Why Abigail's Boss Survivability Change Is a Win for Casual Wendy Mains

[Debruh]

8 minutes ago, renamoe said:

"pooping perogies"

Why is it censored? Manure and poop exist in game. And Wormwood just got a skill acknowledges this

[Mr Giggio]

4 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

she is even more fragile than Wes

Protect her then.  Shes not alone unless you put her in that spot.

Manage, adapt. Play the game. DO SOMETHING.

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, Shining Galaxy said:

No, this is not my logic, it's just a punching bag that you've shaped yourself. We've had such discussions many times, and I don't see the point in repeating the same views, but let me say it one last time.

That absolutely is your logic. Your argument that "Through the skill tree, allow different people to use different play styles. Not everyone has to play the game the same way as you; you are not our teacher." can be applied to literally any change someone wants to add to the game. 

1 minute ago, Shining Galaxy said:

Abi without player tags, with 600 health, can only withstand hits equivalent to a player equipped with a log suit with 60 health, she is even more fragile than Wes.

So what?

[cyjs]

4 minutes ago, Mr Giggio said:

Protect her then.  Shes not alone unless you put her in that spot.

Manage, adapt. Play the game. DO SOMETHING.

Ignore the previous arguments and intercept the last words to refute. I should be praising your wisdom.

[Lardee]

Just now, Shining Galaxy said:

If you cannot refute my argument, there's no need to force an answer, as it would only make you appear obstinate.

You didn't make an argument. Just stating facts about Abigail's health isn't an argument. 

[Dingle]

Just now, Shining Galaxy said:

If you cannot refute my argument, there's no need to force an answer, as it would only make you appear obstinate.

Abigail isn't a character. She's a summon for another character. You're comparing her to a character.

[Debruh]

1 minute ago, Shining Galaxy said:

She is Wendy's twin sister, her irreplaceable person, not some quantity-over-quality merm or spider army. The other one who has such deep affection can only summon one: BERNIE! And BERNIE! obtained a planar entity stronger than player tags.

And instead of Wendy:

1) Learning how to make her sister avoid attacks

2)Stash her in the flower and continue the fight without her as to not put her in risk of death

She just.. throws her at enemies, doesn't manage or interact with her at all, and fights the same way Wilson or any other character without followers fights?

[Dingle]

5 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

She is Wendy's twin sister, her irreplaceable person, not some quantity-over-quality merm or spider army. The other one who has such deep affection can only summon one: BERNIE! And BERNIE! obtained a planar entity stronger than player tags.

She's a summon for another character. If Abigail was as strong as another character, you would be as strong as two characters. With her powerful aoe and elixirs on top of that.

I would be ok with this if Abigail didn't have elixirs and you had to repair her with sewing kits, like BERNIE. And she no longer had AOE baseline, like BERNIE. She could hit for minor single target damage baseline, like BERNIE, but have a taunt aura.

Maybe after these changes, Wendy could also get a lighter.

[Debruh]

2 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

How does this relate to my argument that Abi is more fragile than Wes? Also, Wendy's characteristic is to fight alongside her sister, and now you're suggesting keeping Abi trapped in a flower and then turning Wendy into Wes?

Never mentioned anything about the Wes comment. I was talking about you bringing up the other followers.

Bernie and merms are both all attack and forget. You don't manage Bernie or merms. Even spiders rarely need to ge managed In contrast to Abby, who needs to be managed. This is what separates her from other followers and keeps her unique

If Wendy, the character, got a choice in the matter. She would probably much rather prefer turning into Wes, rather than make Abby a tank and potentially lose her. So your argument based on lore doesn't hold up

[CremeLover]

@renamoe Thanks for bringing a more calmed perspective over this.
I doubt you're going to change any minds in the forums, but just sharing your experience from a more casual standpoint is enough for the developers to hear your voice, so do not let the endless negativity depress you.

 

 

On a more general note, I'm a bit confused as to why a certain section of this forum is so viciously against this change in particular.

Like, you have Willow, who can make dozens of Bernies and spam them over the boss nonstop, and fully refresh them with a sewing kit, and while is slow, you can actually afk bosses this way.
You have Winona's Catapults doing 900 dps, with infinite ammo with the lunar affinity.
You have Wurt with unlimited overpowered Merms, and can melt even the strongest bosses in seconds.

But Abigail having some damage reduction? This is where everyone apparently draws the line, and apparently is such a disgusting change that they cannot stand what the game would become.
I haven't even seen people advicating for bringing back the old "let abigail rest near sisturn for temporary health", or reduce the damage reduction to 25%. They want every survivability tool from the skill tree gone, and be 100% skill based with the new Abigail commands, get good, and of course, keep her on the health potion at all times.

I do think Abigail is a bit overtuned with how I would like her to be tuned, but going the opposite way in giving 0 survivability and be pure skill based or play the newb lunar variant is such a shallow and uninteresting way to look at her skill tree it just depresses me.

[Lardee]

14 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

She is Wendy's twin sister, her irreplaceable person, not some quantity-over-quality merm or spider army. The other one who has such deep affection can only summon one: BERNIE! And BERNIE! obtained a planar entity stronger than player tags.

Bernie doesn't do AoE, doesn't hit nearly as fast, can't be controlled and doesn't buff Willow's attacks.

If you want to take all the advantages Abigail has over Bernie, in exchange for the player tag, I'm perfectly on board with that. In fact, give her 2,400 HP and planar protection and I'll still be on board.  You want an Abigail with no downsides? No problem, as long as she has to give up all her upsides.

[cyjs]

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

No problem, as long as she has to give up all her upsides.

Have you forgotten that Wu Di exists? His skill tree makes up for all his shortcomings. What do you want?

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, cyjs said:

Maybe Wendy should have a dumbbell so she can crack some people's potato heads open

That's a really good idea. I see Wendy players talk about Wolfgang a lot, too.

Just take Abigail away from Wendy and give her a dumbbell and the might meter, instead.

It would make a lot of "Wendy mains" happy. They obviously don't even like Wendy's gameplay that much, if they constantly talk about other characters with such envy.

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, cyjs said:

Have you forgotten that Wu Di exists? His skill tree makes up for all his shortcomings. What do you want?

Not even close. 

Woodie's greatest downside by far is his inability to use items in wereform. Klei didn't touch this at all. They removed some of the very minor downsides and removed forced transformations because of moonstorms.

[cyjs]

Just now, Dingle said:

That's a really good idea. I see Wendy players talk about Wolfgang a lot, too.

Just take Abigail away from Wendy and give her a dumbbell and the might meter, instead.

It would make a lot of "Wendy mains" happy. They obviously don't even like Wendy's gameplay that much, if they constantly talk about other characters with such envy.

You are a master at changing the subject. Our discussion has strayed from the topic. Let us shut up.

Just now, Lardee said:

Not even close. 

Woodie's greatest downside by far is his inability to use items in wereform. Klei didn't touch this at all. They removed some of the very minor downsides and removed forced transformations because of moonstorms.

Thank you for your knowledge, it is not easy to force a shortcoming

[Dingle]

1 minute ago, cyjs said:

You are a master at changing the subject. Our discussion has strayed from the topic. Let us shut up.

I wasn't the one that brought up other characters!

"Wendy mains" keep bringing up other characters. What about this character? What about that character?

I was just trying to help. Why not just make Wendy exactly like another character? You can simply delete Abigail at that point. Or maybe she can still follow you around, but not really do anything.

[Lardee]

Just now, Shining Galaxy said:

 Qnly equivalent to a player with 60 health is too fragile, while 120, though not much, barely suffices. No matter how easy Abi is to control, it still doesn't match being controlled by the character herself.

Okay, but what makes 60 too fragile?

 

Just now, Shining Galaxy said:

In reality, despite already being recognized as a supermodel, Maxwell's cap of 75 health remains a significant disadvantage that requires a beefalo to compensate for.

lol no, Maxwell doesn't require a beefalo.

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

I wasn't the one that brought up other characters!

"Wendy mains" keep bringing up other characters. What about this character? What about that character?

I was just trying to help. Why not just make Wendy exactly like another character? You can simply delete Abigail at that point. Or maybe she can still follow you around, but not really do anything.

You go on, I'm listening, your point of view is very interesting

[renamoe]

14 minutes ago, CremeLover said:

@renamoe Thanks for bringing a more calmed perspective over this.
I doubt you're going to change any minds in the forums, but just sharing your experience from a more casual standpoint is enough for the developers to hear your voice, so do not let the endless negativity depress you.

 

 

On a more general note, I'm a bit confused as to why a certain section of this forum is so viciously against this change in particular.

Like, you have Willow, who can spam make dozens of Bernies and spam them over the boss nonstop, and fully refresh them with a sewing kit, and while is slow, you can actually afk bosses this way.
You have Winona's Catapults doing 900 dps, with infinite ammo with the lunar affinity.
You have Wurt with unlimited overpowered Merms, and can melt even the strongest bosses in seconds.

But Abigail having some damage reduction? This is where everyone apparently draws the line, and is such a disgusting change that they
I haven't even seen people advicating for bringing back the old "let abigail rest near sisturn for temporary health", or reduce the damage reduction to 25%. They want every survivability tool from the skill tree gone, and be 100% skill based with the new Abigail commands, get good, and of course, keep her on the health potion at all times.

I do think Abigail is a bit overtuned with how I would like her to be tuned, but going the opposite way in giving 0 survivability and be pure skill based or play the newb lunar variant is such a shallow and uninteresting way to look at her skill tree it just depresses me.

Hi, @CremeLover, thank you for your thoughtful comment and support—it really means a lot.

I've seen similar debates before, like when Gestalt Abigail was introduced during the beta and eventually removed by Klei. Despite the negativity, I just want to share my perspective because I think it's important to voice different experiences, even if some discussions feel biased or dismissive.

I genuinely believe boosting Abigail's survivability is a step in the right direction. Many characters have received exciting and impactful updates through their skill trees, so I'm not sure why Wendy and Abigail shouldn't have the same opportunity for meaningful and balanced improvements. It's not about making her overpowered—it's about giving her a fair skill tree that enhances her unique playstyle and encourages players like me to take on more challenges.

Thank you again for your kind words. It helps to know there are people who understand where I'm coming from.

[cyjs]

1 minute ago, Dingle said:

You dismiss my argument without presenting your own, because you know I'm right.

Don't worry, I'll bring this up a lot from now on.

You are so cute and I am looking forward to it. my friend i will take care of you

[Lardee]

3 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

 

Yes, my skills are indeed very poor, and 60 health feels quite fragile to me. I also have to pair with Beefalo when using Maxwell; otherwise, I might really get accidentally killed by the boss, which is why I like cheese boss. Does this satisfy your pathetic ego, dear Lardee?

Why does 60 health with a log suit seem fragile to you for Abigail? I want to hear you actually explain why you think 60 is too low for Abigail beyond "it feels too low".

[Xplan]

3 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

 

Yes, my skills are indeed very poor, and 60 health feels quite fragile to me. I also have to pair with Beefalo when using Maxwell; otherwise, I might really get accidentally killed by the boss, which is why I like cheese boss. Does this satisfy your pathetic ego, dear Lardee?

白匹个范指导隐了，”给喔好好解释解释“

[Echsrick]

consider the following: learn how to skillfully master the game mechanics of your character, instead of demanding to get everything handed to you by doin absolutly nothing, by that point why are you even playing the game?

[Lardee]

8 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

This is merely a translation error; do not blame my AI, perhaps it also finds discussing with you all to be a laborious task. That's what 'too low for me' means. Because I can't manage Abigail well, I'm barely managing on my own.

Give me a specific situation where you're unable to manage Abigail well.

[Echsrick]

1 minute ago, Shining Galaxy said:

You have also become like Arubaro.

for telling you the truth? you are indeed very silly, human