About the Setting and Suggestions for Modifying the Soul Jar

[adminaaassh]

The design of the Soul Jar is as follows: when Wortox dies, it will drop to the ground and cannot be stored in chests or other containers. Whether placed with a player, a monkey, or on the ground, it will lose Souls over time.

So far, it seems that no one has mentioned this design. However, for players who maintain long-term saves (e.g., 2000 days or more), I personally feel that this design is not very user-friendly. For long-term saves, players generally prefer characters like Winona or Wanda.
(Please don’t take this as a personal bias—think about whether the players you meet in long-term saves tend to choose these two characters most of the time.)

In my view, Wortox has the potential to become a character worth playing throughout the late game. However, the design of the Soul Jar losing Souls over time when placed on the ground makes this character unusually troublesome for long-term saves.

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First, if you want to choose this character, you must accumulate Souls. This means that every time you switch to this character in the world, you have to kill various creatures to obtain Souls, which is too tedious for long-term saves unless the time spent on other characters is very short.
For long-term saves, the cheapest options are usually Bees or Birchnutters, as I demonstrated in the video. However, in winter, obtaining Souls becomes a bit troublesome—Birchnut Trees won’t transform into Poison Birchnut Trees, and Bees won’t appear. You’d need to use a torch to burn the Bee Box, which I think is one of the reasons this character becomes more inconvenient.

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In summary, collecting Souls for long-term saves is quite troublesome. Every time you switch characters, you need to go to a specific place to farm Souls. You must constantly monitor your Soul count. Perhaps when playing this character, you need to develop a habit of killing any killable creatures around you, which is one of the character's inconvenient points.

Some might argue that when the entire map has been explored, the number of Souls consumed becomes relatively low. But in reality, Souls are Wortox's primary resource for mobility, and the consumption is quite high. My point is that players who choose this character often don’t walk or run normally; they tend to use the leap ability while exploring, leading to significant Soul consumption.
Additionally, how is underground map exploration calculated? Since the void areas in the caves are unwalkable, do they count towards map exploration? Would that lead to higher Soul consumption? On the surface, there are also areas without much exploration value, such as vast stretches of ocean filled with reefs.

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If you want to play Wortox in a long-term save, you may need to develop certain habits. For instance, you might need to set up Bee Boxes in specific locations (both above and below ground) so that you can regularly farm Souls whenever you switch back to Wortox. You might need to constantly kill creatures around you to ensure you have enough Souls and avoid wasting them unnecessarily. You must always pay attention to your Soul count. To improve Soul farming efficiency, you might need items from other characters, such as the Bramble Husk, Treeguard Idol, or Willow’s Lighter (which lasts longer than a torch). You’ll also have to endure the added inconvenience of collecting Souls in winter compared to other seasons. For example, if you run out of Souls, you might need to rush to a Bee Box or kill other creatures (Bees are likely the fastest source) to replenish them.

If you’re playing solo or with just a few players and need to switch characters, you must endure the fact that the Souls you’ve stored will gradually disappear while playing another character (e.g., you had five jars of Souls, but they all disappeared over time because the server only has a few players, and switching characters is necessary for tasks). Unless your switching intervals are short, bringing more jars to maintain your Soul supply means sacrificing inventory space.
Of course, this applies to long-term saves. In short-term saves (e.g., around 200 days or slightly more), this issue may not be as significant.

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Suggestions

I would like to propose some suggestions. Perhaps the crafting cost of the Soul Jar could be increased, such as requiring three Empty Bottles, more Red Gems, or other materials. In return, the Soul Jar would no longer lose Souls. Alternatively, a skill could be introduced to prevent the jar from losing Souls, allowing the jar to be stored, similar to how Winona’s Spotlight provides warmth. Other balancing changes could also be made accordingly.

 

I’m not good at English, so I used ChatGPT for translation. I hope everyone can understand. If there’s anything you’d like to say or suggest, feel free to let me know. Below is the original text in Chinese.

[Chubbylicious]

I love your idea, it's very insightful! I was thinking in using the soul jar as a storage for late game boss battles, so I wouldn't need to farm everytime before some boss. Also, making the soul jars able to be stored in chests will feel amazing for those who like base building, since it would declutter the ground of your base

[salty_cookie]

Please allow jars to be stored in chests and backpacks 

[Gashzer]

I propose a soul jar jar which is a jar to store your soul jars that prevents them leaking souls. To balance this however the soul jar jar slowly leaks soul jars overtime...

 

 

 

 

 

[salty_cookie]

Could you solve it by placing it into soul jar jar jar?

15 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

soul jar jar slowly leaks slow jars overtime...

 

[Gashzer]

17 minutes ago, salty_cookie said:

Could you solve it by placing it into soul jar jar jar?

 

Wow thats a real novel idea! Need to balance it somehow tho...

[adminaaassh]

The Soul Jar cannot be placed in any container, such as chests or backpacks. If it is in the inventory of another character or a Powder Monkey, it will also lose Souls over time (just like when placed on the ground). Additionally, I discovered a bug: a Soul Jar stolen during a Pirate Raid will disappear from the world and won’t appear in the Pirate Stash. Another bug is that if a Soul Jar is placed on the ground, Wortox will be unable to store Souls in it. Interestingly, a Soul Jar on the ground cannot be stolen by Splumonkeys, but they may occasionally steal the Souls inside and release them.

[salty_cookie]

Just allow soul jars into containers

[adminaaassh]

25 minutes ago, salty_cookie said:

Just allow soul jars into containers

Personally, I think the key point is to enable Souls to be preserved. However, your idea inspired me—perhaps a unique mechanism could be designed specifically for the Krampus Sack, allowing it to store the Soul Jar and preserve Souls. Thinking about it, Wortox is part of the Krampus race, so it might make sense for him to have such a special interaction. This would also give more purpose to the otherwise often-unused Krampus Sacks that tend to accumulate in long-term saves.

[salty_cookie]

I believe the best solution is in this case is the easiest one. Allowing you to store soul jars in containers isnt going to break the balance, you can already store bundeled critters. But the krampus sack having a special interaction idea is good but maybe not with jars but with something else.

[Dingle]

Upping the price of soul jars sounds terrible. Especially making it take more bottles. I'm fine with the leaking.

Wortox kills spiders fast now. Those are year round.

Edit: Oh, and bats. Easy replenishment as you hop around the map. That is a common winter trick. I also like leaving killer bees alive, who are still active in winter.

[adminaaassh]

12 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Upping the price of soul jars sounds terrible. Especially making it take more bottles. I'm fine with the leaking.

Wortox kills spiders fast now. Those are year round.

Edit: Oh, and bats. Easy replenishment as you hop around the map. That is a common winter trick. I also like leaving killer bees alive, who are still active in winter.

In my post, I’ve already explained that I understand obtaining Souls isn’t difficult, but having to replenish them every time I switch to Wortox is quite tedious. What I’m suggesting is primarily aimed at long-term saves. With the current design, choosing Wortox isn’t a very practical option for such saves. If you’re only playing for a limited number of days, this might not be a problem. However, I’m looking for a more balanced and endgame-friendly adjustment because this character has significant potential in late-game scenarios.

Additionally, for long-term saves, spiders and bats aren’t the best choice for farming Souls. I’ve already mentioned the fastest method in the post, which you might want to check out. In long-term saves, some players will choose Webber and use the Razor to remove all Spider Dens on the map, both above ground and underground.

The method you mentioned highlights the exact inconvenience I’m trying to address—it requires constant interactions with various other creatures. And every time you switch back to Wortox, you need to start over, which becomes increasingly tedious in the long run.

[aidankocherhans]

15 minutes ago, Dingle said:

Upping the price of soul jars sounds terrible. Especially making it take more bottles. I'm fine with the leaking.

Wortox kills spiders fast now. Those are year round.

Edit: Oh, and bats. Easy replenishment as you hop around the map. That is a common winter trick. I also like leaving killer bees alive, who are still active in winter.

Any bee hive works in winter, you just need to wack it to make the bees come out

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, adminaaassh said:

In my post, I’ve already explained that I understand obtaining Souls isn’t difficult, but having to replenish them every time I switch to Wortox is quite tedious. What I’m suggesting is primarily aimed at long-term saves. With the current design, choosing Wortox isn’t a very practical option for such saves. If you’re only playing for a limited number of days, this might not be a problem. However, I’m looking for a more balanced and endgame-friendly adjustment because this character has significant potential in late-game scenarios.

Additionally, for long-term saves, spiders and bats aren’t the best choice for farming Souls. I’ve already mentioned the fastest method in the post, which you might want to check out. In long-term saves, some players will choose Webber and use the Razor to remove all Spider Dens on the map, both above ground and underground.

The method you mentioned highlights the exact inconvenience I’m trying to address—it requires constant interactions with various other creatures. And every time you switch back to Wortox, you need to start over, which becomes increasingly tedious in the long run.

Ah but you fail to see the entire concept of wortox's skilltree. You want to hoard souls which makes you naughty. But no matter how greedy you get you can't have it all!

You are forced to choose between hoarding souls safely in your inventory but taking up space or get punished by trying to have it all by dropping the soul jars on the ground and having them leak.

I believe this is deliberately and hilariously planned by klei 

[adminaaassh]

6 minutes ago, Gashzer said:

Ah but you fail to see the entire concept of wortox's skilltree. You want to hoard souls which makes you naughty. But no matter how greedy you get you can't have it all!

You are forced to choose between hoarding souls safely in your inventory but taking up space or get punished by trying to have it all by dropping the soul jars on the ground and having them leak.

I believe this is deliberately and hilariously planned by klei 

That’s exactly why I made my suggestions—to pursue better balance. As I’ve mentioned earlier, this could be achieved by introducing new mechanics, adjusting crafting recipes, modifying abilities, or adding other features. The goal is to make Wortox more balanced and suitable for the late game without overly affecting the early game. I believe there are plenty of ways to accomplish this.

I understand your perspective—you think the current design is reasonable and doesn’t require significant changes. But have you considered the different usability of the character in early and late-game scenarios? And do you believe there might be adjustments that could make Wortox better suited to those phases? I think this is a line of thought missing in your current argument.

Balancing a character isn’t just about whether they work in the present system but also about how they fit into the progression and play style across the lifespan of a save. A good balance ensures the character remains viable and enjoyable from the start to the end of a playthrough.

[Dingle]

3 minutes ago, aidankocherhans said:

Any bee hive works in winter, you just need to wack it to make the bees come out

Sure, I prefer killer bees for ease of running around and gathering them. Also not having to worry about healing the hives.

 

7 minutes ago, adminaaassh said:

In my post, I’ve already explained that I understand obtaining Souls isn’t difficult, but having to replenish them every time I switch to Wortox is quite tedious. What I’m suggesting is primarily aimed at long-term saves. With the current design, choosing Wortox isn’t a very practical option for such saves. If you’re only playing for a limited number of days, this might not be a problem. However, I’m looking for a more balanced and endgame-friendly adjustment because this character has significant potential in late-game scenarios.

Additionally, for long-term saves, spiders and bats aren’t the best choice for farming Souls. I’ve already mentioned the fastest method in the post, which you might want to check out. In long-term saves, some players will choose Webber and use the Razor to remove all Spider Dens on the map, both above ground and underground

Spiders seem faster to me than what you were doing in video.

"Endgame friendly" seems pretty bad if it punishes people that don't play for 2000 days.

[aidankocherhans]

I think jars leaking is necessary for wortox for balance and to preserve the essence of his character. Maybe it's a problem for swapping if too many skills are reliant on having jars filled with excess souls, but it doesn't take that long to get as many souls as you'll need just for regular use. Wortox has to kill frequently to survive, I think that's a core part of his character, and there are plenty of things to kill in winter if you look beyond bee boxes specifically (with the soul damage skill farming will be super quick regardless of what you fight)

You don't really need the enemy spawner to be at your base, you can spend a few to get somewhere that'll give you a ton

3 minutes ago, adminaaassh said:

That’s exactly why I made my suggestions—to pursue better balance. As I’ve mentioned earlier, this could be achieved by introducing new mechanics, adjusting crafting recipes, modifying abilities, or adding other features. The goal is to make Wortox more balanced and suitable for the late game without overly affecting the early game. I believe there are plenty of ways to accomplish this.

I understand your perspective—you think the current design is reasonable and doesn’t require significant changes. But have you considered the different usability of the character in early and late-game scenarios? And do you believe there might be adjustments that could make Wortox better suited to those phases? I think this is a line of thought missing in your current argument.

Balancing a character isn’t just about whether they work in the present system but also about how they fit into the progression and play style across the lifespan of a save. A good balance ensures the character remains viable and enjoyable from the start to the end of a playthrough.

I don't think the issue you're discussing is really an issue for long term saves, but an issue for players that frequently swap characters, which is still a concern but not really the same thing

[Gashzer]

7 minutes ago, adminaaassh said:

That’s exactly why I made my suggestions—to pursue better balance. As I’ve mentioned earlier, this could be achieved by introducing new mechanics, adjusting crafting recipes, modifying abilities, or adding other features. The goal is to make Wortox more balanced and suitable for the late game without overly affecting the early game. I believe there are plenty of ways to accomplish this.

I understand your perspective—you think the current design is reasonable and doesn’t require significant changes. But have you considered the different usability of the character in early and late-game scenarios? And do you believe there might be adjustments that could make Wortox better suited to those phases? I think this is a line of thought missing in your current argument.

Balancing a character isn’t just about whether they work in the present system but also about how they fit into the progression and play style across the lifespan of a save. A good balance ensures the character remains viable and enjoyable from the start to the end of a playthrough.

 

You need less inventory space in the late game. So you can afford to carry more soul jars.

Just carry 5-8 soul jars on your person and use krampus sack for general stuff. 

Your base will have loads of infinite storage, lots of food in polar ice bin to feed yourself. 

Late game is balanced for wortox. It's the early game that punishes wortox players for soul hoarding.

[adminaaassh]

2 hours ago, adminaaassh said:

If you want to play Wortox in a long-term save, you may need to develop certain habits. For instance, you might need to set up Bee Boxes in specific locations (both above and below ground) so that you can regularly farm Souls whenever you switch back to Wortox. You might need to constantly kill creatures around you to ensure you have enough Souls and avoid wasting them unnecessarily. You must always pay attention to your Soul count. To improve Soul farming efficiency, you might need items from other characters, such as the Bramble Husk, Treeguard Idol, or Willow’s Lighter (which lasts longer than a torch). You’ll also have to endure the added inconvenience of collecting Souls in winter compared to other seasons. For example, if you run out of Souls, you might need to rush to a Bee Box or kill other creatures (Bees are likely the fastest source) to replenish them.

If you’re playing solo or with just a few players and need to switch characters, you must endure the fact that the Souls you’ve stored will gradually disappear while playing another character (e.g., you had five jars of Souls, but they all disappeared over time because the server only has a few players, and switching characters is necessary for tasks). Unless your switching intervals are short, bringing more jars to maintain your Soul supply means sacrificing inventory space.
Of course, this applies to long-term saves. In short-term saves (e.g., around 200 days or slightly more), this issue may not be as significant.

[Gashzer]

1 minute ago, adminaaassh said:

But you answered your own question. In long-term worlds when you need to swap characters, yes you will need to farm souls again after swapping back to wortox but character swapping also speeds up soul farming by magnitudes!

Winona's catapults or bramble husks plus a big spider farm will make it insanely easy to fill the soul jars back up again.

[Dingle]

You don't even need bramble husks anymore. Get soul piercing and soul hop around to run the souls into spiders. You can get an AVALANCHE of souls chasing you, killing all spiders in its path.

The above is why I found this post so confusing.

[adminaaassh]

5 minutes ago, Dingle said:

You don't even need bramble husks anymore. Get soul piercing and soul hop around to run the souls into spiders. You can get an AVALANCHE of souls chasing you, killing all spiders in its path.

The above is why I found this post so confusing.

I hope you can test the efficiency yourself to see which method is faster—this is just my personal suggestion.

Regarding spiders, they emerge from Spider Dens, which can upgrade over time and spawn Yellow Spiders or even a Spider Queen. Of course, we can use the Den Decorating Set to manage this, but when attacking spiders, maintaining proper distance is crucial. These conclusions are based on thorough testing.

By conducting your own experiments, you might gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and nuances involved, especially when dealing with the late-game mechanics or optimizing resource collection strategies.

[Bumber64]

You should probably just use all your souls before you swap. Not like you could even keep them beyond dying before. Jars are strictly a buff.

Used to need to bundle bees (bundlebees, hyuyu). Now that's optional.

[adminaaassh]

In my personal opinion, I believe Wortox has the potential to be as viable a choice as Winona or Wanda in terms of both utility and playtime, regardless of whether it’s early or late game. However, the current mechanic where the Soul Jar leaks Souls eliminates this possibility.

As a long-term save player, I can confidently say that without changes, this character’s usage duration in mid- to ultra-long-term saves will undoubtedly fall short compared to Winona or Wanda. That’s why I proposed my suggestions.

I believe that with just a few adjustments, Wortox could become better suited to the overall gameplay experience, both in the early and late game. These changes would not only enhance his appeal but also align him more closely with the balance and design philosophy that makes characters like Winona and Wanda so enduringly viable.

 

[Dingle]

2 minutes ago, adminaaassh said:

I hope you can test the efficiency yourself to see which method is faster—this is just my personal suggestion.

Regarding spiders, they emerge from Spider Dens, which can upgrade over time and spawn Yellow Spiders or even a Spider Queen. Of course, we can use the Den Decorating Set to manage this, but when attacking spiders, maintaining proper distance is crucial. These conclusions are based on thorough testing.

By conducting your own experiments, you might gain a deeper understanding of the challenges and nuances involved, especially when dealing with the late-game mechanics or optimizing resource collection strategies.

Spider method is faster than what you were showing. Vastly. You should do some testing.

For Spider Queens, I can test this later, but I assume THE AVALANCHE will kill her. That or I can just teleport away from spider queens and ignore them. As a scholar, you must know they just turn into spider nests after awhile.