Wendy's instability makes it difficult to get the same intensity from her actions as other characters in the game

[purelove]

4 minutes ago, YXukun said:

You don't have to beat potato man in dealing damage. If you mean that "current skilltree provided nothing other than big numbers, so it's still bad" then just say so. Bringing potato man into conversation would make you look like you want Wendy surpass potato man in damage.

Wolfgang has a stronger work speed, faster movement speed, the ability to carry statues, in fact, Wolfgang is basically a powerful character everywhere, and I just want to say that even if Wendy gets a strong fighting ability, she is still completely unable to match the really simple and rough Wolfgang.

[Reiko24]

Holy, you will never be satisfied, will you?

She won't be the best at everything. Accept it. She won't be the most overpowered character who can do everything and anything. Stop complaining, she is now very strong. Stop.

4 minutes ago, purelove said:

Wolfgang has a stronger work speed, faster movement speed, the ability to carry statues, in fact, Wolfgang is basically a powerful character everywhere, and I just want to say that even if Wendy gets a strong fighting ability, she is still completely unable to match the really simple and rough Wolfgang.

And he is BORING. Do you want Wendy to be boring? Wolfgang is just a stat stick, do you want Wendy to be a stat stick that does all? Think a little.

[Peasant]

1 minute ago, purelove said:

Wolfgang has a stronger work speed, faster movement speed, the ability to carry statues, in fact, Wolfgang is basically a powerful character everywhere, and I just want to say that even if Wendy gets a strong fighting ability, she is still completely unable to match the really simple and rough Wolfgang.

You don't get what I mean… You simply can't compare any character with the mighty Potato Man. Even if you meant something good at the beginning you would end up as if you want another potato man.

What you should do is simply state the fact that Wendy is only good at fighting and has little QoL contents

[Lee lol]

14 minutes ago, YXukun said:

You don't have to beat potato man in dealing damage. If you mean that "current skilltree provided nothing other than big numbers, so it's still bad" then just say so. Bringing potato man into conversation would make you look like you want Wendy surpass potato man in damage.

Agree，As I pointed in another post, potato man is one of the most boring skill tree,there is no need to compare wendy to his.

 

[purelove]

14 minutes ago, Reiko24 said:

Holy, you will never be satisfied, will you?

She won't be the best at everything. Accept it. She won't be the most overpowered character who can do everything and anything. Stop complaining, she is now very strong. Stop.

And he is BORING. Do you want Wendy to be boring? Wolfgang is just a stat stick, do you want Wendy to be a stat stick that does all? Think a little.

God, this is a survival game, and Wolfgang is not even the strongest character in the game, and even has something like Maxwell, but is more powerful without a skill tree, both damage and functionality, I don't understand, what's the problem with comparing Wolfgang to that?

Wolfgang's not the absolute strongest character, not really.

And Wendy's whole process alone is definitely harder than Maxwell's.

8 minutes ago, YXukun said:

You don't get what I mean… You simply can't compare any character with the mighty Potato Man. Even if you meant something good at the beginning you would end up as if you want another potato man.

What you should do is simply state the fact that Wendy is only good at fighting and has little QoL contents

I don't understand why you're so stressed about mentioning Wolfgang, because after this rough skill tree added damage, Wendy gained the ability to be compared to Wolfgang on paper, which is why I used Wolfgang for the comparison.

Why are you talking about Wolfgang, every one of you like a cat with a foot on its tail?

7 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

Agree，As I pointed in another post, potato man is one of the most boring skill tree,there is no need to compare wendy to his.

 

Did you exclude Wolfgang from the game? Even though he's totally reviled by everyone as being the roughest and easiest character, Wolfgang is still not the strongest character, and I don't understand why you guys get so excited about Wolfgang?

[Peasant]

6 minutes ago, purelove said:

I don't understand why you're so stressed about mentioning Wolfgang, because after this rough skill tree added damage, Wendy gained the ability to be compared to Wolfgang on paper, which is why I used Wolfgang for the comparison.

Why are you talking about Wolfgang, every one of you like a cat with a foot on its tail?

Because using potato man as an example would make you look like you want another potato man, which wouldn't make your arguement sounds that firm.

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

说白了就是语言的问题，大家没办法表达的特别清楚。但凡能好好对接下这边，我们都不至于这样

[Sacco]

3 hours ago, YXukun said:

I was refering to situation before the skilltree. Besides, post rift potions merely give Abigail bigger numbers, while her vulnerablility still lies there, which is the reason why people can seldom gain benefit from her.

That's the point, she has to have some vulnerability.

[purelove]

3 hours ago, YXukun said:

Because using potato man as an example would make you look like you want another potato man, which wouldn't make your arguement sounds that firm.

If just because comparing Wolfgang is trying to be Wolfgang, then you'll never be able to compare anything again in this life.

It's important for a game that each character has their own so-called fun way of running it, similar to a librarian, which allows it to transcend technological limitations.

Wanda needs to prepare for Magic technology Level 2, the robot needs to find a plug-in that makes it night vision before the skill tree, so that it can better clean up the ancient world, and Wendy can do?

Her operational idea is to keep playing more games to accumulate experience, either to cheat and skip rounds, or to frantically collect resources and defeat the boss in a mindless way, if you use the normal, other characters' ideas to become strong,

it's very difficult, she doesn't have an interesting, cross this hurdle to get something to become strong, You already need to collect a lot of things, now you need to collect more things, if it's also collecting more, why not plant marble at home and rely on marble armor to defeat bosses?

一个游戏很重要的是每个角色都有自己所谓的趣味性运营方式，类似于图书管理员，可以使得它跨越科技限制。旺达需要筹备魔法科技二级，机器人在技能树之前需要寻找使得自己夜视的插件，便于更好的清理远古，而温蒂能干什么？

她的运营思路就是，不停的进行更多对局积累经验，要么就是使用作弊方法跳过回合，要么就是疯狂收集资源，用无脑的方式击败boss，如果用正常的，其他角色的思路变得强大，很困难，她没有一个有趣的，跨过这个坎就获得什么东西变得强大的路线，而是本来就需要收集很多东西，现在要收集更多东西，如果同样都是收集更多，为什么不在家栽种大理石依靠大理石护甲击败boss呢？

[Lee lol]

8 minutes ago, purelove said:

If just because comparing Wolfgang is trying to be Wolfgang, then you'll never be able to compare anything again in this life.

It's important for a game that each character has their own so-called fun way of running it, similar to a librarian, which allows it to transcend technological limitations.

Wanda needs to prepare for Magic technology Level 2, the robot needs to find a plug-in that makes it night vision before the skill tree, so that it can better clean up the ancient world, and Wendy can do?

Her operational idea is to keep playing more games to accumulate experience, either to cheat and skip rounds, or to frantically collect resources and defeat the boss in a mindless way, if you use the normal, other characters' ideas to become strong,

it's very difficult, she doesn't have an interesting, cross this hurdle to get something to become strong, You already need to collect a lot of things, now you need to collect more things, if it's also collecting more, why not plant marble at home and rely on marble armor to defeat bosses?

一个游戏很重要的是每个角色都有自己所谓的趣味性运营方式，类似于图书管理员，可以使得它跨越科技限制。旺达需要筹备魔法科技二级，机器人在技能树之前需要寻找使得自己夜视的插件，便于更好的清理远古，而温蒂能干什么？

她的运营思路就是，不停的进行更多对局积累经验，要么就是使用作弊方法跳过回合，要么就是疯狂收集资源，用无脑的方式击败boss，如果用正常的，其他角色的思路变得强大，很困难，她没有一个有趣的，跨过这个坎就获得什么东西变得强大的路线，而是本来就需要收集很多东西，现在要收集更多东西，如果同样都是收集更多，为什么不在家栽种大理石依靠大理石护甲击败boss呢？

She needs to collect the potions, i guess wendy dont need to train beefalo necessariely now.

[purelove]

6 minutes ago, Lee lol said:

She needs to collect the potions, i guess wendy dont need to train beefalo necessariely now.

ut in fact, collecting potions just makes her become a fake Wolfgang, and increasing the efficiency of potion making cannot solve the fundamental problem of her small scope of potion effects. She may need to have a new model, or weapons, or operational privileges that she can rely on, because aoe itself is not such a strong business ability, she is mostly just icing on the cake, unlike other characters who can rely on a certain way to make money.

[Peasant]

24 minutes ago, Sacco said:

That's the point, she has to have some vulnerability.

Too vulnerable, when facing post rift bosses. When fighting post rift bosses, Wendy can hardly gain her benefits even with good skills, which I don't reckon is supposed to happen in DST. A character has special abilities, and this special ability should work well under any circumstances, at least that's what I think.

[Lee lol]

2 minutes ago, YXukun said:

Too vulnerable, when facing post rift bosses. When fighting post rift bosses, Wendy can hardly gain her benefits even with good skills, which I don't reckon is supposed to happen in DST. A character has special abilities, and this special ability should work well under any circumstances, at least that's what I think.

I guess this has been partly sovled by Gestalt abi? Maybe solved too much, as they said. Not the shadow abi.

[Peasant]

Just now, Lee lol said:

I guess this has been partly sovled by Gestalt abi? Maybe solved too much, as they said. Not the shadow abi.

Gestalt Abi indeed. All gestalt Abi need now is slightly decrease her damage.

[Sacco]

3 hours ago, YXukun said:

Too vulnerable, when facing post rift bosses. When fighting post rift bosses, Wendy can hardly gain her benefits even with good skills, which I don't reckon is supposed to happen in DST. A character has special abilities, and this special ability should work well under any circumstances, at least that's what I think.

and they can work

[Peasant]

6 minutes ago, Sacco said:

and they can work

How did you managed to keep Abigail alive facing armored bearger? Or the Lunar Varg? Or the Crystal Deerclops?

[arubaro]

7 hours ago, purelove said:

God, this is a survival game, and Wolfgang is not even the strongest character in the game, and even has something like Maxwell, but is more powerful without a skill tree, both damage and functionality, I don't understand, what's the problem with comparing Wolfgang to that?

Wolfgang's not the absolute strongest character, not really.

And Wendy's whole process alone is definitely harder than Maxwell's.

You say is a survival game but you are asking to make it a walking simulator

[zzzzzzzzzzz]

Simply put, we hope that Wendy's skill tree is interesting and there is no need to pay too much attention to the so-called balance.

The most important thing is to increase the playability of the character.

[arubaro]

4 hours ago, YXukun said:

Too vulnerable, when facing post rift bosses. When fighting post rift bosses, Wendy can hardly gain her benefits even with good skills, which I don't reckon is supposed to happen in DST. A character has special abilities, and this special ability should work well under any circumstances, at least that's what I think.

Then what is the point of downsides?

You simply want to have a permanent damage buff

4 hours ago, YXukun said:

Gestalt Abi indeed. All gestalt Abi need now is slightly decrease her damage.

No, she needs changes of how she works to dont be free damage without player input

[Sacco]

47 minutes ago, YXukun said:

How did you managed to keep Abigail alive facing armored bearger? Or the Lunar Varg? Or the Crystal Deerclops?

With her skill tree abi is now able to survive those attacks.

There is also lunar abi which against bosses is almost unkillable.

[Peasant]

1 minute ago, arubaro said:

Then what is the point of downsides?

You simply want to have a permanent damage buff

The downside is, if people made a mistake and caused Abigail in danger of being attacked by a boss, they'll have to deside to whether just let Abigail take the damage, or take the damage for Abigail. The former may eventually lead to Abigail's death, making Wendy Wes in battle, while the later endangers Wendy's own skins, or at least causing her to consume more resources. This requirement for skills is where Wendy's fun lies. 

1 minute ago, Sacco said:

With her skill tree abi is now able to survive those attacks.

There is also lunar abi which against bosses is almost unkillable.

I was talking about in pre-skilltree version.

Though, if we take skilltree into consideration, lunar Abi indeed generally solved the problem, which is the reason why I fancy that perk. The only problem with it is that it can almost solo weak bosses like deerclops, which I don't think is healthy for the game.

As for the 600 extra hp, I reckon it provides little help against the Lunar Trio, for each one of them could easily wipe out that amount of hp. A player tag may be more helpful…or not? I dunno.

23 minutes ago, arubaro said:

No, she needs changes of how she works to dont be free damage without player input

Wasn't Abigail a free damage without player input before? All you have to do is summon her and bang bang bang, you get silks and honey and other stuff. Why didn't you bring that up earlier?

[purelove]

So-called simplicity has taken its toll in other areas.

[Lee Sy]

On 12/4/2024 at 4:53 PM, Kwaik said:

I'm not sure why beating wolfgang in single target DPS should be the benchmark. Wolfgang should be one of the best in the game at this, as that's really his entire draw. 

Wendy is built around the utility of having Abigail and what she brings to the table 

 

 

 

On 12/5/2024 at 1:12 PM, Lardee said:

I really really hope Klei does not balance Wendy around Wolfgang.

It's okay if some characters are just not as strong as others.

 

Wendy是纯粹的战斗角色，她没有任何战斗以外的作用。土豆人还可以搬运重物和高效工作，Wigfrid也能分发防具，在战斗中提供群体增益。谁来告诉我温蒂有什么用呢？穿上好看的皮肤在一旁为大家加油吗？

如果温蒂除了战斗什么都做不到，我不认为给予她战斗方面的特化会失衡。考虑到角色背景，也许一个小姑娘不应该比大力士的力气更大，所以她只能打扮得美美的成为一个花瓶吗？

当你在路人服务器选择了温蒂，大家会默认你什么都不用做，躲在冰箱附近偷吃大家做好的料理就够了。其他角色已经登神，而温蒂除了好看的皮肤什么也没有，甚至还要被形容为最强的角色，太不可思议了。

[usagiP]

I understand what you mean
Why compare with Wolfgang? Because Wendy's most notable and only advantage is her combat ability. So you have to compare her with Wolfgang, who is the strongest in combat.
Wendy's combat ability, even at full strength, cannot match Wolfgang's intensity (and this applies to every character, not just Wendy), not to mention that Wolfgang has QOL that she doesn't have
So she either needs to become more powerful in combat (which no one wants（maybe someone wants？I won't deny those people), or gain more QOL, and find some other solutions

[Kwaik]

6 hours ago, Lee Sy said:

 

 

Wendy是纯粹的战斗角色，她没有任何战斗以外的作用。土豆人还可以搬运重物和高效工作，Wigfrid也能分发防具，在战斗中提供群体增益。谁来告诉我温蒂有什么用呢？穿上好看的皮肤在一旁为大家加油吗？

如果温蒂除了战斗什么都做不到，我不认为给予她战斗方面的特化会失衡。考虑到角色背景，也许一个小姑娘不应该比大力士的力气更大，所以她只能打扮得美美的成为一个花瓶吗？

当你在路人服务器选择了温蒂，大家会默认你什么都不用做，躲在冰箱附近偷吃大家做好的料理就够了。其他角色已经登神，而温蒂除了好看的皮肤什么也没有，甚至还要被形容为最强的角色，太不可思议了。

Wendy Iń do̠ cet́em roṛet́ kana ona do̠ baṅ baḍaeok̕ kana. Sarhao!