An adjustment for both Casual and Hardcore players to a simply "win-win"

[Steorra]

To make the "Player Tag" become more easier to achieve for average players, but Shadow Sisterhood II is unachievable when "Player Tag" activated; To make Shadow Abi become more fragile, take extra damage, as a balance change for its OP amounts.

These would satisfied two side of people. 

If you want Player Tag, go use regular Abi;

If you want highrisk highreward, you want the "downside", go use Shadow Abi.

Additionally to nerf Pipspook Line for making Cure-All become expensive again. Other elixir would get few impact because they need not "Spamming". Even you may change the Cure-All recipe to make the Life Giving Amulet is one needed material of it.

 

Lunar Abi is still completely broken since no one have interest for current Lunar form. It need more rework and improvement before she joined the discussion.

 

You may see more details about these ideas which also including suggestions for Lunar Abi here: 

 

 

 

I guess there are some people just want to define "what is DST" and they think only one playstyle is allowed here.

 

 

[WenericMember]

In terms of giving Abby fair survivability for those who havent beaten cc/ dont like gesalt abby, I think this is a fair compromise. It brings cure all spam in line with other forms of autobattle, like merms or treeguards.

On top of that, life givibg amulets line up with some of Wendys new perks - gravestones as haunt, so the potion is possible to obtain.

[Lardee]

If you can't accurately define what a casual or hardcore player is, you shouldn't be using those terms.

What, specifically, makes a player casual?

What, specifically, makes a player hardcore?

If you can't answer those questions, any argument that is based on those terms should not be taken seriously.

[Koomin]

6 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If you can't accurately define what a casual or hardcore player is, you shouldn't be using those terms.

What, specifically, makes a player casual?

What, specifically, makes a player hardcore?

If you can't answer those questions, any argument that is based on those terms should not be taken seriously.

I generally agree with your statements on other posts but this person is just proposing solutions here as best as they can, and for what it's worth appear to actually be trying their best to take people's opinions into account that are worried about things becoming too strong or removing downsides.  I'd rather we  support people that are doing this since so many are instead just spam posting for Wendy buffs.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

I'm in favor of this option; there is no need to bring every other mourning glory craft down with Spectral Cure-All just yet.

This idea comes from @WenericMember, I pretty love it since it gave an potential explanation regarding how the interaction between Abi and Life Giving Amulet.

[thesooz9000]

I'm agree with a few of these suggestions

 

I however still think normal abi shouldn't have the player tag, only gestalt abi should.

[WenericMember]

6 minutes ago, Steorra said:

This idea comes from @WenericMember, I pretty love it since it gave an potential explanation regarding how the interaction between Abi and Life Giving Amulet.

Im glad constructive compromises are being made, for a while I thought it was just going to be going around in circles till the end of beta.

12 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If you can't accurately define what a casual or hardcore player is, you shouldn't be using those terms.

What, specifically, makes a player casual?

What, specifically, makes a player hardcore?

If you can't answer those questions, any argument that is based on those terms should not be taken seriously.

I dont think hounding someone into different threads is particularly constructive method of getting people to agree with you.

[thesooz9000]

12 minutes ago, Lardee said:

If you can't accurately define what a casual or hardcore player is, you shouldn't be using those terms.

What, specifically, makes a player casual?

What, specifically, makes a player hardcore?

If you can't answer those questions, any argument that is based on those terms should not be taken seriously.

I would appreciate if they specified what a casual or hardcore player is, but this isn't the way to go about it IMO.

[Lardee]

3 minutes ago, Shining Galaxy said:

None of what you said is constructive, and it's not even relevant to the topic of the post.

What's the title of this thread?

[Steorra]

12 minutes ago, thesooz9000 said:

I'm agree with a few of these suggestions

 

I however still think normal abi shouldn't have the player tag, only gestalt abi should.

WenericMember has give some explanation about the hidden logic behind this change.

Player Tag is aiming to enhance Casual players gameplay, for most of them even the season bosses might be a trouble, and CC is almost impossible quest for them. Therefore Player Tag should be more easier to achieve for these people.

As a price, the crazy Vex effect from Shadow Sisterhood II should be unachievable when Player Tag activated. This is for balance sake. And this keeps the "high reward" based on "high risk". Same logic for extra damage taken of Shadow Abi.

[thesooz9000]

I'd like to assume that a casual player can beat deerclops, but not much beyond that, but a hardcore player can beat all the bosses in the game.

Just now, Steorra said:

WenericMember has give some explanation about the hidden logic behind this change.

Player Tag is aiming to enhance Casual players gameplay, for most of the the season bosses might be a trouble, and CC is almost impossible quest for them. There fore Player Tag should be more easier to achieve for these people.

As a price, the crazy Vex effect from Shadow Sisterhood II should be unachievable when Player Tag activated. This is for balance sake. And this keeps the "high reward" based on "high risk". Same logic for extra damage taken of Shadow Abi.

Yes, I believe that shadow abigail should never be able to have the player tag, would make her far stronger than she already is.

[Koomin]

I love how this suggestion balances out Shadow Abigail's high damage with reduced survivability, gives a reason to choose normal Abigail to get the player tag, and addresses the Cure-all issue with the recipe readjustment, all while still keeping the player tag for people that want it.

Your suggestions have been some of the best at taking everyone's thoughts into account, keep them coming.

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, thesooz9000 said:

I'd like to assume that a casual player can beat deerclops, but not much beyond that, but a hardcore player can beat all the bosses in the game.

See here's the problem. I'm almost 100% certain the @Steorra would disagree with this.

[WenericMember]

Just now, Lardee said:

What's the title of this thread?

You're being particular on semantics. Its an easier abbreviation the. "Players who do and dont enjoy kiting" its not perfectly accurate but it gets the point across.

Theyre trying to create a solution to please both parties, we should work with them rather than arguing over definitions.

[SilverSpoon]

I don't agree that Shabby don't get any benefit from Blessed Sisturn III at all, as it will be a waste of skill tree points after get insight. 
My idea: make Blessed Sisturn III have a different effect even with Dark Petals, and prevent Gestabby from getting that effect.

Spectral cure-all is also needed by beginners to emergency heal Abigail, so requiring a life-giving amulet as a material is too expensive.
My idea: take the middle, I think red gem would be good.

[Lardee]

Just now, WenericMember said:

You're being particular on semantics. Its an easier abbreviation the. "Players who do and dont enjoy kiting" its not perfectly accurate but it gets the point across.

Theyre trying to create a solution to please both parties, we should work with them rather than arguing over definitions.

That's you making an assumption and I don't even think @Steorra would agree with this either.  

[Grove]

25 minutes ago, Steorra said:

Even you may change the Cure-All recipe to make the Life Giving Amulet is one needed material of it.

Are ya'll for real?

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Lardee said:

See here's the problem. I'm almost 100% certain the @Steorra would disagree with this.

No? I don't think there would be some critical conflict possibilities between us for this topic.

[Lardee]

Just now, Shining Galaxy said:

 

Please return to the discussion of the game, as this rude entanglement will only show how unreasonable you are and have no value for the improvement of the game content.

The discussion of the game is contingent on understanding what we are even talking about. So once again: What is the title of the thread?

[Steorra]

4 minutes ago, Debruh said:

Are ya'll for real?

This might be not suitable for a skill tree patch, but this is a potential balance option if it was needed.

[thesooz9000]

We should get back on track instead of arguing over semantics, I still kinda think that gestalt abigail should be the only one with the player tag, but as long as shadow abigail doesn't get the player tag buff, I can live. Would prefer only gestalt abi having player tag tho.

As spamming cure-all's still makes normal abigail with blessed sisturn III extremely tanky, cutting out the reasons to use gestalt abi.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

That's you making an assumption and I don't even think @Steorra would agree with this either.  

In this case its irrelevant tho. The title is synonymys with "a solution that pleases everyone"

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, Steorra said:

No? I don't think there would be some critical conflict possibilities between us for this topic.

Okay so a casual player, to you, is someone who is only able to beat Deerclops and no other bosses? Is this correct?

[Lardee]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

In this case its irrelevant tho. The title is synonymys with "a solution that pleases everyone"

It's relevant to the underlying assumption that there should be a solution that pleases everyone.

[SilverSpoon]

2 minutes ago, Lardee said:

See here's the problem. I'm almost 100% certain the @Steorra would disagree with this.

Instead of steorra, I disagree with this.

The boundary between Casual and Hardcore players should not be defined by personal judgment. I think steorra simply meant "'everyone', Casual and Hardcore players alike," and it is not important to boundary between Casual or Hardcore player.