Lee lol Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 After fighting the Moon Boss in the beta, I think: Gestalt Abi's nerfing is overdone. Now Abigail has a hard time surviving the battle with the Moon Boss, even if she raises her HP limit and takes potion early, she is unable to deal effective output, and her survival rate has decreased. Shadow Abbey's damage is more consistent in comparison, while its survivability is about the same as Gestalt Abbey. Anyone who has tried the beta will choose Shadow Abi over Gestalt Abi, and I don't think that's a good thing. For other skill tree content: The corolla is of little use to Wendy. But given that it only costs one skill point, and can be used by other teammates, I won't say much more. Not useful for veterans, there are better alternatives for newbies, (dumplings and headlamp caps) can also save head armor. If you can, increase the effectiveness of distilling revenge as well as indomitable potions, as they are almost useless now. OR: While wearing the corolla, by giving Abigail a potion, Wendy enjoys the same effect, as suggested in this post: What I like: Wendy can be resurrected from exclusive items, I love its textures, it's really beautiful.Wendy's wreath can be used by other characters, which might add some spice. My suggestion: 1. Rewind Gestalt Abi's invincibility frame, OR restore her original damage. 2. Add an effect to the Corolla that increases plane damage, 5 or 10, as somebody said in this post. 3.About the Corolla: The effect now is that once you remove it and put it back on, its effect will disappear. My suggestion is that when the Corolla is added with a potion, the effect will not disappear when removed, but will last for a while. This means that when you quickly remove it and put it back on, it won't go away. PS:Regarding Gestalt, there's one more I forgot to mention: Abi will still be locked on by monsters if she has less than 25% HP, so ...... I don't know what this 25% is for, reducing the output while not improving the survival rate Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudf Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 9 minutes ago, Lee lol said: The corolla is of little use. But given that it only costs one skill point, I won't say much more This is supposed to be the one cool thing Wendy would have 9 minutes ago, Lee lol said: Butterfly Conversion: The cost is too expensive, and 2 or 1 mourning glory is justified This skill probably will never be useful, you can let Abigail attack bees near base in daytime, catch the bees before Abigail kills them, and catch a bunch of bees in no time. It is justified if the wreath is more useful... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770005 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee lol Posted December 7, 2024 Author Share Posted December 7, 2024 8 minutes ago, cloudf said: This is supposed to be the one cool thing Wendy would have This skill probably will never be useful, you can let Abigail attack bees near base in daytime, catch the bees before Abigail kills them, and catch a bunch of bees in no time. It is justified if the wreath is more useful... Butterfly conversion is useful if you're in the middle of a battle, provided it's a 1:1 exchange Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770011 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenericMember Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 12 minutes ago, cloudf said: This is supposed to be the one cool thing Wendy would have People are being overly negative about the skill and idk why. Passive hp regeneration is great, as the only other way to really get it is to kill bq. The shield can prevent all damage from bosses like tha shadow pieces, while if you dont want to tame a beefalo, mortis is one of your best options for moving marble, with qol for other items. Cheaper moggles is nice too, especially aa it doesnt require its own equipment slot. It could use some more qol, but its hardly worthless with how accessible it is. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770012 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee lol Posted December 7, 2024 Author Share Posted December 7, 2024 3 minutes ago, WenericMember said: 人们对这项技能过于消极，不知道为什么。被动 hp 恢复很棒，因为真正获得它的唯一其他方法是杀死 bq。盾牌可以防止像影子碎片这样的 Boss 的所有伤害，而你不想驯服牛肉，mortus 是你最好的选择之一，其他物品可以使用 qol。更便宜的护目镜也不错，尤其是 aa 它不需要自己的设备槽。 Because it costs 40hp to make this medicine itself, you get a bonus of 75hp, which is equivalent to only adding 35hp, even less than a dumpling; And Bee Queen is one of Wendy's best bosses. It costs only one skill point, which is not expensive but not very useful. I just don't think it's good for raising Wendy's ceiling/it's of little use for any Wendy skilled player. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770017 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenericMember Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 5 minutes ago, Lee lol said: Because it costs 40hp to make this medicine itself, you get a bonus of 75hp, which is equivalent to only adding 35hp, even less than a dumpling; And Bee Queen is one of Wendy's best bosses. It costs only one skill point, which is not expensive but not very useful. I just don't think it's good for raising Wendy's ceiling/it's of little use for any Wendy skilled player. Its not like Wendys ever short of hp out of combat. She can get as many glands and tents as he needs for out of combat healing. So the hp cost is trivial. In combat healing is much more annoying as you jave to manage abigail at the same time. Bee Queen may be one of Wendys best bosses, but only gives so many jelllybeans, and still takes sibstantial prep. Wendy's ceiling is good as is with her ateam spirit skills and alignment perks ( though lunar needs balancing). What matters is her diversity and accessibility, things that this skill massively improves. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudf Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 I do think the potential is here, however 15 minutes ago, WenericMember said: Passive hp regeneration is great, as the only other way to really get it is to kill bq One of the reasons jelly beans are strong is that they require you to do nothing other than eat one, while the wreath needs you to sacrifice a head slot, which is a lot to ask for... I don't think it is comparable to jelly beans, it is more of an alternative version of honey salves. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenericMember Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 1 minute ago, cloudf said: I do think the potential is here, however One of the reasons jelly beans are strong is that they require you to do nothing other than eat one, while the wreath needs you to sacrifice a head slot, which is a lot to ask for... I don't think it is comparable to jelly beans, it is more of an alternative version of honey salves. Depend on the boss tbh. Slower bosses that dont require much movement (magi) like fw id say its comparably to jellybeans. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770036 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee lol Posted December 7, 2024 Author Share Posted December 7, 2024 2 minutes ago, WenericMember said: 取决于老板 tbh。像 fw id 这样不需要太多移动的慢速 Boss （magi） 说它与软糖豆相当。 Do you mean fuelweaver? i think you need to wear bee queen hat to fight with it. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenericMember Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 6 minutes ago, Lee lol said: Do you mean fuelweaver? i think you need to wear bee queen hat to fight with it. You can, but its not the only method people use. Considerimg it dpes take an equipment slot, it could probably stand for some slight buffs. I just dont think its anywhere close to an obsolete skill. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
layangan putus Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 3 minutes ago, Lee lol said: Do you mean fuelweaver? i think you need to wear bee queen hat to fight with it. If you have mastered the AFW fight & animation cancelling, without any abilities or any kind of cheese you can defeat AFW without BQ Crown and Weather Pain - Just need clubs, lazy explorer(s), ruins helmets, yellow amulet, purple amulet, sanity food worth more than 600, and also healing food worth 100. Although, it's very unlikely for new players without meta knowledge to beat AFW easily so a free slot for BQ Crown will be really helpful for the fight. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee lol Posted December 7, 2024 Author Share Posted December 7, 2024 3 minutes ago, DST enjoyer said: If you have mastered the AFW fight & animation cancelling, without any abilities or any kind of cheese you can defeat AFW without BQ Crown and Weather Pain - Just need clubs, lazy explorer(s), ruins helmets, yellow amulet, purple amulet, sanity food worth more than 600, and also healing food worth 100. Although, it's very unlikely for new players without meta knowledge to beat AFW easily so a free slot for BQ Crown will be really helpful for the fight. So what do you mean? Do you find Corolla useful in the fight with FW? Regarding Gestalt, there's one more I forgot to mention: Abbie will still be locked on by monsters if he has less than 25% HP, so ...... I don't know what this 25% is for, reducing the output while not improving the survival rate Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
layangan putus Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 3 minutes ago, Lee lol said: So what do you mean? Do you find Corolla useful in the fight with FW? No, but you can't say Corolla being bad item just because it wouldn't be useful in AFW fight. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cloudf Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 21 minutes ago, WenericMember said: Depend on the boss tbh. Slower bosses that dont require much movement (magi) like fw id say its comparably to jellybeans. The potion heals 75 points over 30 seconds, a jelly bean heals 120 points over 120 seconds, if the number is tuned a bit then it would be comparable to jelly beans I guess. When fighting fw, do you really want to leave you unprotected when switching to the nightmare amulet or have even more things to juggle with... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenericMember Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 1 minute ago, cloudf said: The potion heals 75 points over 30 seconds, a jelly bean heals 120 points over 120 seconds, if the number is tuned a bit then it would be comparable to jelly beans I guess. When fighting fw, do you really want to leave you unprotected when switching to the nightmare amulet or have even more things to juggle with... Eh? Youre only equipping the nightmare amulet when FW has its barrier up, at which point you shouldnt be in its attack range as you cant attack it. Since you dont want to be insane more than necessary id say its a minor thing. Also, 2 of the elixirs heals more hp than Jellybeans in half the time, so id say its comparable as is. I think the crown should have a global passive bonus when equipped to supplement the potions effects, like a small planar damage buff or smthn. Bc the head slot is admittedly quite a drawback. The Potion effects are close to overtuned as is. made the baseline change a dedicted post if people are interested. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770066 Share on other sites More sharing options...
layangan putus Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 @Lee lol Just tested again, I got it all wrong. That preparation only works for buffed WG.. you need more sanity food & healing food against AFW but if you don't want to use BQ hat & any weather pains also reluctant to prepare more healing food - The cheapest preparation without any special abilities, just go for snurtle armors and ruins hats. Definitely works for Wes .50, Wendy .75, or any attack modifier. The point is the skill tree (including Corolla) doesn't need to make any specific fight easier, it just needs to make overall combat interesting for the player because you are not supposed to have any abilities unlocked yet especially the shadow/lunar ones. Unfortunately, I think the Wendy skill tree is not going more interesting than before and facing some issues with post-rift bosses so yea unlucky I guess. I suppose the shadow/lunar abilities should benefit the power of a character in post-rift world but not before. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770153 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyjs Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 Wendy’s skill tree does not allow Wendy to survive better in the post-moon version. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770157 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzzzzzzzzz Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 There is no good mechanism, just some simple numerical values, which will be completely scrapped if weakened. Now this is the end of Wendy's skill tree. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770159 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSpoon Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 (PTSD of Shadow Maul Lifesteel 10.4 → 3.4) Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770162 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lio516 Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 3 hours ago, WenericMember said: People are being overly negative about the skill and idk why Did you know that once the garland is removed, the gain will disappear immediately, and you will not reappear when you put it back on, which means you will have to abandon the head gear completely Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770175 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sacco Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 16 minutes ago, zzzzzzzzzzz said: There is no good mechanism, just some simple numerical values, which will be completely scrapped if weakened. Now this is the end of Wendy's skill tree. THE END. Don't be so pessimistic please! You just want abi to be op, that's it... Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzzzzzzzzzz Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 2分钟前，Sacco说： 结束。 请不要这么悲观！ 你只是想让abi成为op，仅此而已...... If you can't understand what I'm saying, don't misunderstand me. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770185 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussoDaFederal Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 3 hours ago, WenericMember said: Cheaper moggles is nice too, especially aa it doesnt require its own equipment slot. It absolutely does tho. If you remove the garland you lose the effect. And if you put it back on you have to use the elixir on it again. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770186 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WenericMember Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 5 minutes ago, RussoDaFederal said: It absolutely does tho. If you remove the garland you lose the effect. And if you put it back on you have to use the elixir on it again. Yeah hope that gets fixed lol. I was more meaning that ypure already gping to want nostrum on you, and to use the garland fpr other things. 14 minutes ago, lio516 said: Did you know that once the garland is removed, the gain will disappear immediately, and you will not reappear when you put it back on, which means you will have to abandon the head gear completely Yeah, thats something that needs fixing. I dont think that kills the skills usefulness tho. Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770190 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RussoDaFederal Posted December 7, 2024 Share Posted December 7, 2024 2 minutes ago, WenericMember said: Yeah hope that gets fixed lol. I was more meaning that ypure already gping to want nostrum on you, and to use the garland fpr other things. I mean, yeah, the nostrum effect is nice, but there are better options to spend my insight points. Tbh I'm biased because I disliked the "let Wendy use the elixirs on herself" idea back when it was just a suggestion, and now the only really cool thing about this wreath for me is the night vision. So it's not worth it to spend two insight points on a skill I know I'd only use for night vision, even if it has other cool perks 5 minutes ago, Fitzee said: I wouldn't have taken the literal drinking route personally, but rather applying elixirs to the wreath itself; having the effect persist on it would then make more sense. Not saying that they can't make it persist now, but that's my guess as to why they made the effects go away when you take the wreath off, even after re-equipping it. That's exactly how it works tho, you have to apply the elixir to the garland, I agree that this should be fixed Link to comment https://forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/161963-avoid-going-from-one-extreme-to-the-other-about-gestalt-abi/#findComment-1770203 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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