Comparing Wortox and Wendy's skill trees, Thoughts on the issue of balance

[cyjs]

Wortox can generate 276 souls (9✖️6✖️5➕6) as long as he has the Pan Flute and the Decomposition Staff. With these souls, he can go anywhere and obtain any resources easily, without fear of hunger or blood loss. And this only requires 2 skill points to achieve.

And if Wendy wants to bring a damage buff to Shadow Abigail that lasts for 5 minutes (many BOSS require longer battle times), she needs 180 Mourning Glory. If you want to collect these more easily, you need to fill in the Pipspook branch, and if you don't want to search for Pipspook all over the world, you also need to fill up the tombstone branch, transplant the tombstone, and then fill up the two skill points of Resurrection Butterfly and Shadow Branch . A total of 9 skill points were spent. The point is, even this takes a long time to prepare. During this preparation time, any BOSS has been eliminated.

Is this huge gap in actual experience the balance developers want? I think DST has long been out of balance. The key is to make players who are exposed to this character invest more time, so that players who are new to her are more willing to pay for her.

[ColdHeaven]

yes

[Xplan]

实际上，情况可能更糟，因为温蒂只能一个接一个地复活蝴蝶。你几乎没有足够的时间在战斗中制作。

[cyjs]

Moreover, there are not enough tombstones in the world to support such a large consumption of mourning glory. Players can only collect slowly or commit suicide in large numbers to obtain skeletons and make tombstones. I think this is a disguised form of encouraging players to commit suicide, which is not what players want. but there is no other way

[asdsaax]

3 hours ago, cyjs said:

Wortox can generate 276 souls (9✖️6✖️5➕6) as long as he has the Pan Flute and the Decomposition Staff.

This is literally the most unhinged thing I have ever read as Wortox player

 

I understand that you guys want the best for Wendy and it's sweet, but drop the copium and elaborate on what Wendy is "missing out on" because this topics leads to nowhere I'm afraid

 

Edit:

I realized that my sentence sounds way too patronizing, so I apologize for potential rudeness

But I do think this post doesn't bring much value for Wendy because... the scenario of grind you described feels really unrealistic and people never needed so much mourning glory to get stuff done and such overkill in preparation is on user rather than on design I think

If anything I feel like Wendy has much more freedom with potions than ever

[cyjs]

29 minutes ago, asdsaax said:

This is literally the most unhinged thing I have ever read as Wortox player

 

I understand that you guys want the best for Wendy and it's sweet, but drop the copium and elaborate on what Wendy is "missing out on" because this topics leads to nowhere I'm afraid

Is there something wrong with what I said? I am also a wortox player. Within 5 days I could get the Pan Flute and the Staff of Decomposition, and then I would have complete soul freedom.And this is already very slow，Someone has already beaten fuelweaver and celestial champion in 15 days

I don't want Wortox to be nerfed, but keep an eye on balance issues. Just like my title, don’t go off topic

[Lee Sy]

So my only suggestion is help Jason, please.

Where are you, the designer of Wortox's skill tree? Save Wendy, save Jason, how could you leave him alone?

救救温蒂，求求了

[asdsaax]

12 minutes ago, cyjs said:

Is there something wrong with what I said? I am also a wortox player. Within 5 days I could get the Pan Flute and the Staff of Decomposition, and then I would have complete soul freedom.And this is already very slow，Someone has already beaten fuelweaver and celestial champion in 15 days

I don't want Wortox to be nerfed, but keep an eye on balance issues. Just like my title, don’t go off topic

Yes, because Wortox doesn't need to burn through precious materials to achieve this so it's very funny on it's own

and day 3 ruins rush as anecdotal evidence is very unrealistic because DST is RNG dependent which makes your argument unreliable. Do I have to explain how the game won't spoil you everytime and sometimes you have to slowdown?

and Wendy players somehow didn't need so much mourning glory pre-skilltree to be efficient or get to play?

Besides Wortox and Wendy had/have their own issues and I fail to see how balance or comparison has anything to do here

Therefore your examples are extreme, unrealistic and have nothing to do with each other and I implore you to straight up elaborate what Wendy needs

[Mike23Ua]

Wortox has like one gimmick, Wendy now has multiple gimmicks.

I think it’s balanced that since Wortox is limited by what he can do, (in terms of ALL Areas of the game not just Combat..) That he doesn’t require as much effort or upkeep.

Wendy on the other hand now has several different things she can do both inside of, and outside of combat, so she probably should require a ton more effort and upkeep than Wortox to achieve the same results.

Thats my logic anyway take it or leave it.

[ColdHeaven]

1 hour ago, asdsaax said:

This is literally the most unhinged thing I have ever read as Wortox player

 

I understand that you guys want the best for Wendy and it's sweet, but drop the copium and elaborate on what Wendy is "missing out on" because this topics leads to nowhere I'm afraid

them saying that and then acting like wendy is wes. i can't even fathom it

[Pominsing]

5 minutes ago, ColdHeaven said:

ok calm down little emperor.

Huh? You wouldn't have misunderstood, right? I wasn't referring to the people here.

[ColdHeaven]

2 minutes ago, Pominsing said:

Huh? You wouldn't have misunderstood, right? I wasn't referring to the people here.

it does not need to be aggressive either way

[Hollow soul 3]

Wortox main, that sounds like a great way to waste a panflute. The better start is to set up a beer/spider arena. Or just kill the mobs. His soul pierce let's you farm pretty quickly. The souls are a lot more strict in what they can do when compared to the morning glory. We're expected to farm enough to always have 100 stored in our inventory dedicated to our early game weapon as well. That all being said, I still don't think the neutral side branches are good/worth a second look.

[BalkanCockroach]

 

[arubaro]

This is an absurd comparison 

[erick was right]

2 hours ago, cyjs said:

Moreover, there are not enough tombstones in the world to support such a large consumption of mourning glory. Players can only collect slowly or commit suicide in large numbers to obtain skeletons and make tombstones. I think this is a disguised form of encouraging players to commit suicide, which is not what players want. but there is no other way

hidden message to wendy mains from devs, based klei

--

yeah, wartox is better, that's why im maining him now (wanted to main wendy but oops her tree is much worse) - nothing to do, they won't change it, embrace the true chad war tox

[Dingle]

180 mourning glory? Are you seriously talking about using it to resurrect butterflies?

3 hours ago, cyjs said:

Wortox can generate 276 souls (9✖️6✖️5➕6) as long as he has the Pan Flute and the Decomposition Staff. With these souls, he can go anywhere and obtain any resources easily, without fear of hunger or blood loss. And this only requires 2 skill points to achieve.

And if Wendy wants to bring a damage buff to Shadow Abigail that lasts for 5 minutes (many BOSS require longer battle times), she needs 180 Mourning Glory. If you want to collect these more easily, you need to fill in the Pipspook branch, and if you don't want to search for Pipspook all over the world, you also need to fill up the tombstone branch, transplant the tombstone, and then fill up the two skill points of Resurrection Butterfly and Shadow Branch . A total of 9 skill points were spent. The point is, even this takes a long time to prepare. During this preparation time, any BOSS has been eliminated.

Is this huge gap in actual experience the balance developers want? I think DST has long been out of balance. The key is to make players who are exposed to this character invest more time, so that players who are new to her are more willing to pay for her.

You are! I had to read this twice. It was so ludicrous it didn't sink in right away.

Anyway heres a link to a chart I made that explains how to best farm butterflies as Wendy. It's way better than farming 180 mourning glory:

 

[Echsrick]

oh boy....i...i dont even know how i sould say things in a friendly manner, it is THIS wrong, like, just dont compare the 2? is it that what you do? trying to make look others worse just so you get your will? wendy has her own fair bit of upsides AND DOWNSIDES just like wortox has, wortox has his own share of problems, actualy kind of a bigger deal his downsides then the BARELY existing downside wendy gets, damage not everything, and thats her only "downside" dealing a bit less damage, wich gets completly negated if you attack with the ghost at the same time, or you know, just dont, for most every day encounters the ghost can just SOLO things, like no other character can just spawn into the world and gets a personal body guard, wendys skill tree is just as good, you lot are just greedy and want more and more with unreasonable needs to the point some of you started to insult the poor devs wich realy not a cool thing to do....realy sad realy, they workin on the updates for so long especialy now in the christmass times, please just give them a break allready

[ApoIIo]

4 hours ago, cyjs said:

Wortox can generate 276 souls (9✖️6✖️5➕6) as long as he has the Pan Flute and the Decomposition Staff. With these souls, he can go anywhere and obtain any resources easily, without fear of hunger or blood loss. And this only requires 2 skill points to achieve.

I am begging you to just kill bees

 

1 hour ago, Dingle said:

180 mourning glory? Are you seriously talking about using it to resurrect butterflies?

You are! I had to read this twice. It was so ludicrous it didn't sink in right away.

Anyway heres a link to a chart I made that explains how to best farm butterflies as Wendy. It's way better than farming 180 mourning glory:

 

I hope my facepalming was loud enough to be heard from china

[Dingle]

I'm seriously surprised no one else pointed out he was complaining about farming 180 mourning glory to RESURRECT A SINGLE BUTTERFLY over and over.

9 minutes ago, Bearger Enjoyer said:

I am begging you to just kill bees

 

I hope my facepalming was loud enough to be heard from china