Blessed Sisturn III is Way too Strong

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, Lardee said:

I didn't test it against Lunar Bearger because I assumed it would be around the same ratio as regular Bearger.

Ah, too bad. Here's the counterargument:

"But Abigail can't facetank Lunar Bearger! That means Sisturn III is balanced!"

Calling it now haha.

[Arcwell]

Ugh.

I just wanted from Wendy's skill tree to not have to rely on potions. I was very happy when Blessed Sisturn was changed because Abby finally got the survivability not tied to healing that I always wanted her to have. Instead, the argument I keep getting met with now is that Abigail should be even more reliant on potions, that they should be expected to a point where people who don't use them should not even be considered. 

You can think whatever you want about the skill, I just wanted an alternative to spectral cure-all. Seeing everyone claim the skill is broken because of spectral cure-all is infuriating to me.

[WenericMember]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The old overhealth system was way better. I do not understand why they replaced a cool mechanic with an honestly kinda boring (and too strong apparently) mechanic.

Old Blessed sisturn was poorly designed too. The hp meant you had to temporarily give up your main perk, and it was too easy to lose it against random mobs instead of bosses where it wasnt needed.

[Dingle]

4 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Ugh.

I just wanted from Wendy's skill tree to not have to rely on potions. I was very happy when Blessed Sisturn was changed because Abby finally got the survivability not tied to healing that I always wanted her to have. Instead, the argument I keep getting met with now is that Abigail should be even more reliant on potions, that they should be expected to a point where people who don't use them should not even be considered. 

You can think whatever you want about the skill, I just wanted an alternative to spectral cure-all. Seeing everyone claim the skill is broken because of spectral cure-all is infuriating to me.

Haha yeah that sucks.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat. They love Wendy, but HATE the elixir system, and don't want to farm or use them.

Maybe Sisturn III should also prevent elixir use when active? I wonder if people would still go for it, then.

EDIT: Or make her healing potions half as effective.

[OMEGASCRUFF]

17 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

This is unrelated, but your pfp kindles joy.

Aww, that makes me happy. This dog is my spirit animal.

Feeling sane again.

17 minutes ago, Nikki Darks said:

 

Why can't I delete a messed up quote on the mobile forums nvm I'm insane again

[WenericMember]

2 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Ugh.

I just wanted from Wendy's skill tree to not have to rely on potions. I was very happy when Blessed Sisturn was changed because Abby finally got the survivability not tied to healing that I always wanted her to have. Instead, the argument I keep getting met with now is that Abigail should be even more reliant on potions, that they should be expected to a point where people who don't use them should not even be considered. 

You can think whatever you want about the skill, I just wanted an alternative to spectral cure-all. Seeing everyone claim the skill is broken because of spectral cure-all is infuriating to me.

Wendy is balanced around having potions. Any skill that makes strong enough to not need potions, and doesnt take away her ability to use potions will by nature make her broken.

[Jakepeng99]

3 minutes ago, WenericMember said:

Old Blessed sisturn was poorly designed too. The hp meant you had to temporarily give up your main perk, and it was too easy to lose it against random mobs instead of bosses where it wasnt needed.

Better than the new one, and it was alright.

what does “give up your main perk” mean? The Sistern thing is a cool thing you can do before journeys and gives more use and interaction with the Sistern for Wendy.

4 minutes ago, OMEGASCRUFF said:

Aww, that makes me happy. This dog is my spirit animal.

Feeling sane again.

Why can't I delete a messed up quote on the mobile forums nvm I'm insane again

Relatable lol

[Arcwell]

1 minute ago, Jakepeng99 said:

what does “give up your main perk” mean? The Sistern thing is a cool thing you can do before journeys and gives more use and interaction with the Sistern for Wendy.

Required Abigail to wait at the sisturn for 5 full minutes for her health to charge up. As in, you do not have access to Abigail for 5 minutes.

That process would repeat any time you lost part of that health and wanted it back, because it was temporary health that could not be healed through any method other than the sisturn.

[Lardee]

8 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Ugh.

I just wanted from Wendy's skill tree to not have to rely on potions. I was very happy when Blessed Sisturn was changed because Abby finally got the survivability not tied to healing that I always wanted her to have. Instead, the argument I keep getting met with now is that Abigail should be even more reliant on potions, that they should be expected to a point where people who don't use them should not even be considered. 

You can think whatever you want about the skill, I just wanted an alternative to spectral cure-all. Seeing everyone claim the skill is broken because of spectral cure-all is infuriating to me.

The solution to not relying on potions is obtaining the skills to not let Abigail get hit as much. The skill tree gives players a bunch of tools such as intangibility and her dash attack that make this even easier.

That's good game design. Higher skill = faster gameplay that's less reliant on crutches. Lower skill = slower gameplay that's more reliant on crutches.

 

 

[aidankocherhans]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Haha yeah that sucks.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat. They love Wendy, but HATE the elixir system, and don't want to farm or use them.

Maybe Sisturn III should also prevent elixir use when active? I wonder if people would still go for it, then.

EDIT: Or make her healing potions half as effective.

Maybe the defense boost could be neutralized while a healing potion is in effect? A bit specific but it might solve the problem

[Jakepeng99]

Just now, Arcwell said:

Required Abigail to wait at the sisturn for 5 full minutes for her health to charge up. As in, you do not have access to Abigail for 5 minutes.

That process would repeat any time you lost part of that health and wanted it back, because it was temporary health that could not be healed through any method other than the sisturn.

Yeah I liked it even when it was 10 minutes.

i would leave Abigail there will I do chores like chop trees and pick grass.

1 minute ago, aidankocherhans said:

Maybe the defense boost could be neutralized while a healing potion is in effect? A bit specific but it might solve the problem

Too awkward.

[Arcwell]

1 minute ago, Lardee said:

The solution to not relying on potions is obtaining the skills to not let Abigail get hit as much. The skill tree gives players a bunch of tools such as intangibility and her dash attack that make this even easier.

That's good game design. Higher skill = faster gameplay that's less reliant on crutches. Lower skill = slower gameplay that's more reliant on crutches.

Look, in theory that's a great idea. The problem is we do not have that in practice, and if this beta is anything like the Willow one, we never will.

All of Abby's Team Spirit abilities are tied to a 4 second cooldown. So yes you can use it do so something like dodge AG's charge (which is a great application btw), but it won't be nearly as helpful against attacks that happen more frequently, such as any attacks from Bearger, Klaus, Twins, and Fuelweaver.

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

Yeah I liked it even when it was 10 minutes.

Can't relate.

[Siren11]

I think the idea behind the skill is that players who are learning how to kite with Abigail would have an easier time, as she’s able to take twice as many hits before you have to unsummon and heal her. This would allow players more time to get the hang of fights. That’s all I want — a way to smooth out Wendy’s learning curve rather than spending so much time unsummoning and re-summoning Abigail. I hadn’t even considered having Spectral Cure-All active all the time. Is there a way to get around that issue and still give new/intermediate players what they need?

[QuitePositiveGC]

Is this really a problem? You'll still need to kite in order to not take dmg yourself, and assuming you're using Cure-All Abigail will be dealing trash dmg half the time for non-night/cave bosses. So idk, I think this is fine.

[Arthurian Titan]

3 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I think the idea behind the skill is that players who are learning how to kite with Abigail would have an easier time, as she’s able to take twice as many hits before you have to unsummon and heal her. This would allow players more time to get the hang of fights. That’s all I want — a way to smooth out Wendy’s learning curve rather than spending so much time unsummoning and re-summoning Abigail. I hadn’t even considered having Spectral Cure-All active all the time. Is there a way to get around that issue and still give new/intermediate players what they need?

Just give Spectral Cure-All a tag so that it can't be constantly applied, there, issue solved; you would need to constantly alternate between potions to even try to replicate this.

[Juanasdf]

Yeah, it did seem like a very drastic change, and I do feel like the previous iteration of an extra 600 HP was better, but some people complained about the waiting period. Maybe she could have something similar to her new way of acquiring the extra defense added back into the old skill

So maybe placing 4 lune tree blossoms into a sisturn allows you to consume them in some way and grant the 600 HP instantly? That way there is no wait time, while maintaining the fetch quest (which you can just keep planting trees), and also keeps the old extra HP that makes potions not as insanely powerful.

I can see how that could be an issue as Abi could potentially instantly heal 600 HP by placing 4 more lune tree blossoms into a nearby sisturn. So maybe add a cooldown to it?

EDIT: If you wanted to exploit the mechanic Abi could have at most 1800 HP for a fight, (you let her lose 600 hp and then reactivate it mid-fight on a nearby sisturn, but I don't see much issue with that honestly)

[Copyafriend]

While applying a spectral cure all constantly is neither prohibitively expensive nor particularly difficult:

 

It is in no way more effective than just killing the boss yourself. To be honest its probably one of the less efficient methods of killing a boss. It would take a long time and be stunningly unfun.

 

In a very real way its almost identical to taming a beefalo to kill bosses with (i mean as a typical character). Yes it works and yeah its cheap once its all set up, but realistically its probably just better to just fight the boss normally.

Crystal deerclops specifically isnt that hard anyway, just hit it with a fire staff during its vulnerable periods and kill him. Wendy was already capable of doing it if you were careful, and now all thats changed is you dont have to be particularly careful.

[QuitePositiveGC]

28 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

The old overhealth system was way better. I do not understand why they replaced a cool mechanic with an honestly kinda boring (and too strong apparently) mechanic.

"Cool mechanic" Are we thinking of the same skill? The old system took 10 minutes of playing as Wes to give Abigail double hp, which does nothing.

This new system at the very least has you utilizing a neat interaction with Lune Tree Blossoms, which is interesting.

[Siren11]

2 minutes ago, Arthurian Titan said:

Just give Spectral Cure-All a tag so that it can't be constantly applied, there, issue solved; you would need to constantly alternate between potions to even try to replicate this.

That’s an interesting idea, but I feel like it might be an issue for fights where (some) people need to spam Spectral Cure-Alls. It might not be as much of an issue with Blessed Sisturn III anyways, and I’m sure some players would be able to do it fine, but I’d be kinda bummed if the skill that could help me beat Fuelweaver prevents me from winning the fight.

[WenericMember]

3 minutes ago, Copyafriend said:

While applying a spectral cure all constantly is neither prohibitively expensive nor particularly difficult:

 

It is in no way more effective than just killing the boss yourself. To be honest its probably one of the less efficient methods of killing a boss. It would take a long time and be stunningly unfun.

 

In a very real way its almost identical to taming a beefalo to kill bosses with (i mean as a typical character). Yes it works and yeah its cheap once its all set up, but realistically its probably just better to just fight the boss normally.

Crystal deerclops specifically isnt that hard anyway, just hit it with a fire staff during its vulnerable periods and kill him. Wendy was already capable of doing it if you were careful, and now all thats changed is you dont have to be particularly careful.

But it stops making Wendy play like Wendy, and makes Wendy play like wolfgang- like any other survivor but with a damage mult 

 

[QuitePositiveGC]

1 minute ago, WenericMember said:

But it stops making Wendy play like Wendy, and makes Wendy play likebwolfgang

 

How?

[WenericMember]

Just now, QuitePositiveGC said:

How?

You stop having to care about Abbys survival, and just fight like anyo e else.

[Lardee]

8 minutes ago, Siren11 said:

I think the idea behind the skill is that players who are learning how to kite with Abigail would have an easier time, as she’s able to take twice as many hits before you have to unsummon and heal her. This would allow players more time to get the hang of fights. That’s all I want — a way to smooth out Wendy’s learning curve rather than spending so much time unsummoning and re-summoning Abigail. I hadn’t even considered having Spectral Cure-All active all the time. Is there a way to get around that issue and still give new/intermediate players what they need?

The DST learning curve when it comes to bosses, especially the tougher ones, have never been learning how to fight them on the go, and in the case of Wendy, Spectral Cure All would be the newer/intermediate player solution.

 

14 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Look, in theory that's a great idea. The problem is we do not have that in practice, and if this beta is anything like the Willow one, we never will.

All of Abby's Team Spirit abilities are tied to a 4 second cooldown. So yes you can use it do so something like dodge AG's charge (which is a great application btw), but it won't be nearly as helpful against attacks that happen more frequently, such as any attacks from Bearger, Klaus, Twins, and Fuelweaver.

 

Team Spirit isn't required to for any of those bosses except Bearger, and it's okay for characters to have bad matchups just like it's okay for them to have good ones.

[QuitePositiveGC]

Just now, WenericMember said:

You stop having to care about Abbys survival, and just fight like anyo e else.

Fair, but you do know you're not forced to pick this skill. Also if you don't want to fight like Wolfgang, you can just use Vigor Mortis and kite early, and or use the new Abigail commands to kite for her.

So idk, Imo this isn't an issue.

[Nikki Darks]

42 minutes ago, Arcwell said:

Ugh.

I just wanted from Wendy's skill tree to not have to rely on potions. I was very happy when Blessed Sisturn was changed because Abby finally got the survivability not tied to healing that I always wanted her to have. Instead, the argument I keep getting met with now is that Abigail should be even more reliant on potions, that they should be expected to a point where people who don't use them should not even be considered. 

You can think whatever you want about the skill, I just wanted an alternative to spectral cure-all. Seeing everyone claim the skill is broken because of spectral cure-all is infuriating to me.

They could rework the forgetmelots elixir so that it reduces damage taken by a flat 10-20 like what Walter has with bees?