Projectile pro I and II ideas

[marshyds]

Having two skills that increase crafting yield seems a bit boring, even if its mostly QoL.

So heres an idea for a secondary perk to the skill.

Projectile pro II - In addition to more ammo crafte, shots fired are 2x as fast. This makes missing a shot very rare.

EDIT: New skills

Projectile pro I - Increases ammo crafted and shot speed by 2x

Projectile pro II - In addition to more ammo crafted, Walter shoots his first shot much faster. Also he gets a marble bag i guess.

[Jakepeng99]

It puts too much value in the skill.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

It puts too much value in the skill.

Does it? I think they just the projectile flight speed not the fire rate?

[Jakepeng99]

1 minute ago, Mysterious box said:

Does it? I think they just the projectile flight speed not the fire rate?

I know, it still does.

[Mysterious box]

Just now, Jakepeng99 said:

I know, it still does.

How?

[Jakepeng99]

23 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

How?

Its unessisary since extra ammo is already really strong.

[Mysterious box]

6 minutes ago, Jakepeng99 said:

Its unessisary since extra ammo is already really strong.

2 skill points to get 10 ammo is not strong even if we use the original 10 default ammo 2 skill points for 20 ammo wouldn't be strong it's simply a overly expensive quality of life skill.

[MisterBilly]

35 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

2 skill points to get 10 ammo is not strong even if we use the original 10 default ammo 2 skill points for 20 ammo wouldn't be strong it's simply a overly expensive quality of life skill.

I love you but I heavily disagree lol,

If someone was going to use gunpowder rounds to kill Bee Queen, who has 22,500 health, if they are only using basic attacks (not the scrappy frame charged attack which increases ammo value via damage), they would need on average 317 rounds to kill Bee Queen. This means Walter would need 16 Gunpowder to make the ammo he needs to kill Bee Queen, or 11 if he uses projectile pro. That's a whopping 31.25% increase of value of resources spent when crafting with projectile pro. Of course, it doesn't seem that much if you use only low value ammo sources like moon glass rounds, but I have no idea how someone could come to the conclusion that it's not strong when it comes to higher value ammo like dreadstone rounds and pure horror.

[_mylilsunshine_]

40 minutes ago, MisterBilly said:

I love you but I heavily disagree lol,

If someone was going to use gunpowder rounds to kill Bee Queen, who has 22,500 health, if they are only using basic attacks (not the scrappy frame charged attack which increases ammo value via damage), they would need on average 317 rounds to kill Bee Queen. This means Walter would need 16 Gunpowder to make the ammo he needs to kill Bee Queen, or 11 if he uses projectile pro. That's a whopping 31.25% increase of value of resources spent when crafting with projectile pro. Of course, it doesn't seem that much if you use only low value ammo sources like moon glass rounds, but I have no idea how someone could come to the conclusion that it's not strong when it comes to higher value ammo like dreadstone rounds and pure horror.

I get that Proj Pro 2 is strong, but you're already spending a point just to get to it. Right now Walter doesn't have that many useful perks to spend that point on, but when the skill tree is (hopefully) revised, spending 2 points for 31.25% crafting efficiency doesn't feel justified. With OP's projectile speed suggestion, it will only be beneficial against fast-moving enemies, so I don't think it's so much more valuable that it makes Proj Pro 2 a must-have (you would already want to get this anyway--?).

[Mysterious box]

40 minutes ago, MisterBilly said:

I love you but I heavily disagree lol,

If someone was going to use gunpowder rounds to kill Bee Queen, who has 22,500 health, if they are only using basic attacks (not the scrappy frame charged attack which increases ammo value via damage), they would need on average 317 rounds to kill Bee Queen. This means Walter would need 16 Gunpowder to make the ammo he needs to kill Bee Queen, or 11 if he uses projectile pro. That's a whopping 31.25% increase of value of resources spent when crafting with projectile pro. Of course, it doesn't seem that much if you use only low value ammo sources like moon glass rounds, but I have no idea how someone could come to the conclusion that it's not strong when it comes to higher value ammo like dreadstone rounds and pure horror.

Like it sounds pretty good when you look at it like that but even look at it compared to just a brightshade sword repair kit 1 use of a kit is 200 uses compare that to Walter's ammo needing 7 materials to reach the same range after 2 skill points 1 is definitely fair but 2 seems like robbery if that's all we're getting.

[_mylilsunshine_]

14 minutes ago, Mysterious box said:

Like it sounds pretty good when you look at it like that but even look at it compared to just a brightshade sword repair kit 1 use of a kit is 200 uses compare that to Walter's ammo needing 7 materials to reach the same range after 2 skill points 1 is definitely fair but 2 seems like robbery if that's all we're getting.

Have to disagree with you on this since Proj Pro is effective in all stages of the game, from the moment you spawn in. Sure, it's more valuable with higher-tier ammo if we want to compare end game vs. end game, but crafting 30 marbles or cursed rounds/material is really, really good, carrying you to the end game. Also a better comparison would be between range vs. range, so Gloomerang vs. Slingshot. A repair kit gives you 85 uses, so it doesn't seem as much of a robbery anymore.

[Mysterious box]

3 minutes ago, _mylilsunshine_ said:

Have to disagree with you on this since Proj Pro is effective in all stages of the game, from the moment you spawn in. Sure, it's a lot better with higher-tier ammo, but crafting 30 marbles or cursed rounds/material is really, really good, carrying you to the end-game. 

I can't fully agree for early game ammo yes it's high but for late game ammo I feel like your crafting at a loss I feel like the only reason it's okay is because cursed rounds are good into the late game but that I feel speaks more to the late game rounds(at least on the Lunar side) being weaker than they should be.

[_mylilsunshine_]

Yeah Proj Pro 2 feels bad because the end game ammo are bad, it feels good because the early/mid game ammo are good. If Klei can't balance the ammo so that Proj Pro is also balanced, then giving Proj Pro 2 a projectile speed bonus doesn't seem outrageous to me.

[Chewabacca]

I would prefer if it just got condensed into one skill so Walter has more points to spend when Woby eventually gets an expansion, though I see the value in the idea of a skill that could prevent misses.

[cyjs]

Why not give Walter an ammo box?He will satisfy everyone without affecting the balance

[marshyds]

16 minutes ago, cyjs said:

Why not give Walter an ammo box?He will satisfy everyone without affecting the balance

in such a case projectile pro I could double bullet speed and projectile II could focus on the ammo bag