gestalt abi has been overnerf, and we still have no change for fighting planar mobs

[Steorra]

Halfed DPS but nerfed her survive at the same time means far more than 50%+ nerf. She was not powerful enough for such nerf. Are we seriously to fix the balance issue by "50+% nerf" or "100%+ buff"? This seems unhealthy for balance.

And we still have no change for fighting planar mobs for both lunar and shadow abi. (An idea regardless is to double the fire rate of shadow abi, to increase planar damage of lunar abi.)

Is this the final design? It would be disappointed.

[Fufuji]

This "sniper" Abigail now has a laughable AI and acts as if it intends to go get beaten up by planar bosses, retreat and fail Wendy.

[Steorra]

7 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

I'm considering making a suggestion thread describing how both Abigails could be tweaked and better balanced, both for pre and post rift. Would you care to share your suggestions so that I have a foundation to go off of?

Lunar line:

1. Rollback the "untargetable" feature for Gestalt Abi

2. Increase damage of Gestalt Abi by 10%～15%

3. Increase 50% planar damage for lunar elixir buff, and this change should be keep adjusting in future.

Shadow line:

1. Decrease 50% damage per hit for Shadow Abi (Which actived by murdering)

2. Double the hit-rate of Shadow Abi.

3. Add 5 planar damage for Shadow Abi's basic damage. This should be keep adjusting in future.

 

And one QoL change: To make Lunar and Shadow sister hood II could leanrt at same time, which like how Winona skill tree designed.

 

 

[Lee lol]

我刚刚试了用格式塔打月亮熊和鹿，阿比的灵活性被大大削弱了，现在阿比基本受几次伤就会死，她打不了多少伤害，打地下三基佬和亮茄还可以。现在格式塔阿比要变得不那么脆只能上加速度的药，好像还稍微管点用。

I just tried to hit the Moon Bear and the Deer with Gestalt, and Abi's flexibility has been greatly weakened, and now she will soon die after a few injuries, she can't do much damage, but it's okay to hit the Shadow Monsters and lunarplant. Now if Gestalt Abbi wants to become less brittle and can only use acceleration medicine, which seems to work a little.

[Steorra]

Also If there we need something for further more balance, we could simply add a dps decreaing mechanic to Gestalt Abi like that work for Maxwell shadow fighters.

Just now, Lee lol said:

我刚刚试了用格式塔打月亮熊和鹿，阿比的灵活性被大大削弱了，现在阿比基本受几次伤就会死，她打不了多少伤害，打地下三基佬和亮茄还可以。现在格式塔阿比要变得不那么脆只能上加速度的药，好像还稍微管点用。

I just tried to hit the Moon Bear and the Deer with Gestalt, and Abi's flexibility has been greatly weakened, and now she will soon die after a few injuries, she can't do much damage, but it's okay to hit the Shadow Monsters and lunarplant. Now if Gestalt Abbi wants to become less brittle and can only use acceleration medicine, which seems to work a little.

From "wow, OP" to "completely meaningless (comparing with Shadow one)" is a bad balance change.

[Steorra]

2 minutes ago, Fitzee said:

Some questions:

1) I'm assuming these are tweaks based on the update we are currently in?

2) Does rolling back the untargetable feature mean that she won't be targeted after she attacks? (I don't know much about Gestalt Abigail.)

3) When you say something should keep adjusting in the future, do you mean that it's numbers should be tweaked until it's at a balanced spot?

4) Does a 50% damage decrease for Shadow Abigail mean that it's halved, or it's decreased by literally 50%?

5) Do you think she could get away with 10 planar damage instead, so that her damage is at a nice 50 at her max potential?

6) Does your QOL change mean that Wendy can make and apply both alignment potions regardless of her affinity?

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. I mean halved. But I was thought that 100%-50% is equal as halved...

5. I guess this adjustment would be just a try for better result. But I'm not sure about the exactly amounts, which means this would need more adjustment for balance in future.

6. Yes. Since for current patch players would attempt to use those two elixirs (if they need) by simply switching character, that would be weird and boring. I think to make those two elixir skills could be applied at same time would be better.

[Koomin]

Shadow Abigail should get her damage reduced (nerf) and some of her damage changed to planar damage (buff).  This would solve the problem of her being the obvious best choice early game, solve the problem of lacking planar damage and being weak late game, and solve the problem of Shadow form producing too high damage early game and demolishing bosses.

[Steorra]

5 minutes ago, Koomin said:

Shadow Abigail should get her damage reduced (nerf) and some of her damage changed to planar damage (buff).  This would solve the problem of her being the obvious best choice early game, solve the problem of lacking planar damage and being weak late game, and solve the problem of Shadow form producing too high damage early game and demolishing bosses.

A problem is that if the planar damage only dealt by Shadow Abi, it may not enough since the main DPS was dealt by Wendy (who have no planar DPS buff from skill tree)

There is a method to try to fix this problem, which is to make Shadow Abi have ability to make a debuff for vexed target which dealt planar damage by get hitting. But it would be repetitive like what Wolter have.

I have to say I'm not sure what would be more better for this intention.

[Koomin]

2 minutes ago, Steorra said:

A problem is that if the planar damage only dealt by Shadow Abi, it may not enough sinc the main DPS was dealt by Wendy.

There is a method to try to fix this problem, which is to make Shadow Abi have ability to make a debuff for vexed target which dealt planar damage by get hitting. But it would be repetitive like what Wolter have.

I have to say I'm not sure what would be more better for this intention.

Doing the same thing with the vex damage (Making the extra portion of vex damage that Shadow Abigail gives be planar damage, and reducing the number a tad for the same reasons as above), seems good yea.

[1007954611]

这削弱的刀法可真好啊，刀刀对准大动脉上砍，设计师这是学了三国杀通渠吗

[SilverSpoon]

My compromise would be to keep the previous mechanics, give Geshbby some damage reduction while attacking.

[Soul7k]

i get the idea of having to actively participate in fighting with her so she doesn't just roll bosses, but they literally blew off her kneecaps with the nerf. reducing her damage by 25% to 300 would have been a heavy start, but 50% is overkill

[SilverSpoon]

Just now, Soul7k said:

i get the idea of having to actively participate in fighting with her so she doesn't just roll bosses, but they literally blew off her kneecaps with the nerf

Yeah agree. 

If Wendy is going to participate in boss battles, it should be made so that she have to. Simply just nerfing Abigail is not a fundamental solution, since she can do the same thing by spending time and elixir.