shadow side seems to match more with this, kinda.

While the lunar side seems more focused with the body. As both deerclops and bearger don't act like themselves after getting resurrected. Pengulls are also more hostile.

So, I do think it's possible for lunar energies to make Abby more physical, just that it wouldn't necessarily work with ghost Abby.

Similar to how Woodie's shadow alignment doesn't change him or give him nee abilities. It just makes shadow creatures choose to not attack. Probably cause Woodie's transformations are fueled by lunar energies and thus shadow magic can't exactly help him

One additional 'revived' thing, is that it seems that the den of shattered spiders seems to be a spiderqueen, that also went through this whole crystallization thing.

Shadow side seems more occupied with reviving the mind. Seen in the shadow reaper. It even mentions shedding its skin, so the theories about shadow creatures being ancients are probably true.

Shadow creatures are also definitely more sentient. Able to be called off by Charlie, like in Woodie's shadow alignment. And they're not as prone to in group hostility like the lunar creatures are. There's also the Klei videos where they travel with Charlie and seem to be pretty aware of what's going on.

The ink blights even work together, with the newest one using stealth.

They don't seem to be in pain, I guess?

Body vs Mind thing idk.

Spider queen resurrection: Pretty horrific.

  Hide contents

.

I think the other thing is... It's a ritual developed by Wendy, that is happening on her own terms. The gesalts, Wagstaff and Alter don't care about the things they're mutating, so they do what it takes for strength with no regard of the original creature. On the other hand this ritual by Wendy would be specifically designed to not affect abigail negatively.

[Grove]

Just now, WenericMember said:

I think the other thing is... It's a ritual developed by Wendy, that is happening on her own terms. The gesalts, Wagstaff and Alter don't care about the things they're mutating, so they do what it takes for strength with no regard of the original creature. On the other hand this ritual by Wendy would be specifically designed to not affect abigail negatively.

Yea, I don't think it will effect her negatively, I just find it strange that it can reach with her, ghost version, at all. Since she contains traces of nightmare magic.

Wendy and Abby experimenting does fit. All the cast seems to try and fiddle with their powers, but they have greater incentive to do so. The not affiliated with Charlie/Wagstaff/Either them/etc... is really cool

[WenericMember]

Just now, Debruh said:

Yea, I don't think it will effect her negatively, I just find it strange that it can reach with her, ghost version, at all. Since she contains traces of nightmare magic.

Wendy and Abby experimenting does fit. All the cast seems to try and fiddle with their powers, but they have greater incentive to do so. The not affiliated with Charlie/Wagstaff/Either them/etc... is really cool

Yeah. I was really hoping to see Wendy experiment with reviving Abigail with her skill tree, and I can't express how glad I am it was added.

It was by far my favourite part of Winona's tree (to see her seeking Charlie) and I love that it's here aswell.

[Dingle]

10 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

its awful to give wendy this cuz then lune blossoms just make ghastly experience + team spirit pointless (team spirit especially, since i feel its the coolest way to make wendy be able to control abi skillfully).

Yeah haha.

10 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

also, on nightmare werepig, surprisingly was not hard for me. because of how abi lags behind before moving with me, she conveniently starts moving JUST after nmwp attacks so she doesnt get hit much

and about them thinking lune blossoms being inaccessible, they are NOT beating the noob allegations :skull: (they literally use 'dont stupid shame us' as an argument when i tried to explain the reason not everyones opinions are taken at the same weight is because vets are often more informed). i dont like to assume but jeez they act so childishly, they derail the discussion and then blame me to doing so l:|

I got used to kiting Werepig with Abby very quickly and easily. It just went really bad once I started getting angry at NMWP getting kited around for enemies.

The "because it's inaccessible for casual players" argument generally seems really disingenuous. All the buffs are "for casuals", except the perks designed "for casuals" are "bad" and should be replaced. All the buffs are "for casuals", except it needs to be tweaked for long term veteran Wendy players.

It's a mystery (it's not a mystery).

[Grove]

13 hours ago, IAmAFurrz said:

on nightmare werepig, surprisingly was not hard for me. because of how abi lags behind before moving with me, she conveniently starts moving JUST after nmwp attacks so she doesnt get hit much

I find fighting Nightmare Werepig so funny as Wendy&Abby. Because it always reminds me of those scenes in movies and shows where the main character falls in between two bullies. It's literally what happens, he falls between you and Abby, and you damage him while he's on the ground. 

[IAmAFurrz]

11 hours ago, Debruh said:

I find fighting Nightmare Werepig so funny as Wendy&Abby. Because it always reminds me of those scenes in movies and shows where the main character falls in between two bullies. It's literally what happens, he falls between you and Abby, and you damage him while he's on the ground. 

lmao yeaaaa he constantly trips and falls between the 2

[Dingle]

PLAYTHROUGH 2 - PART 4

Just a little bit of time to play, so I killed Klaus. Was really easy. I chopped a couple medium  (not even the big ones) Lune Trees before I left to find the No Eyed Deer, and they each dropped two lune blossoms. Used a Revenant Restorative and a Vex. An Ornery really nukes things with Vex on. Then I murdered some Tallbirds and got the Celestial Orb.

Wendy blinked, ruining the picture.

I then spent a little bit of time in base. I believe the Lune Blossoms were put in on day 34 evening, and I checked them again on day 36. They lost maybe 10% durability, if that? They must last a really long time in the Sisturn. Maybe 10 days?

I then noticed all my Lune Trees had grown to at least medium, with some Tall ones now. This made me realize that wrapping the lune blossoms was completely unnecessary. Once you go to Crab Hermit island or lunar island once with a bug net, you're just set forever. You just drop a bug net or two and a golden axe near your lune trees, and chop down 2-4 whenever you need. This also gives you a lot of wood, because they're lune trees.

Next time: Day 37 is when the Cave Rifts should be open. I'll probably see how Abby does against the shadow trio (no idea if lune blossoms work on them, I'll test), and then call it quits for this playthrough.

I am not sure if I will do a third playthrough, after all. Other people already made it clear that Wendy/Abigail does great with lunar rifts open, which is what I was going to test next (on a world where they just start open).

Extra Klaus details:

I just kept Abby on soothed, and out the entire fight.

Escape and the very occasional attack here for repositioning let me make her swap between which deer she was hurting. Ice one had a third health at end, fire one had half.

I didn't use Murder again haha. I could have just caught killer bees, but I didnt want the deer to take even more damage by mistake.

I should also kill dragonfly with vex elixir before I quit the playthrough! Maybe shadow pieces again but only if I remember where I put their blueprints.

[Grove]

49 minutes ago, Dingle said:

I just kept Abby on soothed, and out the entire fight.

Escape and the very occasional attack here for repositioning let me make her swap between which deer she was hurting. Ice one had a third health at end, fire one had half.

I tried the Klaus fight, and it seems that scare is the best option. As it keeps the deer away at a distance, not to far as to engrage though, and prevents spells.

If yout timing is good, you can do it so that Klaus tries to use the spells with no effect. Scare will not interrupt the spells though, use it a bit before, idk tbh

52 minutes ago, Dingle said:

am not sure if I will do a third playthrough, after all. Other people already made it clear that Wendy/Abigail does great with lunar rifts open, which is what I was going to test next (on a world where they just start open).

Tested this. And they do amazingl, specially shadow Abby.

Tested a gestalt Abby one. And a shadow Abby one

Seems like shadow Abby with murder alone outperforms gestalt Abby+player tag+lunar elixir. Just killed a possessed varg on a beef with a normal saddle, no vex elixir, and it seems like shadow Abby's planar damage knocks down the varg during its flamethrower.

Which is actually pretty cool. Since it means that Wendy can take it out early, so that normal hunts can appear. And if it works for bearger, then he just got easier.

Gestalt Abby with lunar elixir does do planar damage if I remember correctly, but might not attack on time.

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Debruh said:

I tried the Klaus fight, and it seems that scare is the best option. As it keeps the deer away at a distance, not to far as to engrage though, and prevents spells.

If yout timing is good, you can do it so that Klaus tries to use the spells with no effect. Scare will not interrupt the spells though, use it a bit before, idk tbh

Tested this. And they do amazingl, specially shadow Abby.

Tested a gestalt Abby one. And a shadow Abby one

Seems like shadow Abby with murder alone outperforms gestalt Abby+player tag+lunar elixir. Just killed a possessed varg on a beef with a normal saddle, no vex elixir, and it seems like shadow Abby's planar damage knocks down the varg during its flamethrower.

Which is actually pretty cool. Since it means that Wendy can take it out early, so that normal hunts can appear. And if it works for bearger, then he just got easier.

Gestalt Abby with lunar elixir does do planar damage if I remember correctly, but might not attack on time.

Great to hear on Scare. I didn't have it, but I bet it would be especially great in multiplayer servers. Just have everyone dogpile on Klaus if you dont have to worry about the spells.

Thanks for the tidbit or Murder Abby counting as a stun for lunar bosses.

Lardee also posted a bunch of videos on Wendy vs Armored Bearger, because people kept bringing that up as a "but Wendy is bad on rifts!" example. Spoilers: You can stomp it with either team spirit or sisturn 3, it dies in about a minute either way (character average time is 1.5 minutes). And she just seems to nuke lunar varg and crystal deerclops.

I was maybe going to even do a playthrough where I showed how easy it was to get Graven Elixirs, but I don't see the point really. I know it's easy due to messing with forget me nots for tea.

I'll probably mess around a bit in this playthrough, post final feedback, and then go back to Wortox.

[Grove]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

Great to hear on Scare. I didn't have it, but I bet it would be especially great in multiplayer servers. Just have everyone dogpile on Klaus if you dont have to worry about the spell

Forgot to add though, be careful with where Abby is, as she can stunlock the deer for a bit.. if she does it enough times, you get an enraged Klaus

 

2 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Lardee also posted a bunch of videos on Wendy vs Armored Bearger, because people kept bringing that up as a "but Wendy is bad on rifts!" example. Spoilers: You can stomp it with either team spirit or sisturn 3, it dies in about a minute either way (character average time is 1.5 minutes). And she just seems to nuke lunar varg and crystal deerclops

Yea, saw them. Also tested lunar bosses myself. I think others have tested it too, such as piggy princess

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Yea, saw them. Also tested lunar bosses myself. I think others have tested it too, such as piggy princess

Once all that lunar testing got out, it made the forums a lot quieter, haha.

[Grove]

3 hours ago, Dingle said:

Thanks for the tidbit or Murder Abby counting as a stun for lunar bosses.

After some testing, I couldn't get it to work on bearger.. and because I missed this, Varg needs on attack during cold slam, while bearger needs two after a buttslam. Still, Shadow Abby still helps with bearger. You can also use only murder and nightshade with a hambat and kill the possessed varg pretty quickly. You can just dodge to let it target Abby when it bites lol. Only problem is the cold breath attack.

[DegenerateFurry]

I've been doing this a bit myself. I fought the Shadow Pieces and took advantage of the new graves skills to do it. My order was Bishop -> Rook -> Knight, because the Knight is the only single-target attacker. I didn't have an active Sisturn at the time because I'd just gotten back from rushing the ruins for more free graves, so Blessed Sisturn III didn't factor into this fight. 

It actually went very well. The ghosts did a surprising amount of damage and the Knight got distracted by all of them, not taking out either me or Abigail, although I did still have to burn a few Cure-Alls to keep her from dying. 

I tried the same strategy against Dragonfly and it doesn't work nearly as well. The ghosts follow Dragonfly past the wall, which makes it get stuck away from you until it kills them all after it finishes its spawn phase, which means it'll probably enrage before it gets back to you. Also, if a ghost's hitting it, you can't sleep it out of being enraged. Graves are definitely bad versus Dragonfly, but it does have the benefit of letting you do enough damage (I was using my dark sword from the Shadow Pieces as my weapon) to stunlock Dragonfly and get an extra scale.

I also fought Klaus, and the Team Spirit commands let me use Abigail throughout the whole fight without killing his deer, which was great. 

[Dingle]

1 hour ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I've been doing this a bit myself. I fought the Shadow Pieces and took advantage of the new graves skills to do it. My order was Bishop -> Rook -> Knight, because the Knight is the only single-target attacker. I didn't have an active Sisturn at the time because I'd just gotten back from rushing the ruins for more free graves, so Blessed Sisturn III didn't factor into this fight. 

It actually went very well. The ghosts did a surprising amount of damage and the Knight got distracted by all of them, not taking out either me or Abigail, although I did still have to burn a few Cure-Alls to keep her from dying. 

I tried the same strategy against Dragonfly and it doesn't work nearly as well. The ghosts follow Dragonfly past the wall, which makes it get stuck away from you until it kills them all after it finishes its spawn phase, which means it'll probably enrage before it gets back to you. Also, if a ghost's hitting it, you can't sleep it out of being enraged. Graves are definitely bad versus Dragonfly, but it does have the benefit of letting you do enough damage (I was using my dark sword from the Shadow Pieces as my weapon) to stunlock Dragonfly and get an extra scale.

I also fought Klaus, and the Team Spirit commands let me use Abigail throughout the whole fight without killing his deer, which was great. 

Using Bigspooks on the shadow knight is really interesting!

3 bigspooks do almost as much damage as Abigail does at night. Only 2.5 dps lower, a bit less than 95% of Abby.

Yeah, I'd also say graves aren't worth it on dragonfly for the most part, though I wonder what the minimum is for getting the extra scale. Could vex elixir + murder buff shadow abby + a hambat let you get the scale with no bigspooks, for example. I'll test this before I retire the world.

From another thread (or maybe this thread too), Wendy is also really strong against Shadow Bishop now due to Escape. That may be the optimum choice over Knight + bigspooks, but not sure.

Maybe even Bishop + bigspooks might work, as bigspooks just resurrect when killed anyway.

[Dingle]

2 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

I've been doing this a bit myself. I fought the Shadow Pieces and took advantage of the new graves skills to do it. My order was Bishop -> Rook -> Knight, because the Knight is the only single-target attacker. I didn't have an active Sisturn at the time because I'd just gotten back from rushing the ruins for more free graves, so Blessed Sisturn III didn't factor into this fight. 

It actually went very well. The ghosts did a surprising amount of damage and the Knight got distracted by all of them, not taking out either me or Abigail, although I did still have to burn a few Cure-Alls to keep her from dying. 

I tried the same strategy against Dragonfly and it doesn't work nearly as well. The ghosts follow Dragonfly past the wall, which makes it get stuck away from you until it kills them all after it finishes its spawn phase, which means it'll probably enrage before it gets back to you. Also, if a ghost's hitting it, you can't sleep it out of being enraged. Graves are definitely bad versus Dragonfly, but it does have the benefit of letting you do enough damage (I was using my dark sword from the Shadow Pieces as my weapon) to stunlock Dragonfly and get an extra scale.

I also fought Klaus, and the Team Spirit commands let me use Abigail throughout the whole fight without killing his deer, which was great. 

Oh, forgot to add:

Blessed Sisturn III doesn't work on the shadow pieces, anyway. There's various bosses it just doesn't work on. It's pretty random.

[DegenerateFurry]

2 hours ago, Dingle said:

Oh, forgot to add:

Blessed Sisturn III doesn't work on the shadow pieces, anyway. There's various bosses it just doesn't work on. It's pretty random.

It's not that it's random, it's that some bosses have doubled damage against mobs while others do the same amount to players and mobs. 

Bosses that do the same regardless of target type:

• Ancient Guardian
• Shadow Pieces (all, all stages)
• Lord of the Fruit Flies (does he even count?)
• Crab King's imposing claws
• Nightmare Werepig
• Possessed Varg
• Frostjaw
• Great Depths Worm
• Scrappy Werepig
• Spider Queen
• Toadstool
• Ancient Fuelweaver

Bosses that do doubled damage to mobs: 

• Bearger
• Deerclops
• Moose/Goose
• Antlion
• Bee Queen
• Crystal Deerclops
• Armored Bearger
• Malbatross
• Dragonfly
• Eye of Terror
• Twins of Terror
• Treeguards
• Klaus

Celestial Champion also does extra damage to mobs with most of its attacks, but it's only a little bit more rather than doubled. 

This is why I don't think Blessed Sisturn III is as powerful as people say it is. Half of the bosses (including all the shadow boss questline) aren't even affected by it, and at least half of the ones that are affected by it are bosses you shouldn't be having too much trouble keeping Abigail alive against anyway.  

[Dingle]

9 hours ago, DegenerateFurry said:

It's not that it's random, it's that some bosses have doubled damage against mobs while others do the same amount to players and mobs. 

Bosses that do the same regardless of target type:

• Ancient Guardian
• Shadow Pieces (all, all stages)
• Lord of the Fruit Flies (does he even count?)
• Crab King's imposing claws
• Nightmare Werepig
• Possessed Varg
• Frostjaw
• Great Depths Worm
• Scrappy Werepig
• Spider Queen
• Toadstool
• Ancient Fuelweaver

Bosses that do doubled damage to mobs: 

• Bearger
• Deerclops
• Moose/Goose
• Antlion
• Bee Queen
• Crystal Deerclops
• Armored Bearger
• Malbatross
• Dragonfly
• Eye of Terror
• Twins of Terror
• Treeguards
• Klaus

Celestial Champion also does extra damage to mobs with most of its attacks, but it's only a little bit more rather than doubled. 

This is why I don't think Blessed Sisturn III is as powerful as people say it is. Half of the bosses (including all the shadow boss questline) aren't even affected by it, and at least half of the ones that are affected by it are bosses you shouldn't be having too much trouble keeping Abigail alive against anyway.  

Wait, Fuelweaver doesn't do double damage? Are you sure? Abby was tanking him for me pretty well with sisturn 3 up, but maybe I was mistaken and Abby can always tank him with cure alls.

If the word "random" doesn't fit for you, maybe "arbitrary" works better. It's pretty arbitrary as to what bosses use player tag or not. What's the developer logic? How is a player supposed to know beforehand, without a wiki?