Perhaps we can design a skill that allows Wendy to fight alongside Abigail.

[gugakuta]

Wendy (Not including the Beefalo) generates a petal circle around Abigail after every 5 attacks, with a maximum of 5 petals.

Each petal provides Abigail with one instance of damage immunity, while also increasing 10 Planar Damage.

After exiting combat, the petals can last for up to 20 seconds.

 

This design requires Wendy to participate in combat while also enhancing Abigail's survivability. If we get 5 layers of buffs, the DPS will be close to the beefalo.

I think Wendy should have the ability to abandon the beefalo and fight alongside Abigail in the current version.

At the same time, I believe the skill tree should find a better way to address Abigail's survivability in combat.

 

中文版本：

温蒂（本体）每攻击5次，阿比盖尔周围会生成一片花瓣围绕，至多5片，脱离战斗之后至多存在20秒

每片花瓣可以为阿比盖尔提供一次免伤，同时为阿比盖尔增加10点位面伤害

这个设计要求温蒂自己参与战斗，可以保阿比证生存，同时若阿比盖尔叠至满层，影刀温蒂+阿比的dps接近战牛站鞍+阿比

在boss开始都带击飞属性的时代，温蒂应该有舍弃战牛，自己与阿比盖尔一起战斗的能力

[Arcwell]

I like the idea but the numbers seem overtuned. I could see it working if it was more hits to activate or damage reduction / healing instead of damage immunity.

As it stands, 1 instance of damage immunity per 5 attacks would mean Abby takes no damage when only being attacked by an enemy with an attack period of 2.33 or more. Most bosses have an attack period of 3 - 4.

[gugakuta]

Just now, Arcwell said:

我喜欢这个想法，但数字似乎有些过头了。如果激活的命中次数更多或减少伤害/治疗而不是免疫伤害，我可以看到它会起作用。

就目前而言，每 5 次攻击免疫 1 次伤害免疫意味着艾比在仅被攻击时间为 2.33 或更高的敌人攻击时不会受到伤害。大多数 Boss 的攻击期为 3 - 4。

However, considering that Abigail's health is not sufficient to withstand the boss's attacks, I think it's reasonable for players to use their own skills to ensure that Abigail does not take damage.
 

In contrast, Willow's Bernie has 2600 health and possesses a Planar Entity, allowing it to withstand nearly 10 times the damage that Abigail can take when facing the boss's attacks, and it doesn't require any player intervention.

While I don't believe Abigail should have exceptionally high stats like Bernie, I think it's reasonable for players to ensure Abigail's survival through their active participation in combat.

[Arcwell]

13 minutes ago, gugakuta said:

However, considering that Abigail's health is not sufficient to withstand the boss's attacks, I think it's reasonable for players to use their own skills to ensure that Abigail does not take damage.
 

In contrast, Willow's Bernie has 2600 health and possesses a Planar Entity, allowing it to withstand nearly 10 times the damage that Abigail can take when facing the boss's attacks, and it doesn't require any player intervention.

While I don't believe Abigail should have exceptionally high stats like Bernie, I think it's reasonable for players to ensure Abigail's survival through their active participation in combat.

My point is that I think damage immunity is excessive. I want Abigail to have good survivability, I just don't want it to be immortality. 

In my opinion it would be better if it gave her enough survivability to fight bosses comfortably while still having some risk of damage (similar to Woodie's Weremoose form). As stated previously you could do this with damage reduction or healing, or you could maybe borrow the mechanic from Maxwell's duelists that limit the amount of damage she can take in a single hit. 

[Catuna_]

1 hour ago, gugakuta said:

In contrast, Willow's Bernie has 2600 health and possesses a Planar Entity, allowing it to withstand nearly 10 times the damage that Abigail can take when facing the boss's attacks, and it doesn't require any player intervention.

they are not comparable followers... Bernie does not do AoE damage, nor does he boost your and other players' damage, Abigail is not meant to be a tanky follower otherwise they would've given her any of the recent measures given to follower characters for survivability (like maxwell's duelists or planar entity protection)

your idea itself is cool when applied to the lunar affinity in my opinion, it would be a direct contrast to shadow's empowered vex effect and would discourage/prevent wendy from looking at abigail soloing bosses (in this hypothetical scenario her silly damage nerfs are reverted)

[YuRinshue]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

they are not comparable followers... Bernie does not do AoE damage, nor does he boost your and other players' damage, Abigail is not meant to be a tanky follower otherwise they would've given her any of the recent measures given to follower characters for survivability (like maxwell's duelists or planar entity protection)

your idea itself is cool when applied to the lunar affinity in my opinion, it would be a direct contrast to shadow's empowered vex effect and would discourage/prevent wendy from looking at abigail soloing bosses (in this hypothetical scenario her silly damage nerfs are reverted)

I think it is inappropriate to deny that Bernie and Abigail cannot be discussed together by saying 'Bernie has no AOE and injuries'. Because Wendy herself is just a Wes, but Willow is even stronger than Wendy + Abigail, and on this basis, Willow also has a Bernie.

2 hours ago, Arcwell said:

My point is that I think damage immunity is excessive. I want Abigail to have good survivability, I just don't want it to be immortality. 

In my opinion it would be better if it gave her enough survivability to fight bosses comfortably while still having some risk of damage (similar to Woodie's Weremoose form). As stated previously you could do this with damage reduction or healing, or you could maybe borrow the mechanic from Maxwell's duelists that limit the amount of damage she can take in a single hit. 

I think Abigail needs this level of defense ability because Wendy herself doesn't have any abilities other than Abigail, and on this basis, Wendy only has an attack coefficient of 0.75. If Abigail should not have this defensive ability, then Wendy should be given other corrections.

[2390508611]

The new saddle may represent the designer's hope that players who have raised cows can still solve combat problems through riding in the later stages, or at least low pressure combat problems. I think this is contradictory to the fact that almost every enemy has the ability to knock down. In some cases, knock down can even be considered equivalent to immediate fail, which makes the newly added 60% defense generous while appearing useless. If designers still want players to use cows for combat in the later stages, they should be aware that cows need some measures to prevent retaliation

Of course, the idea of allowing Wendy to get rid of cow fighting is not wrong. I just want to express that no matter which tactic Wendy chooses in the end, cow riding combat should have its own significance.Especially with the release of such excellent equipment

[1007954611]

1 hour ago, Catuna_ said:

他们不是可比的追随者...伯尼不会造成 AoE 伤害，也不会提高你和其他玩家的伤害，阿比盖尔并不是一个坦克追随者，否则他们会给她任何最近给追随者角色的生存措施（比如麦克斯韦的决斗者或平面实体保护）

在我看来，当你的想法应用于月亮亲和力时，它本身就很酷，这将与 Shadow 的 Empowered Vex 效果形成直接对比，并且会阻止/阻止 Wendy 看 Abigail 单独 Boss（在这个假设的情况下，她的愚蠢伤害削弱被撤销了）

But Bernie is not Willow's main ability. Willow mainly relies on the ability to control flames, and Bernie is only a small part. With the skill tree, even without Bernie, Willow, who relies solely on lighters, is still a powerful character.
But abigail occupies all of Wendy's abilities.
But abigail occupies all of Wendy's abilities.

[Catuna_]

13 minutes ago, YuRinshue said:

I think it is inappropriate to deny that Bernie and Abigail cannot be discussed together by saying 'Bernie has no AOE and injuries'. Because Wendy herself is just a Wes, but Willow is even stronger than Wendy + Abigail, and on this basis, Willow also has a Bernie.

11 minutes ago, 1007954611 said:

But Bernie is not Willow's main ability. Willow mainly relies on the ability to control flames, and Bernie is only a small part. With the skill tree, even without Bernie, Willow, who relies solely on lighters, is still a powerful character.
But abigail occupies all of Wendy's abilities.

A big part of the reason why comparing Wendy is so pointless (yet such a common argument that i keep seeing) is that Wendy and Willow are fundamentally different characters.

First off, "Wendy is just Wes without Abigail" is such an empty argument, yes, that's by design. Please stop using as an argument, it is not a very useful addition. The power of a Wendy is Abigail. Willow is not designed around Bernie use, Bernie is a decently big part of her kit, sure, but it's not the entire core.

This is why Abigail is a follower that can be summoned at any time regardless of conditions and that's why Wendy has dedicated controls to control Abigail's movement (Rile up/Soothe, Attack at, Escape, De-summon, Attack with fire/ice staff to de-summon her quickly etc.). In contrast, Willow is a character that focuses around fire magic, Bernie only boosts her damage output with his DPS (25/27.5 vs Abigail's 40), does not do AoE damage and cannot be controlled very well outside of calming him down and having him catch up to you by going far away from him. Bernie is a meat shield, designed to take hits and distract and not do too much damage. In contrast, Abigail is capable of dealing massive damage (40 (default) /80 DPS (shadow affinity)) in an AoE, boosts everyone's damage by 10% and an extra 40% for Wendy. This is why Abigail is not good at taking repeated big bursts of damage, including but not limited to boss attacks.

One can argue that Willow can boost her damage by burning enemies and achieve a similar effect, however:

1. Wendy's affinities far out-damage Willow with all of her perks.
2. There are several enemies in this game that cannot be set on fire.

You cannot argue that Wendy is weaker in combat of any kind when she's outputting Wolfgang numbers (again, with AoE). Gestalt Abigail also used to far out-damage Wendy, but Klei nerfed her to bits unfortunately. Hoping this can be fixed soon.
(Dark sword) Wolfgang deals 136 damage, for a dps of 340
(Dark sword) Wendy deals 106.1 damage with a dark sword, for a dps of 265.25 + Abigail's DPS so up to 345.25 DPS (Equal to Wolfgang)
(Beefalo) Wendy deals 137.28 damage, for a dps of 343.2 + Abigail's DPS so up to 423.2 DPS (25% higher than Wolfgang)

She can be utilized for any boss, the entire concept of the character is to figure out how and try to make good use of Abigail by keeping her alive. That's the fun of the character for me, I've utilized Wendy for the entire game several times before, boss or not, with and without the skill tree.

What I'm trying to say is that Wendy is a very distinct character from everyone else, this pointless finger pointing going "Ooooh, but this character has that. This character has this!" has become quite irritating to me. Wendy shouldn't stray from the concept of revolving around her dead sister, she is unwilling to let go and all she has left. Klei has added tools for Wendy that are external to Abigail but they're going to be minor in comparison.

[1007954611]

5 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

我想说的是，Wendy 是一个与其他人截然不同的角色，这种毫无意义的指责说“哎呀，但这个角色有那个。这个角色有这个！“这让我很恼火。温蒂不应该偏离围绕她死去的姐姐转的概念，她不愿意放手和她所剩无几的一切。Klei 为 Wendy 添加了 Abigail 之外的工具，但相比之下，这些工具将是次要的。

In fact, Klei's addition of tools other than Abigail for Wendy is a good direction. The problem is that these new tools currently shown on the test server are too useless, either the cost is much higher than the benefit, or they can be replaced with more common and convenient tools in the game. I would be happy if Klei could make these new toys really useful, but their current performance is too bad

[Catuna_]

2 minutes ago, 1007954611 said:

In fact, Klei's addition of tools other than Abigail for Wendy is a good direction. The problem is that these new tools currently shown on the test server are too useless, either the cost is much higher than the benefit, or they can be replaced with more common and convenient tools in the game. I would be happy if Klei could make these new toys really useful, but their current performance is too bad

I disagree to an extent in the sense that I think useless is a very strong word, I think they're just rough around the edges and need some extra tuning. But nothing's useless about Wendy's new night vision, for example, though they should buff things like the speed potion and the shield potions to be more useful.

I agree though that Wendy's Perennial Altar really needs to do more than just be a reskin of a meat effigy, though...

[1007954611]

12 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

 But nothing's useless about Wendy's new night vision, for example, though they should buff things like the speed potion and the shield potions to be more useful.

I agree with that，But personally, I still doubt if their value can be strengthened enough to occupy an important head equipment compartment

12 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

I agree though that Wendy's Perennial Altar really needs to do more than just be a reskin of a meat effigy, though...

This is also one of my least satisfied points

I once proposed on the forum to use night time to generate ghost fire and cool down to make Wendy's decorated tombstones more useful (aside from the actual effect, I think this is very atmospheric, and cooling down is a unique character technique, at least currently other characters have not involved related skills), but Klei did not adopt these suggestions.

[YuRinshue]

40 minutes ago, Catuna_ said:

A big part of the reason why comparing Wendy is so pointless (yet such a common argument that i keep seeing) is that Wendy and Willow are fundamentally different characters.

First off, "Wendy is just Wes without Abigail" is such an empty argument, yes, that's by design. Please stop using as an argument, it is not a very useful addition. The power of a Wendy is Abigail. Willow is not designed around Bernie use, Bernie is a decently big part of her kit, sure, but it's not the entire core.

This is why Abigail is a follower that can be summoned at any time regardless of conditions and that's why Wendy has dedicated controls to control Abigail's movement (Rile up/Soothe, Attack at, Escape, De-summon, Attack with fire/ice staff to de-summon her quickly etc.). In contrast, Willow is a character that focuses around fire magic, Bernie only boosts her damage output with his DPS (25/27.5 vs Abigail's 40), does not do AoE damage and cannot be controlled very well outside of calming him down and having him catch up to you by going far away from him. Bernie is a meat shield, designed to take hits and distract and not do too much damage. In contrast, Abigail is capable of dealing massive damage (40 (default) /80 DPS (shadow affinity)) in an AoE, boosts everyone's damage by 10% and an extra 40% for Wendy. This is why Abigail is not good at taking repeated big bursts of damage, including but not limited to boss attacks.

One can argue that Willow can boost her damage by burning enemies and achieve a similar effect, however:

1. Wendy's affinities far out-damage Willow with all of her perks.
2. There are several enemies in this game that cannot be set on fire.

You cannot argue that Wendy is weaker in combat of any kind when she's outputting Wolfgang numbers (again, with AoE). Gestalt Abigail also used to far out-damage Wendy, but Klei nerfed her to bits unfortunately. Hoping this can be fixed soon.
(Dark sword) Wolfgang deals 136 damage, for a dps of 340
(Dark sword) Wendy deals 106.1 damage with a dark sword, for a dps of 265.25 + Abigail's DPS so up to 345.25 DPS (Equal to Wolfgang)
(Beefalo) Wendy deals 137.28 damage, for a dps of 343.2 + Abigail's DPS so up to 423.2 DPS (25% higher than Wolfgang)

She can be utilized for any boss, the entire concept of the character is to figure out how and try to make good use of Abigail by keeping her alive. That's the fun of the character for me, I've utilized Wendy for the entire game several times before, boss or not, with and without the skill tree.

What I'm trying to say is that Wendy is a very distinct character from everyone else, this pointless finger pointing going "Ooooh, but this character has that. This character has this!" has become quite irritating to me. Wendy shouldn't stray from the concept of revolving around her dead sister, she is unwilling to let go and all she has left. Klei has added tools for Wendy that are external to Abigail but they're going to be minor in comparison.

Firstly, all of Wendy's abilities are tied to Abigail, and the punishment for losing Abigail is too severe. At the same time, Abigail's controllability is far inferior to that of Wolfgang, who does not require any additional operations, and Willow, who is extremely convenient with every fire magic (I hope you don't insist on taking a walk around the Killing Hive to get almost unlimited abilities, which is precious). The data you have listed certainly proves Wendy's optimistic upper limit, but the reality is that in the face of repelling damage, it is easy for you to reload yesterday's save for a cow that has been trained for 20/15 days (the cow's almost uncontrollable fighting desire). The boss only needs to have a small AOE to break Abigail's 600 HP upper limit and receive double damage with just one touch. At the same time, the bonus you mentioned also relies on a prerequisite of "killing animals in the backpack to increase the duration, up to a maximum of 40 seconds". Under these circumstances, DPS lacks persuasiveness and is closer to being hollow. Because if you use the time spent preparing these pre materials to collect the most common gunpowder, I can actually complete the battle more easily. In your words, Wilson has a stronger DPS than Wolfgang, can this be recognized? I'm sure it shouldn't be.Not to mention the newly emerged commands, how many of them are truly useful, and can using these commands still guarantee the DPS in your description?The main problem is that Wendy's abilities are too monotonous and can only be related to Abigail and battles. The new flower wreath and tomb have too little content to offer. In comparison, who would have thought that Vila used to only have bigger dolls and lighters?

[arubaro]

Perhabs we can respect downsides and interesting gameplay mechanics 

[1007954611]

Your design is quite similar to my idea a few weeks ago

 

[Mike23Ua]

Yeah see the thing is, people want Abigail to do all the fighting for Wendy. Rather than the two actually working together.

Ive made several suggestions as to how they can work better together:

The FIRST of those Suggestions is to Change Gestalt Abby so that she sits on the side lines “charging up” for a devastating attack if Wendy can deal a few hits of her own damage without taking damage in return (exactly like Wormwoods Armor) She will then dash through multiple targets like a Brightshade staff (or the same target multiple times)

But it requires Wendy to Actually participate in combat, instead of wearing a Armor or whatever to turn Abby into a Facetank.

The second suggestion was to allow Wendy to target herself and command Abigail to “Haunt” her body, possessing it and giving Wendy more strength, this would be useful for boss fights where you don’t want to use Abigail during the fight at all (like Klaus) but you don’t want to be as weak as Wes because you have to fight without your petal damage buff.

Both suggestions make Wendy and Abby work in unison.

[ColdHeaven]

there are plenty of mods out there that make wendy absurdly strong, klei don't have to add this kind of thing to the base game

[layangan putus]

I think Abi AI design is too old to be relevant for DST so just remove Abi AoE capability until unlocked later by lunar/shadow power and they should implement control for both Wendy & Abi like @Fitzee suggested. While downside with actual drawback is a must in DST - Wendy's 0.75 is just awful one since fighting boss in DST is important. It's only bad design to punish players because of this limiting AI design. Punish me all you want but make sure it's due to my mistake or my lack of preparation not because of unreliable AI with meh accessible command. Players are losing dps here since trading AoE upside for 0.75 downside when fighting boss is a loss for me! If you like Abi AoE as her now (offer is EZ BQ and whatnot) then accept her 0.75 caliber faithfully (payment is bad against CC & whatnot).

[RiceMilk]

boss带击飞，难道不应该想办法免疫击飞吗，解决方案怎么能是舍弃牛呢？牛又做错了什么啊

[Lee lol]

2 minutes ago, RiceMilk said:

boss带击飞，难道不应该想办法免疫击飞吗，解决方案怎么能是舍弃牛呢？牛又做错了什么啊

这个也不只是温蒂的问题，位面版本出来后应该有不少人反馈，还没改就说明他们不想改

[gugakuta]

12 hours ago, RiceMilk said:

boss带击飞，难道不应该想办法免疫击飞吗，解决方案怎么能是舍弃牛呢？牛又做错了什么啊

如果能有方法免疫击飞那当然很好，但是目前看来，不太可能出，所以不如让人物本体战斗能力提升

[Xplan]

2 minutes ago, gugakuta said:

如果能有方法免疫击飞那当然很好，但是目前看来，不太可能出，所以不如让人物本体战斗能力提升

As for the knockback, you can take our ideas into consideration.