Proposed changes to some characters (by me)

[DegenerateFurry]

8 hours ago, Sacco said:

Hi, as some of you might know, i'm a fan of balance used as a method to create new gameplay strategies, therefore making the game more unique and engaging.

Here there are a couple of proposed changes to some characters i think are needed:

MAXWELL:

1) Give the shadow prison spell a cooldown (15 seconds), so you can't immobilize bosses anymore, making the gameplay experience as Maxwell more dynamic and less of a press two buttons to spawn some duelists.

2) Make the player lose 5 hp when spawning warriors.

This would open two methods of playing the game.

The first, and safer is to just watch them fight, but this implies that his shadows are gonna die, therefore you'll lose a ton of health throughout the fight.

The second, more dangerous but theoratically more rewarding is to engage combat alongside you warriors.

This would be very rewarding to skill players, but harder to pull off, cause you risk to take damage and die.

I don't agree with any of these. Spamming shadow prison is already resource-intensive, especially if you're using multiple duelists while you do it (you will have to constantly cram sanity food) and it makes fighting complex since messing up once can be disastrous in some cases. Maxwell losing health rather than sanity when he summons a minion isn't how I think he should be nerfed either, since he already has very low health and it'd just mean he also needs to spam healing food. Also, Klei wants Maxwell to be more active in fights, not less, and making him lose health from summoning duelists would just discourage active fighting and encourage beefalo Maxwell even more. 
I think it'd be interesting if being under a certain sanity threshold (really low, maybe 10?) as Maxwell started making his minions despawn faster, representing him losing control over them as he loses control over his own mind. It'd soft-nerf the amount he can have out while also requiring better sanity management, and it'd discourage overusing either minions or shadow prison since using both to their maximum would require constant resummoning and waste Codex Umbra uses and nightmare fuel. 

8 hours ago, Sacco said:

WANDA:

1) Reduce her effective hp to 120.

If you don't know, Wanda effectively has 150 hp currently

With this change Wanda is now knocked down while in her old stage easier (30 hp instead of 37.5 effective hp), this would increase the risk/reward factor.

2) Reduce her speed by a small percent when old (10?).

With this change people will be using old Wanda just to fight, and they won't stick with the old stage for most of the game.

I agree with reducing her effective HP. I disagree with reducing her speed. Speed matters way too much in this game. 10% would just make Wanda an obligate magiluminescence user, higher would make people only play middle-age Wanda. I'd instead reduce her effective max HP to 100 and slow aging over time to compensate (so that she dies from aging as slowly as she does now, but dies more easily from damage). 

8 hours ago, Sacco said:

WOLFGANG:

1) Make him lose mightiness on hit, just this.

It was a cool downside and not even that broken.

I recreated it with a mod and i find it pretty ok as a downside, to compensate i increased mightiness gained from hitting bosses to 1.5 (from 1).

This would make Wolfgang a bit different than wigfrid, the most famous tank.

Wolf would encourage a kiting method, which is riskier and harder to pull off but can pay off a lot due to his high damage.

Interesting concept, but it'd make getting stunlocked at all an instant death sentence for Wolfgang since he can't move when he changes mightiness states, so he'd be completely unable to escape if he got attacked by too many mobs at once. I'd say this is a decent idea if Klei changes that.

8 hours ago, Sacco said:

WURT:

1) Make it impossible to make any veggie food with non veggie ingredients.

As simple as that.

2) Make every plant not grow in winter.

Yes, these two changes would effect other characters, but i think they are very two needed changes for the game.

1: I do want a crock pot overhaul that makes the ingredients used actually matter, and Klei adding a system that makes Wurt refuse, say, something that had an egg in it would be a step in that direction. It also goes with her existing vegetarianism downside. Not a bad idea.

2: Hell to the no. That ruins so much for so many characters. What would farmer players even do in winter? What about winter-specific crop combos, why does that have to go out the window? This is far from a necessary change to the game, it's one that'd make winter almost as obnoxiously bad as summer. It also doesn't even nerf Wurt beyond the first winter (and she's already a character that isn't very strong until she's set lots of stuff up) since she can just put long-lasting veggies in a salt box in autumn and be good until spring anyway. 

8 hours ago, Sacco said:

WOODIE:

1) Tone down weremoose, making him lose 0.5 wereness per combo attack or reduce his combo damage to 119 alongside a regen nerf to 1 hp every 4 seconds, but make werebeaver mastery have a larger range with higher work and goose mastery halve the wereness penalty and make it more predictable, giving the player the ability to go to already discovered parts of the map.

No. Woodie does not need a nerf, period. He's perfectly balanced. Weremoose's downside is not being able to use items, which outright cripples you in multiple boss fights, and it also means you have to be way more careful about your health than a normal player since you can only regain it from regen. There is no boss outside of seasonal tier that you can face-tank as Weremoose. 
You can achieve Weremoose levels of damage reduction and outpace Weremoose levels of DPS as a normal character with a marble suit and a fresh ham bat, and you have as much HP as you have Pierogis, plus you can do things like pan flute enraged Dragonfly, teleport out of Fuelweaver's cages, or use a weather pain on spore caps.
Turning back to heal mid-raid boss isn't really viable solo since you're unarmored when you transform, so you can die in one hit while completely immobile in many cases. 

There's an argument to be made for buffing other masteries, but with how much of a combat focus the game's had recently, I don't think it'd be enough to make people pick other ones over Weremoose even if Weremoose was worse. There's simply more use-cases for Weremoose than Werebeaver or Weregoose. Beaver is used to mass-harvest resources whenever you run out from the last time you did it (an infrequent use case). Weregoose being able to fly anywhere Woodie's been would be a real draw for people who prefer normal combat, but it'd also make him yet another teleport character. 

[Cats_On_Fire]

5 hours ago, SSneaky said:

just make their hp be similar to pigmen by default.

1 hour ago, dst_lover said:

1 if this is her biggest downside this is literally nothing compared to characters that have worse then her 

2 she deals more damage then half of the characters 

3 and this is why I said nerf both wurt and his skill tree 

4 this is the best why to get both food and spots if you went to speed run a 60 or 80 merm houses you have to live like that

Craft it before 

Not to mention why is old Wanda have lower damage and slower hammering speed but not slower with mining or chopping or other things ?

You are just wrong 

I am not lying to myself when I say the game is easier now and its not that I am just become batter at the game because wurt literally with his shadow affinity make it so every merm twice as strong with infinite loyalty for free and with his shadow Mudslinger and how cheap it’s in for what it gives you and with other passive and extra perks in his skill tree in top of his perivos powers wurt literally becomes more powerful then before and the game becomes more easy then before

 

Idk who the hell is rushing 60-80 merm guards you can live off like 5 without the shadow affinity. Also wurt is a her. Though yes the shadow affinity needs to be reigned in a bit so I propose shadow merms only last 30 seconds to like 2 mins and then just disappear 

[dst_lover]

15 minutes ago, Cats_On_Fire said:

Idk who the hell is rushing 60-80 merm guards you can live off like 5 without the shadow affinity. Also wurt is a her. Though yes the shadow affinity needs to be reigned in a bit so I propose shadow merms only last 30 seconds to like 2 mins and then just disappear 

Me 

2 yes you can and this is why wurt skill tree need to be nerfed because now there is no big reason to have more merm houses like before

[Cats_On_Fire]

19 minutes ago, dst_lover said:

Me 

2 yes you can and this is why wurt skill tree need to be nerfed because now there is no big reason to have more merm houses like before

I mean idk why people see a problem with shadow merms just disappearing in 30 second to 2 mins. And just make the dreaded slinger different.

[dst_lover]

10 minutes ago, Cats_On_Fire said:

I mean idk why people see a problem with shadow merms just disappearing in 30 second to 2 mins. And just make the dreaded slinger different.

I just hate the idea because it’s literally will still be busted and free yes the loyalty part will disappear but it will still make you win 100% of the times of you have 20 merms

[Just Ragnar]

18 hours ago, Sacco said:

In original ds nothing could grow in winter and it was not a problem.

It won't be in dst either imo

In the original don't starve, the only characters with food restrictions could still survive off of eating meat. There are now characters with perks and downsides that rely on your ability to utilize plants. Disabling those abilities during winter will only make those characters worse or less interesting.

Wurt's merms shouldn't be nerfed, because then she'll just tame more of them, causing lag. I think Wurt's fine atm relative to other characters. 

[Sacco]

1 hour ago, Just Ragnar said:

In the original don't starve, the only characters with food restrictions could still survive off of eating meat. There are now characters with perks and downsides that rely on your ability to utilize plants. Disabling those abilities during winter will only make those characters worse or less interesting.

Wurt's merms shouldn't be nerfed, because then she'll just tame more of them, causing lag. I think Wurt's fine atm relative to other characters. 

she needs nerfs and you can't deny it.

Yea sure, my proposed changes might not be good, but she needs some tweaking.

[Just Ragnar]

39 minutes ago, SSneaky said:

Lol no.

 

7 minutes ago, Sacco said:

she needs nerfs and you can't deny it.

Yea sure, my proposed changes might not be good, but she needs some tweaking.

Could you give an example of how you would nerf Wurt and why that part you nerfed is currently problematic, and why your suggestion wouldn't cause more/same amount of problems?

I think the main problem with Wurt is that, either you remove some of her smaller perks which makes her less interesting, or you affect merms, which will just make her even more setup heavy because if merms are half as good, you'll just make 2x the merms.

Potentially, you could replace royal guard merm huts with a building that needs you to provide materials that turn the normal merms into royal guard merms, like barracks or something you need to fill like the shoddy tools.

[Sacco]

Just now, Just Ragnar said:

 

Could you give an example of how you would nerf Wurt and why that part you nerfed is currently problematic, and why your suggestion wouldn't cause more/same amount of problems?

I think the main problem with Wurt is that, either you remove some of her smaller perks which makes her less interesting, or you affect merms, which will just make her even more setup heavy because if merms are half as good, you'll just make 2x the merms.

Potentially, you could replace royal guard merm huts with a building that needs you to provide materials that turn the normal merms into royal guard merms, like barracks or something you need to fill like the shoddy tools.

i think nerfing wurt herself is better.

But if we want to nerf merms i think affinities have to be nerfed.

[Just Ragnar]

18 minutes ago, Sacco said:

i think nerfing wurt herself is better.

But if we want to nerf merms i think affinities have to be nerfed.

I think to nerf Wurt herself, i'd say it's best to make her downside more interesting. Maybe reducing or removing the extra hunger gain from veggies?

As for the affinities, I think making shadow merms temporary, refuelable with nightmare fuel and lunar merms slowly de-transform unless fed larger amounts of food than normal merms could work.