Lunar Abigail should have some way to transform back into its normal form. 月比应该有一些方法能转化回普通形态

[Catapult 2.0]

  Currently, there is only a way to actively turn the moon phase into a full moon in the game, and there is no way to actively turn it into a new moon. The way to actively turn the moon phase into a full moon is to use the Lunar Grimoire or open the Moonstorm, the latter of which is only possible later in the game process, and there should be a way to transform the Lunar Abigail at any time in the later game to face different situations.

The idea of transforming lunar Abigail back into a normal form:

1. Use the Moon Dial in the cave;
2.  Touch Fissure in the cave;
3. Give pure horror to Lunar Abigail.

 

    游戏里目前只有主动将月相变成满月的方式，没有主动变成新月的方式。将月相主动变成满月的方式是使用月之魔典获打开月亮风暴，后者在游戏流程较后期才能实现，在游戏后期也应该有随时转化月比的方式以面对不同情况。

将月比转化回普通形态的方式的点子:

1. 在洞穴使用月相盘；
2. 在洞穴触摸裂隙；
3. 将纯粹恐惧给月比。

[Xplan]

exactly

[Lee lol]

reasonable

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

Very good proposal. I hope klei can consider this suggestion.

[YuRinshue]

This is a necessary consideration, no character would have such great limitations and bring such poor returns

[SilverSpoon]

When you defeat a Celestial Champion, ti instantly become a new moon, but is that not good?

[renamoe]

My memory is that there are some in-game mechanics that rely on the moon phase. One example I recall is Woodie's transformation (possibly the old Woodie before the skill tree update) where he turns into a Werebeaver, and also that Gloom can only be picked up during a full moon. I see your point about how it could add flexibility if players could transform Lunar Abigail more easily. However, maybe Klei intentionally designed it this way to maintain a sense of pacing or challenge in the game's progression.

That said, I do agree that it can feel restrictive to be stuck in Gestalt Abigail form until the next new moon. If the current pacing feels too slow, having an additional way to revert Abigail's form could be a helpful QoL improvement for later stages of the game.

[1007954611]

This is a necessary consideration, no character would have such great limitations and bring such poor returns.Time is an important cost in games, and the current mechanism conversion is too complicated.

[Yifei_]

No one can guarantee using only single-target or AOE attacks over such a long period of 10 days, and no one can ensure missing every new moon and full moon. Moreover, there are situations like Moon Storm and Lunar Grimoire that affect the normal lunar phases. The current transformation method is just too impractical.
 

[hyoton123]

No. The point of the forms is not to dynamically swap. 

[ColdHeaven]

I do not agree

[Lee lol]

Considering that the gestalt lacks obvious advantages over Shadow Abi, I think it is reasonable. It is necessary to reduce the cost of using gestat.

[Pig Princess]

15 hours ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

The idea of transforming lunar Abigail back into a normal form:

1. Use the Moon Dial in the cave;
2.  Touch Fissure in the cave;
3. Give pure horror to Lunar Abigail.

How about locking moon dial in particular magic state during corresponding moon phase? So during new moon you could lock moon dial to it's new moon state and use it to turn Abigail into normal form any night at this moon dial? Same for full moon, (and moon dial during full moon looks so great as well, it's probably the only decoration I would like to build for aesthetic purposes).

I like how one has to seek moon phase and how new moon is given new interactions. If moon dial worked in the caves, not only it would go against lore (moon phases have no effect in the caves, caves are territory of another forces, and shadow pieces also can't be summoned here for a reason), it would make interaction shallow, reducing new moon magic to 1 minute trip to the cave. I don't think it's necessary evil provided better solution exist. Fissure suggestion has the same problem: it's about nightmares and fuel corruption, not about moon magic (new moon or full moon). Why would nightmare fuel/pure horror cancell magic of full moon instead of magic of full moon being cancelled by magic of new moon? 

And also there is a nice theme of Abigail being tied to moon clock and switching forms just like moon switches phases. You are picking lunar affinity after all, makes sence you have new interactions with moon, new moon or full moon, not with the shadows. 

[Koomin]

I do not agree

[Lee lol]

2 minutes ago, Koomin said:

I do not agree

Please explain why you disagree.

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, Lee lol said:

Please explain why you disagree.

Sorry I was just a bit annoyed about all of the posts that say to buff Wendy where 10 people comment "I agree" underneath, but I should not have become a part of the problem.

Why I disagree: the interesting part of Gestalt Abigail is that you are making a decision with upsides and downsides that affects your game.  Do you want to be better at fighting bosses, or better at surviving general day to day?  This decision is important because you will have to live with it until the next chance to swap based upon the moon dial.  If it becomes easy to swap then the decision is no longer important and doesn't really matter.  You could just change to Gestalt Abigail before the boss, and change back after.  There is no decision to be made and it is obvious what to do.  Part of the fun of abilities like this in games is making these difficult decisions, and having the decision not really matter would take away a fun part of the character and the design.

[Lee lol]

5 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Sorry I was just a bit annoyed about all of the posts that say to buff Wendy where 10 people comment "I agree" underneath, but I should not have become a part of the problem.

Why I disagree: the interesting part of Gestalt Abigail is that you are making a decision with upsides and downsides that affects your game.  Do you want to be better at fighting bosses, or better at surviving general day to day?  This decision is important because you will have to live with it until the next chance to swap based upon the moon dial.  If it becomes easy to swap then the decision is no longer important and doesn't really matter.  You could just change to Gestalt Abigail before the boss, and change back after.  There is no decision to be made and it is obvious what to do.  Part of the fun of abilities like this in games is making these difficult decisions, and having the decision not really matter would take away a fun part of the character and the design.

If Gestalt is much more survivable than Shadow Abi, I think I'll agree with you. But at the moment, Gestalt does not gain a great survival advantage over Shadow Abi

[Koomin]

2 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

If Gestalt is much more survivable than Shadow Abi, I think I'll agree with you. But at the moment, Gestalt does not gain a great survival advantage over Shadow Abi

Yea I personally think that Shadow needs to get her survivability reduced to make this more of a balanced choice (the inability to gain the player tag, or something else that makes her take more damage).  I understand that some disagree though, and it's a bit off topic for this thread.

[Catapult 2.0]

58 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Yea I personally think that Shadow needs to get her survivability reduced to make this more of a balanced choice (the inability to gain the player tag, or something else that makes her take more damage).  I understand that some disagree though, and it's a bit off topic for this thread.

Why 'neff' shadow Abigail instead of 'buff' lunar Abigail, why can't we suggest improving Wendy without compromising character balance

[Koomin]

1 minute ago, Natsuki Bamboo said:

Why 'neff' shadow Abigail instead of 'buff' lunar Abigail, why can't we suggest improving Wendy without compromising character balance

Because Shadow Abigail is already too strong and compromises character balance.  I'd rather fix that than make Gestalt Abigail also compromise balance and make the problem worse.  This has been discussed a bit though, and happy to leave it as that we have different opinions.

[thesooz9000]

Nerf Shadow abi / normal abi by making them not have the player tag buff

Make only Gestalt abi have the player tag buff

[YuRinshue]

1 hour ago, Koomin said:

Sorry I was just a bit annoyed about all of the posts that say to buff Wendy where 10 people comment "I agree" underneath, but I should not have become a part of the problem.

Why I disagree: the interesting part of Gestalt Abigail is that you are making a decision with upsides and downsides that affects your game.  Do you want to be better at fighting bosses, or better at surviving general day to day?  This decision is important because you will have to live with it until the next chance to swap based upon the moon dial.  If it becomes easy to swap then the decision is no longer important and doesn't really matter.  You could just change to Gestalt Abigail before the boss, and change back after.  There is no decision to be made and it is obvious what to do.  Part of the fun of abilities like this in games is making these difficult decisions, and having the decision not really matter would take away a fun part of the character and the design.

To be honest, I don't think answering 'I agree' is a question. After all, the reason has already been given in the post, which can give the poster confidence and prevent the post from being covered by arguing posts. On the contrary, some people prefer to answer 'this OP, this should weaken' as it is incorrect, and they should provide convincing reasons instead of untested subjectivity. Also, why do you think skill trees should pay unbearable negative benefits for abilities? It seems that other people's skill trees don't have this problem, do they? Even the negative returns of Votox are negligible and do not even occupy insight points.

[Xplan]

18 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Because Shadow Abigail is already too strong and compromises character balance.  I'd rather fix that than make Gestalt Abigail also compromise balance and make the problem worse.  This has been discussed a bit though, and happy to leave it as that we have different opinions.

is balance important or not.

if it is, why u ignored Wolfgang, Wurt, Webber , Maxwell

[thesooz9000]

3 minutes ago, Xplan said:

is balance important or not.

if it is, why u ignored Wolfgang, Wurt, Webber , Maxwell

We're making these posts to prevent something like that happening, also wurt and webber are not on that list lol..

[Xplan]

Just now, thesooz9000 said:

We're making these posts to prevent something like that happening, also wurt and webber are not on that list lol..

I talked to lardee who is a veteran of this game.

i asked is there any problems that Wendy do less dmg than Wolfgang while Wendy is the "glass cannon". he said balance is not that important.

maybe you should argue with him.