suggestion Wendy's skill tree is acceptable but still could be better

[Xplan]

Considering there's been too many changes, so I don't want to ask Klei to redo it once again as it is too frustrating to the developer. All my suggestions tended to advise some minor adjustments.  

12.12EDIT: 

Klei just decided to put off Wendy's skill tree, which means there might be more changes going on. It is good to see Klei keeps working on high quality. Besides, my opinions still offered solutions that can improve Wendy at several aspects.

• Make Elixirs more effective on Wendy

In my opinion, Elixirs such as distilled vengeance and unyielding draught are quite useless. Wraith's Wreath is trying to let them play a role. But defending Wendy from just one hit is meaningless while any other helmet can protect Wendy better. Why not let these two Elixirs save Wendy from knockbacks while she is riding a beefalo? It means a lot to Wendy because there are so many knockbacks as the game progresses. And strengthen the vigor mortis to the level of magiluminescence.（maybe 15%）Spectral cure-all is okey as it is already useful enough.

• Make a distinction between Perennial Alter and Meat Effigy

This one is acceptable but still can be better. Firstly, Wendy is usually related to the ghost and crawling out of the grave does not quite fit Wendy, a fair young lady. So, my suggestion is to let Wendy resurrect like a ghost instead of a zombie. Secondly reviving from Perennial Alter, Wendy still loses max health. In exchange, Wendy can dig out her own items in this grave. According to my experiences while I was a noob, it is not the black health that makes me uncomfortable after I died, it is the Winter and Summer could kill me again on my way to retrieve my lost Eyebrella or Beefalo hat. As for the black health, ghastly experience can cure it. So why not allow this elixir to be more useful. 

•  Give back Gestalt Abigail her atk invincibility

The second version of Gestalt Abigail is strong of course. She could even solo boss with player's command so the developer nerfed Gestalt Abigail. But this is a bit overreacting. Controlling Abi to defeat the boss is actually "cutting one's leg and give him a wheelchair". Gestalt Abigail sacrifices her aoe and it ought to be strong as it is the ultimate skill. Developers considered the situation that new players may use it to kill boss easily, but this is not how common players get this skill unlocked. Imaging a new player who managed to defeat Celestial Champion and "upgraded" her Abigail for the reward along this journey…….

12.17: maybe we should remove player tag, and give back her atk invincibility. then there wont be player tag to help shadow abi

and buff shadow abi' dmg, making her more fragile.

allow both shadow and gestalt abi to swith to the ordinary one.

And I must say, it was pleasing when I see this version. Because I found that the newly updated stuff is what the player have suggested on this forum. It is obvious that Klei does listen to the players. That's why I wrote this content to deal with Wendy' current dilemma. Now Wendy has an anticipated skill tree as long as the developers don't be too stingy to Wendy. 

EDIT: Let distilled vengeance have the ability to protect Wendy from a knockback once so she will not easily fall off from beefalo while fighting to Armored Bearger, Rictus etc. It won't be too strong cause at early period of the game there isn't too many knockbacks. As it becomes useful, player have to compare it with Enlightened Crown. (Damage or Shield). Enhance Vigor mortis so it can help Wendy who don't like raising a beefalo. I think it's pretty balanced can benefit both riding-Wendy and walking-Wendy. 

[Peasant]

Makes sense

[Xplan]

Just now, YXukun said:

意义

Thank u!

[Lee lol]

Bug Fixed: Altars do not deduct maximum health, just like Meat Effigy. However, I agree that the Altar should be given the ability to collect drops to distinguish it from the Meat Effigy.
I think it makes sense to give more functionality to the distillation of vengeance and indomitable potions, they should last at least a while, but about Beefalo...... I don't know if Wendy deserves this privilege, as other characters can also tame beefalo, and training Beefalo is not exclusive to Wendy

Since the garland can be used by other characters, I think the part about beefalo is reasonable (or at least fair).

[RiceMilk]

If the potion can have a special effect on cows, it would indeed be very interesting.

I hope to adjust Shadow Abigail again. Killing small animals is too troublesome, and reviving butterflies does not solve this problem. If killing resurrected butterflies can provide longer gains, it may be even better.

[Xplan]

6 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

Bug Fixed: Altars do not deduct maximum health, just like Meat Effigy. However, I agree that the Altar should be given the ability to collect drops to distinguish it from the Meat Effigy.
I think it makes sense to give more functionality to the distillation of vengeance and indomitable potions, they should last at least a while, but about Beefalo...... I don't know if Wendy deserves this privilege, as other characters can also tame beefalo, and training Beefalo is not exclusive to Wendy

Since the garland can be used by other characters, I think the part about beefalo is reasonable (or at least fair).

我记得你是中国人来着，我的意思就是和肉块雕像做区分，把这个新墓碑改成，复活后依然会失去生命上限，反正温蒂有恢复上限的药，但取而代之的是随身物品会在墓穴里面，可以直接挖出来。

Just now, RiceMilk said:

如果药水能对奶牛有特殊效果，那确实会很有意思。

我希望再次调整 Shadow Abigail。杀害小动物太麻烦了，复活蝴蝶也解决不了这个问题。如果杀死复活的蝴蝶可以提供更长的收益，那可能会更好。

I agree but I don't want to ask too much in as rush. Just step by step.

11 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

错误修复：祭坛不会扣除最大生命值，就像肉雕像一样。然而，我同意应该赋予祭坛收集水滴的能力，以区别于肉像。
我认为赋予复仇和不屈药水的更多功能是有意义的，它们应该至少持续一段时间，但关于 Beefalo......我不知道 Wendy 是否应该拥有这种特权，因为其他角色也可以驯服 Beefalo，而训练 Beefalo 并不是 Wendy 独有的

既然花环可以被其他角色使用，我认为关于 beefalo 的部分是合理的（或者至少是公平的）。

我的另一个想法就是赋予，这两个药水类似于影甲的效果，复仇药剂用三个哀悼荣耀则可以挡三次，并且这个有内置cd，这样可以就可以与骨甲配合使用，交替扛伤。

[Lee lol]

7 minutes ago, Xplan said:

我记得你是中国人来着，我的意思就是和肉块雕像做区分，把这个新墓碑改成，复活后依然会失去生命上限，反正温蒂有恢复上限的药，但取而代之的是随身物品会在墓穴里面，可以直接挖出来。

I agree but I don't want to ask too much in as rush. Just step by step.

我的另一个想法就是赋予，这两个药水类似于影甲的效果，复仇药剂用三个哀悼荣耀则可以挡三次，并且这个有内置cd，这样可以就可以与骨甲配合使用，交替扛伤。

不一定要扣上限呀，小恶魔和女工的都不扣吧。第二个想法是好的，但是有点强估计他们不会给

[Xplan]

Just now, Lee lol said:

不一定要扣上限呀，小恶魔和女工的都不扣吧。第二个想法是好的，但是有点强估计他们不会给

扣上限以免Jason觉得too strong了。客观说第二个想法真的很强吗，小恶魔的天体线的效果感觉更强，不过人家的是阵营技能，确实得更厉害。

[Catapult 2.0]

Very supportive

[mikimiaomiao]

I agree with you very much, as a reward for Wendy's efforts to survive in the DST, and as a solicitation of Wendy by both factions, Abigail in both forms should also deserve to become stronger.

[1007954611]

支持

[Wendigail]

I think the lunar abigail skill is a bit strange.

Is there any precedent for other character's skill tree to actively weaken their strongest function to buff up for their weakest function?

[Xplan]

2 hours ago, Wendigail said:

我觉得月亮阿比盖尔技能有点奇怪。

其他角色的技能树有没有先例可以主动削弱他们最强的功能来增强他们最弱的功能？

There wasn't, but there can be 

[Lee Sy]

On 12/8/2024 at 2:49 PM, Xplan said:

温迪可以

在这个坟墓里挖出她自己的东西

这个我也喜欢，但他们会分不清哪些是玩家真正的声音，因为玩家的声音太过尖锐了。我还是认为在这个技能树上讨论如何改进没有意义，就像最开始玩家对裹尸布提出了很多建议，Jason表示会让阿比盖尔共享护甲，但最终的结果是裹尸布被删除。第二版时，Jason在直播中解释了为什么要给月灵abi那么多限制，因为它的伤害很高，然后它在下周就被削弱了，移除了无敌效果，添加了1秒的发呆后摇，伤害直接腰斩……现在，伟大的Jason推出了伟大的幽灵花环，我很好奇它的命运。

[Xplan]

19 minutes ago, Lee Sy said:

这个我也喜欢，但他们会分不清哪些是玩家真正的声音，因为玩家的声音太过尖锐了。我还是认为在这个技能树上讨论如何改进没有意义，就像最开始玩家对裹尸布提出了很多建议，Jason表示会让阿比盖尔共享护甲，但最终的结果是裹尸布被删除。第二版时，Jason在直播中解释了为什么要给月灵abi那么多限制，因为它的伤害很高，然后它在下周就被削弱了，移除了无敌效果，添加了1秒的发呆后摇，伤害直接腰斩......现在，伟大的Jason推出了伟大的幽灵花环，我很好奇它的命运。

哎，或许找到一些公认比较不错的点子，然后形成一个方向，把意见集中起来，减少无意义的大幅度改动的声音，还有机会让技能树更好

[Lee Sy]

1 minute ago, Xplan said:

哎，或许找到一些公认比较不错的点子，然后形成一个方向，把意见集中起来，减少无意义的大幅度改动的声音，还有机会让技能树更好

你我都不是专业的游戏设计师（可能），Jason会有自己的想法，玩家的反馈是必要的，但不可能直接决定游戏的发展。问题就是Jason似乎也不知道怎么做会对游戏更好了，不可能让声音大的一方绝对主导游戏更新，但自己的创意也很少得到肯定，我真的认为他需要协助，比如来自小恶魔设计师的帮助。

[SilverSpoon]

I think "atk invulnerability" is going too far. The biggest problem with the previous Gestabby was that it made it possible to almost AFK bosses.

I think "atk Protection + Planar Defense" is just right. That way, the player will moderately have to take aggro instead of the Gestabby, but the Gestabby will be tougher to a certain extent and giving the player more leeway.

Alternatively, add "atk invulnerability", but I also add "Reverse Vex" that Wendy needs to hit the enemy in order for Gestabby to deal high damage. I think it's lunar-like.

[Torpeda]

On 12/8/2024 at 7:49 AM, Xplan said:

In my opinion, Elixirs such as distilled vengeance and unyielding draught

I'm not really a Wendy player, but having tested those two elixirs they indeed feel quite underwhelming. I don't feel like the potions should work only when riding beefalo, tho.

Maybe after applying the potions Wendy's chest armour would lose less durability when being hit for certain period of time since you don't have head armour to transfer the damage to?

[Xplan]

9 hours ago, Torpeda said:

我并不是真正的 Wendy 玩家，但在测试了这两种灵丹妙药之后，它们确实感觉相当平淡。我觉得药水不应该只在骑 beefalo 时起作用。

也许在涂抹药水后，温蒂的胸甲在被击中一段时间后会失去较少的耐久度，因为你没有头部盔甲可以将伤害转移到上面？

I mean these two elixirs can work even when Wendy was riding the beefalo. While Wendy can easily haunt the pig, the elixirs must be worthy than football helmet. It's just hard to balance. Why not make it really useful for Wendy who drive and don't need helmet. Make vigor mortis useful for Wendy who walk.

[Xplan]

向上

[WenericMember]

With the multiple skill reworks, her tree has the strongest overall design imo with a bunch of skill synergies, but it needs a number off buffs. In no particular order: 

Increase gesaltigails circling radius. The endlag is needed to force interaction, but shes at present too vulnerable to splash.

Condense gravestone skills. Gravestones by wendy is currently far too niche for a tier 3. Merge the two and add a new buff to decorated graves.

Make  perrenial altar unique to effigy. Nuff said, buff it.

Make flower crown a purely supportive headgear. Its presently facing to much competition for in combay effects. Making alk effects utility based will make it mire useful.

Buff team spirit 1& 4. 4 needs rng qol, 1 needs buffs to make it more viable in combat, either through a hotkey or by cancelling the animation.

Thanks Klei for the buffs already, the tree has come so far.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

These small improvements can be replaced by other better ones.

Please redo the Wendy skill tree.

[Koomin]

-Beefalo Wendy is already super overpowered because of the bug with her vex ability.  It would be a great way to still keep Wendy a beefalo specialist and also fix the bug by adding the knockback preventing potions like you suggested.  Without fixing the bug this would just be buffing something that is already way too strong.

-The gravestone revive change you suggested is a really great idea.  The reasoning you gave is perfect.

-Invulnerability while attacking was what made Gestalt Abigail way too strong and able to solo kill so many bosses.  Removing it was absolutely the right decision.  It is available at the start of the game, and needs to be balanced for that.  I don't want to join a public server with everyone playing Gestalt Abigail and ruining the fun by killing all the bosses within seconds by standing and watching.

[Xplan]

6 hours ago, Koomin said:

-Beefalo Wendy is already super overpowered because of the bug with her vex ability.  It would be a great way to still keep Wendy a beefalo specialist and also fix the bug by adding the knockback preventing potions like you suggested.  Without fixing the bug this would just be buffing something that is already way too strong.

 Enlightened Crown has already buffed this companion, adding this elixir is actually nerfing the damage beefalo Wendy cause.

[Lee Sy]

在现版本的基础上调整没有意义，我支持重做，但不要让you know who来重做